Saints fans fuming over free kick count

[kosifantutti]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... vbq50.html

[Con Gorozidis]

I am sick of being bent over by city hall and copping it meekly.

[Johnny Member]

The free kick 'count' is not the problem.

Referring to the count, diminishes the argument, as the count is not meant to be even. An even count does not equate to good umpiring, nor does an uneven count mean that the umpiring was poor.



Was the umpiring bad?
Was it bias to one side?
Were they consistent with their interpretations for both sides?


Just looking at the count doesn't address the real issue, and makes it appear to be an ill informed, emotive argument.

[White Winmar]

151-54 count against us in our last five outings over there against WCE. They're not that good and we're not that bad. It does suggest something, as our free kick count against Freo over there is not as lopsided. Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

[Johnny Member]

The free kick could be 28-0 and the umpiring could have been excellent.

[Con Gorozidis]

The free kick could be 28-0 and the umpiring could have been excellent.

As a one off sure. In theory.
But this has been going on for years

https://thearcfooty.com/2016/04/24/whic ... ree-kicks/

http://thearcfooty.com/2016/04/23/freekicksathome/

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/free-k ... 154b9f82e3

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/t ... cedb3bd45c

[6621104]

The free kick could be 28-0 and the umpiring could have been excellent.

nonsense, such an unlikely result makes bias and corruption a more likely explanation.

[mullet]

The free kick could be 28-0 and the umpiring could have been excellent.

Agree, its not the count its the bad decisions. There were a lot of bad decisions and inconsistent decisions and a lot of no decision when there should of been.

You are right the count shouldnt matter, but the quality of umpiring should

[Johnny Member]

The free kick could be 28-0 and the umpiring could have been excellent.

nonsense, such an unlikely result makes bias and corruption a more likely explanation.

Exactly.

The count itself isn't the issue - its whether or not the umpiring was good.


The count itself isn't cause for complaint. What should the umpires do? Check the count at half time and umpire poorly in order to even the count?


The headlines about Saints fans being upset about the count, demeans the discussion about incompetent umpiring and/cheating.

[spert]

Lopsided as a count of frees, but we had a good start, and the chance to win for two weeks in row and failed when pressure was put on, and that's the worry.

The team stats sum it up- we lost in most areas except hit outs, clearances(won by 1), and tackles.

Basically not enough players are getting enough of the ball, and although WCE got some easy frees, we fell down as team in the end.

Quite a few players need to improve their consistency over four quarters.

[saynta]

Was the umpiring bad?
Was it bias to one side?
Were they consistent with their interpretations for both sides?

Yes
Yes,
No

[BigMart]

So in a half of footy at afl speed

WC gave away two frees?!

[longtimesaint]

Were these WA based umpires or just intimidated by the crowd?

[Johnny Member]

So in a half of footy at afl speed

WC gave away two frees?!

Looking at the free kick count doesn't answer that question.

[st.byron]

Astonishing to me - and it pisses me off mightily - that the 'extra man' WCE has at Subiaco hasn't been addressed by the AFL or the umpiring department.

23 - 8. Just a continuation of the same old story that's been going on for years at Subiaco. WCE are by miles the team with the most favourable free kick count. Year after year the lopsided free count in their favour just carries on and it's never addressed.

The figures from the last ten years tell it all. It's not just a one off thing and it's not just us getting bent over. Really a disgrace.

[stevie]

The deliberate against Thompsons of Roos before was shocking. Spoilt a good game

[Con Gorozidis]

The main issues and inconsistencies were:

1) We tackle them and they drop it - play on.
2) We tackle them and they duck - round the neck
3) They tackle us and we duck - play on.
4) They tackle us - holding the ball.
5) They push us in the back - mark paid
6) We push them in the back - in the back to them.
7) We kick it OOB - deliberate
8) They kick it OOB - throw-in.

All these things eventually affect the psyche of the players - because they have 100% confidence they can attack a contest without any fear of giving away a free and we go in to the contest waiting for the whistle. The players are human. We cant pretend it doesnt start to affect them mentally by the 2nd half.

[SaintPav]

The main issues and inconsistencies were:

1) We tackle them and they drop it - play on.
2) We tackle them and they duck - round the neck
3) They tackle us and we duck - play on.
4) They tackle us - holding the ball.
5) They push us in the back - mark paid
6) We push them in the back - in the back to them.
7) We kick it OOB - deliberate
8) They kick it OOB - throw-in.

All these things eventually affect the psyche of the players - because they have 100% confidence they can attack a contest without any fear of giving away a free and we go in to the contest waiting for the whistle. The players are human. We cant pretend it doesnt start to affect them mentally by the 2nd half.

Nice.

+1

[Impatient Sainter]

Is it corruption or just incompetence that the umpires are so affected by the WCE manic crowd. Even the 3rd umpire got the Weller goal wrong, there is no way he could tell that ball was definitely touched.

[kosifantutti]

Although I posted the link I agree with JM. You need to analyse each decision the umpires make and decide if they did a good job or not.

Lots of things they do have nothing to do with free kick count. Marks paid, 50s, use of advantage, review of goals, setting the mark etc. They can all impact a game but don't change the free kick count.

But try getting some traction with a headline that says "After a thorough analysis of the game, Saints fans believe they were disadvantaged by the umpires"

People will always hang their hat on the free kick count as a measure of umpire bias. It's not accurate but it's easy to use.

[SaintPav]

Maybe but 13 to 1 is ridiculous, particularly if you are dominating the game.

It's a good heuristic.

[saynta]

Maybe but 13 to 1 is ridiculous, particularly if you are dominating the game.

It's a good heuristic.

Yep

And go f*** yourself Robbo you fat baldheaded clown.

We will stop whinging when the AFL gives us a fair go.

From the hun.

"6. SHUT IT, SAINTS

Stop whingeing, Saints fans. They can be annoyed with the free kick count — it was 23-8 — but reality is they lost the game in front of goal. St Kilda’s 48 per cent accuracy in shots at goal failed miserably against West Coast’s 69 per cent. That was the game. The Saints might also need to tempo their crazy intensity across four quarters. By the last quarter on Saturday they looked exhausted and West Coast’s numbers of +50 disposals, +7 contested possessions, +46 uncontested possessions and +8 inside 50s meant they outscored St Kilda by 25 points."

[Sainter_Dad]

Is it corruption or just incompetence that the umpires are so affected by the WCE manic crowd. Even the 3rd umpire got the Weller goal wrong, there is no way he could tell that ball was definitely touched.

It is possible - they would be viewing the 'raw' feed - ie without the overlay in the corner that obscured our view, so they could have seen what we could not on the screen.

[White Winmar]

The free kick could be 28-0 and the umpiring could have been excellent.

Really? Could have been, but in the real world, wouldn't be.

[White Winmar]

[quote="Johnny Member"][quote="BigMart"]So in a half of footy at afl speed

WC gave away two frees?![/quote]


Looking at the free kick count doesn't answer that question.[/quote]
Certainly not to someone who doesn't understand the game.