Big Boy McEVOY.

[saynta]

Tell me why we shipped him off to Hawthorn again?

[bigcarl]

Bloody good player who reeks of leadership. I never liked the idea of him going.

Refresh my memory, was that another Felchen masterstroke?

[skeptic]

Oh please.

He got what 4 more possessions than a second game ruck and less ball than Marshall

His best rucking performance of the year against 2 players with a combined 10 games btw them

Had career of being outmuscled and outpointed by the best rucks in the league and it being covered up by a supreme Hawks midfield or whoever the other Hawks big man was.

If he stayed with us and remained the best of a bad bunch with a Bruce or Gilbert backing him up, he’d have had a more blatantly mediocre career

[Wayne42]

Was it when those brilliant recruiters, Pelican and Brains, came up with a strategy to trade good players for first round picks so that we could have multiple first round picks and rebuild with quality.

We succeeded in trading out some good players, unfortunately, we weren't capable of drafting quality back into the club.

[bigcarl]

Kicked two crucial goals last night and has developed into one of the league’s better ruckmen. What is he? A dual premiership player now?

[ace]

Tell me why we shipped him off to Hawthorn again?

He could not run, waddled like a duck rocking from side to side. Some call it lumbering.
He could not win a hitout because he was more intent on wrestling his opponent, never went for the ball.

Hawthorn got him fit and has made him run. They have developed him into a mobile ruckman who can take marks around the ground and win hitouts to advantage.

[bergsone]

Tell me why we shipped him off to Hawthorn again?

He could not run, waddled like a duck rocking from side to side. Some call it lumbering.
He could not win a hitout because he was more intent on wrestling his opponent, never went for the ball.

Hawthorn got him fit and has made him run. They have developed him into a mobile ruckman who can take marks around the ground and win hitouts to advantage.

We havent got a great record developing players have we

[scallopsroe]

Tell me why we shipped him off to Hawthorn again?

He could not run, waddled like a duck rocking from side to side. Some call it lumbering.
He could not win a hitout because he was more intent on wrestling his opponent, never went for the ball.

Hawthorn got him fit and has made him run. They have developed him into a mobile ruckman who can take marks around the ground and win hitouts to advantage.

We havent got a great record developing players have we

Spot on Champ!!

[mr six o'clock]

Tell me why we shipped him off to Hawthorn again?

He could not run, waddled like a duck rocking from side to side. Some call it lumbering.
He could not win a hitout because he was more intent on wrestling his opponent, never went for the ball.

Hawthorn got him fit and has made him run. They have developed him into a mobile ruckman who can take marks around the ground and win hitouts to advantage.

We havent got a great record developing players have we

Spot on Champ!!

Yes
I'd like to ship Goddard to the hawks for a year or two.
He would come back an all australian backman.

[ROLS-LEE]

More disappointed that we didnt give Tom Lynch a fair go TBH.

[chico2001]

Oh please.

He got what 4 more possessions than a second game ruck and less ball than Marshall

His best rucking performance of the year against 2 players with a combined 10 games btw them

Had career of being outmuscled and outpointed by the best rucks in the league and it being covered up by a supreme Hawks midfield or whoever the other Hawks big man was.

If he stayed with us and remained the best of a bad bunch with a Bruce or Gilbert backing him up, he’d have had a more blatantly mediocre career

Got no choice to say that those comments are rubbish. He was a good ruckman when he left the saints, averages shy of a goal a game, can take a big mark...FFS I wonder if some of you guys know anything about football. Yet you will praise up B graders like Dunstan, Gilbert and Armo. We got Dunstan and savage for him by the way. Go figure

[Raph Goat Clarke]

I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.

[Toy Saint]

Think we got Savage and a draft pick, possibly turned out to be McKenzie.

He's always been a strong mark, had good endurance and an average tap ruckman.

Hawks have a coach who can identify talent and utilize it to advantage.

[Shaggy]

I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.

McEvoy was a very good player for the Saints and was talked about as a future captain. He was always elite for marking around the ground and as a runner.

He was denigrated on Saintsational because of his hit-outs but he was always worthy of a number 9 draft pick.

He went to Hawthorn because he was the missing link for their premiership team whilst we wanted new blood for later because we were going downhill.

I think it has been shown that we made a big mistake.

[takeaway]

Think we got Savage and a draft pick, possibly turned out to be McKenzie.

He's always been a strong mark, had good endurance and an average tap ruckman.

Hawks have a coach who can identify talent and utilize it to advantage.

We got Savage & Picks 18 & 19, for which we got Dunstan & Acres.
Lost a pick in the 20's and a late pick, I think.

I recall as you say he has always been a good mark, average tap ruckman, but has improved in all facets with Hawthorn as he matured more. Was 24 when he left Saints, so young for a ruckman.

For us Savage has been servicable, Dunstan started well but has stagnated at present, and Acres needs a consistent run at it, both still pretty young though - next 3-4 years will sort them out one way or the other. Hopefully Dunstan can regain his early form, and Acres could be anything.

[skeptic]

Very selective memories here for some... I guess the grass really is always greener.

With McEvoy we had the same problem as with Hickey... Ben was monstered in the middle and decent around the ground... granted certainly better than Hickey at this point.

The majority here were really frustrated with him

It’s pure fantasy to suggest otherwise. He was being smashed by 18 yo kids for goodness sake

Heck we were all laughing at the trade a few years ago when Hickey I think climbed all over him.

Hawthorn have been really clever in how they used him... they put him in positions where they could make the most of his marking and protected him from being smashed in the middle by having tap speacilists.

He’s been shown up a number times at Hawthorn the last few years too... was absolutely smashed in one of their last finals... forget the game (Bulldogs?). I started a thread at the time.

In fairness to McEvoy, he’s gotten better over time but he only looks as good because of the team around him. If he stayed with us he would not have anywhere near the reputation he has now.

Good example of a player used within his limitations - if anything that’s what we should be talking about

What a silly revisionist thread

[spert]

Looked like just another McEvoy game to me, as he played when with us- took a couple of strong marks, did a couple of smart things, but didn't really do that well against a couple of inexperienced players in the ruck. He was never a very effective first ruck, and was better as a backup ruck/ forward..what the Hawks needed at the time.

[skeptic]

I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.

McEvoy was a very good player for the Saints and was talked about as a future captain. He was always elite for marking around the ground and as a runner.

He was denigrated on Saintsational because of his hit-outs but he was always worthy of a number 9 draft pick.

He went to Hawthorn because he was the missing link for their premiership team whilst we wanted new blood for later because we were going downhill.

I think it has been shown that we made a big mistake.

I don’t see it personally...

McEvoy stays at St. Kilda. Remains the primary ruck... gets regularly exposed in the middle. Can’t really play another position. We can’t play Hickey/Longer in the same team as him. The back up rucks end being Bruce, GIlbert etc

Seems to me that we’re more or less in the same spot as now but without Savage, Dunstan or Acres... it’s not the traders fault that we can’t develop players. It’s a good deal

[SydneySainter]

I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.

McEvoy was a very good player for the Saints and was talked about as a future captain. He was always elite for marking around the ground and as a runner.

He was denigrated on Saintsational because of his hit-outs but he was always worthy of a number 9 draft pick.

He went to Hawthorn because he was the missing link for their premiership team whilst we wanted new blood for later because we were going downhill.

I think it has been shown that we made a big mistake.

I don’t see it personally...

McEvoy stays at St. Kilda. Remains the primary ruck... gets regularly exposed in the middle. Can’t really play another position. We can’t play Hickey/Longer in the same team as him. The back up rucks end being Bruce, GIlbert etc

Seems to me that we’re more or less in the same spot as now but without Savage, Dunstan or Acres... it’s not the traders fault that we can’t develop players. It’s a good deal

I used it see it that way, now I'm not so sure.

Neither Hickey nor Longer have made the primary ruck role their own, despite each being given plenty of chances. Savage is a role-player at best and Dunstan, while he's tough, he's also pretty one-dimensional and I think we may have already seen his best.

Even Acres has taken a step back this year, but admittedly been injured.

[saynta]

Pretty simple to me. Big boy plays for us last Saturday night, and not the Hawks. We win.

[skeptic]

Well that is simple

And just so I’m clear... you’re the guy that has lamented drafting McEvoy and previously hammered home the point that drafting McEvoy ahead of Cyril cost us two flags right?

That is you isn’ it Saynta

[skeptic]

I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.

McEvoy was a very good player for the Saints and was talked about as a future captain. He was always elite for marking around the ground and as a runner.

He was denigrated on Saintsational because of his hit-outs but he was always worthy of a number 9 draft pick.

He went to Hawthorn because he was the missing link for their premiership team whilst we wanted new blood for later because we were going downhill.

I think it has been shown that we made a big mistake.

I don’t see it personally...

McEvoy stays at St. Kilda. Remains the primary ruck... gets regularly exposed in the middle. Can’t really play another position. We can’t play Hickey/Longer in the same team as him. The back up rucks end being Bruce, GIlbert etc

Seems to me that we’re more or less in the same spot as now but without Savage, Dunstan or Acres... it’s not the traders fault that we can’t develop players. It’s a good deal

I used it see it that way, now I'm not so sure.

Neither Hickey nor Longer have made the primary ruck role their own, despite each being given plenty of chances. Savage is a role-player at best and Dunstan, while he's tough, he's also pretty one-dimensional and I think we may have already seen his best.

Even Acres has taken a step back this year, but admittedly been injured.

I don’t disagree but does that make the trade bad?

If Hickey was playing 2016 form (a player not involved in that trade) does that make the trade better?

What if we had a better coach that better developed our players and we smashed the midfield.

It’s a straw man argument and it doesn’t hold up. You can’t have the results that you can’t predict advise the outcome. If we had recruited 3 Dusty Martin’s with those picks the actual trade is no different then if we recruited 3 Shane Savages

[saynta]

Was it when those brilliant recruiters, Pelican and Brains, came up with a strategy to trade good players for first round picks so that we could have multiple first round picks and rebuild with quality.

We succeeded in trading out some good players, unfortunately, we weren't capable of drafting quality back into the club.

Ain't that the truth. You have to wonder if pelican s*** was working for us or still working for the Hawks.

He certainly fixed up their ruck problem, which enabled them to win a couple of flags. Prick.

[Scollop]

Tell me why we shipped him off to Hawthorn again?

Clarko identified Ben as a player who had potential. We got a pretty good deal out of it and it was up to the Saints to get their recruiting and development right. The Hawthorn coach utilised Ben's strengths and didn't try and re-invent him. Ben has elite fitness and endurance and can be damaging with his overhead contested marking.

Tom Hickey was 8th in our Best and Fairest in 2016 and his fitness, contested marking and his goal kicking were all on an upward trajectory. Richo destroyed Tom's confidence after a few rounds into 2017 and Richo has a tendancy to scapegoat players and blame his players rather than working to their strengths. The Pierce/Marshall combination is more an aciident rather than good development and coaching ( and definitely our best option going forward ).

I agree with a few others that have suggested the trade was a good one. Our football development and our coaching is one of the reasons St Kilda are not higher up the ladder

[saynta]

Tell me why we shipped him off to Hawthorn again?

Clarko identified Ben as a player who had potential. We got a pretty good deal out of it and it was up to the Saints to get their recruiting and development right. The Hawthorn coach utilised Ben's strengths and didn't try and re-invent him. Ben has elite fitness and endurance and can be damaging with his overhead contested marking.

Tom Hickey was 8th in our Best and Fairest in 2016 and his fitness, contested marking and his goal kicking were all on an upward trajectory. Richo destroyed Tom's confidence after a few rounds into 2017 and Richo has a tendancy to scapegoat players and blame his players rather than working to their strengths. The Pierce/Marshall combination is more an aciident rather than good development and coaching ( and definitely our best option going forward ).

I agree with a few others that have suggested the trade was a good one. Our football development and our coaching is one of the reasons St Kilda are not higher up the ladder

In hindsight it was a rotten trade imho, but I am fully aware of alternative views.

I think the greater football public would agree with me.