Ratten and perspective ...

[Saintmatt]

''To put yourself out there - we've got to do that to have success as a person or a player or a club - so from that point of view I really enjoyed the challenge whether we won, lost or drew today. It was very enjoyable,'' he (Ratten) said. The Age - 22/7/19

I think this is a really important quote in giving some insight into our caretaker coach.

One of the things that I think has happened over the past 18-24 months with Richo is that we've become so insular. So conservative. If you could sum up our 'style' during that period it would be - don't play to win; play not to lose. All that mentality does is help you to not lose too heavily. Rarely however, does it allow you to win.

As a result - Richo's demeanor has become increasingly dour and devoid of any positive personality trait. Many times when listening/watching him in the media I wondered what he was doing in the senior coaching job because he definitely did not look like he was enjoying himself. In the context of the quote - it became apparent that Richo (and our players) weren't putting themselves "out there". And now we have Ratten.

Just the joy that the players showed upon returning to the rooms yesterday was fantastic - and Ratten was in the middle of the water dousing. It may just have been the sugar hit of having a new voice or the shadow of impending professional death being lifted but they looked different. It was a noticeably different energy on the ground.

And clearly the horrible life experience that Ratten has experienced with the death of his Son a couple of years back can surely bring greater perspective to a job that can often become all consuming.

If indeed the club was preparing to run a boat race with the ultimate covert aim of installing Brad Scott - my hope is that Ratten makes that process and strategy nigh on impossible to achieve.

[barneyboyz]

I've been thinking for a while now, that Richo started games with the right intentions, but when the fan started spraying shyte this was when he would revert to natural negative tendancies.

I thought alot of Rat's as Carlton's coach and thought he was very stiff. I think he would be a very suitable coach of the Saints, if chosen

[shanegrambeau]

I thought alot of Rat's as Carlton's coach and thought he was very stiff.

Agreed, but just speaking through the “perspective” window we have to remember that Ratten and Scott shared an almost identical 50% win/loss ratio for an extended period as senior coaches.

[thejiggingsaint]

I thought alot of Rat's as Carlton's coach and thought he was very stiff.

Agreed, but just speaking through the “perspective” window we have to remember that Ratten and Scott shared an almost identical 50% win/loss ratio for an extended period as senior coaches.

Fair comment re "perspective" about Scott and Ratten's "almost identical 50% win/loss ratio" as senior Coaches............ However, I would add this rider: Scott had twice the amount of seasons (2009-2019) that Ratten had at Carlton (2007-2012) In my humble opinion, that makes a WEE bit of difference!!

[saynta]

I thought alot of Rat's as Carlton's coach and thought he was very stiff.

Agreed, but just speaking through the “perspective” window we have to remember that Ratten and Scott shared an almost identical 50% win/loss ratio for an extended period as senior coaches.

Fair comment re "perspective" about Scott and Ratten's "almost identical 50% win/loss ratio" as senior Coaches............ However, I would add this rider: Scott had twice the amount of seasons (2009-2019) that Ratten had at Carlton (2007-2012) In my humble opinion, that makes a WEE bit of difference!!

Scott also had a better side, as proven when mickie milkshake failed.

[DownAtTheJunction]

I thought alot of Rat's as Carlton's coach and thought he was very stiff.

Agreed, but just speaking through the “perspective” window we have to remember that Ratten and Scott shared an almost identical 50% win/loss ratio for an extended period as senior coaches.

A win loss ratio can distort a coach’s ability. I doubt any coach could bring Gold Coast to a 50-50 win/loss result.
It is interesting to look at Brett Ratten’s career at Carlton and Brad Scott’s at North. Ratten took over from the high credentialed Dennis Pagan who from 104 games won a miserly 24%. Then Ratten achieved exactly 50% from his 120 games. After Ratten came 3-time premiership coach Michael Malthouse. His strike rate was 37% from his 54 games.
By contrast to Malthouse and Pagan, Ratten was highly successful.
Brad Scott achieved nearly 55% win record, but this was not a huge lift from previous North coaches. Scott’s record is certainly pretty good, but in his last four seasons it fell significantly.

[barneyboyz]

I thought alot of Rat's as Carlton's coach and thought he was very stiff.

Agreed, but just speaking through the “perspective” window we have to remember that Ratten and Scott shared an almost identical 50% win/loss ratio for an extended period as senior coaches.

Fair comment re "perspective" about Scott and Ratten's "almost identical 50% win/loss ratio" as senior Coaches............ However, I would add this rider: Scott had twice the amount of seasons (2009-2019) that Ratten had at Carlton (2007-2012) In my humble opinion, that makes a WEE bit of difference!!

I simply cannot see, in my minds eye Brad Scott in those pictures of Rats and the boys (after the game), or the way he went about giving Doulton his game. I might be wrong and Rats might not get the job, but the Carlton side when he lost his job, was not that good

FWIW, our next coach will inherit a far better team than first thought

[WellardSaint]

I keep thinking of Richo's comments after the Tigers game.
He said that "the kick and catch might have looked frustrating, from the outside, but it was keeping us in the game

That shows he was deluded and in denial.
To admit that he was instructing the players to do 'keepings off' to stay in touch,
shows he thought we could score some lucky goals and just planned on minimising the damage.
Ridiculous.
Lyon has a habit of stifling scoring.

And don't think Ratten is deluded and believes he has the magic formula.
He has history, he's seen lots of bad times, he's NOT deluded, he's not stubborn, he doesn't have an inflated self-belief.
He got cut for Malthouse.
He picked himself up, went to work under Clarkson.
Richo was so damn stubborn that he knew what he was doing-
he hung his hat on the Giants win a few years back, the Cats win where Gresh sold candy to Lonergan,
the first Maddies' Match...and built off those memories.

[shanegrambeau]

I thought alot of Rat's as Carlton's coach and thought he was very stiff.

Agreed, but just speaking through the “perspective” window we have to remember that Ratten and Scott shared an almost identical 50% win/loss ratio for an extended period as senior coaches.

Fair comment re "perspective" about Scott and Ratten's "almost identical 50% win/loss ratio" as senior Coaches............ However, I would add this rider: Scott had twice the amount of seasons (2009-2019) that Ratten had at Carlton (2007-2012) In my humble opinion, that makes a WEE bit of difference!!

I simply cannot see, in my minds eye Brad Scott in those pictures of Rats and the boys (after the game), or the way he went about giving Doulton his game. I might be wrong and Rats might not get the job, but the Carlton side when he lost his job, was not that good

FWIW, our next coach will inherit a far better team than first thought

I think Scott did pretty well. 2009, NMelb finished 14th with 7 wins. True, Laidley had them in finals in ‘07 and ‘08 but they were an average team at best, their facilities lousy, future shakes and like us suffered from an image in attracting talent. Then, like us, they started offloading experience to bargain for youth. That Scott managed 50% over such an extended period is impressive.
That said, they look better now and l am loving Ratten. Go Ratts!

[WellardSaint]

I thought alot of Rat's as Carlton's coach and thought he was very stiff.

Agreed, but just speaking through the “perspective” window we have to remember that Ratten and Scott shared an almost identical 50% win/loss ratio for an extended period as senior coaches.

Fair comment re "perspective" about Scott and Ratten's "almost identical 50% win/loss ratio" as senior Coaches............ However, I would add this rider: Scott had twice the amount of seasons (2009-2019) that Ratten had at Carlton (2007-2012) In my humble opinion, that makes a WEE bit of difference!!

this post is why you are my favourite poster.

Especially since White Winmar/Drake Huggins got banned and left in a huff (he was my fav poster on here)

[St Chris]

Coaching to "not lose" is certainly not limited to Richo.

Its a symptom of the over-analysis our game is currently subjected to.

There's no coincidence that the clubs with interim coaches are playing with more freedom and getting better results. Once the "don't get blown out of the water" pressure is released, the players get back to decent footy, rather than being slaves to the system.

[Saintmatt]

Coaching to "not lose" is certainly not limited to Richo.

Its a symptom of the over-analysis our game is currently subjected to.

There's no coincidence that the clubs with interim coaches are playing with more freedom and getting better results. Once the "don't get blown out of the water" pressure is released, the players get back to decent footy, rather than being slaves to the system.

That may be true but this has felt like modus operandi for Richo et al for 18 months or more has been like this. Same with Bolton at Carltoon. We've both been hyper-defensive. But - yesterday we played a lot like Carltoon have been

Most days I wish the AFL would completely outlaw coaches (or more specifically - those that have turned it into a game of defence and scrimmage).

[Special]

I just hope we win 4 of our next 5 and really show up Richo for what he was/wasn’t.

Call me a vindictive ahole all you like, but we have been stuck in a void for over 12 months with this protracted Richo exit, and will take a while to move on

[saynta]

Call me a vindictive ahole all you like, but we have been stuck in a void for over 12 months with this protracted Richo exit, and will take a while to move on

Well, I would if the rules permitted it, which they don't.

[B.M]

We won 4 of our first 6 because we had some easier games at the start, we will win a few on the way home, because we have some easier games coming up.

Question
Who have we lost to this season, that we should of beaten?
Have we won any games we should not have?

[BarryGrogan]

If you could sum up our 'style' during that period it would be - don't play to win; play not to lose.

I reckon that extends to 'don't upset anyone' too.

[freely]

By his own account, Ratten didn't change anything except the forwards coach, just encouraged the players to play with confidence. So if you're still shitting on Richo, please acknowledge that you're doing it (as before) just for the sake of doing it, not because the club somehow needs your "honest assessment".

[Myron Gaines]

We won 4 of our first 6 because we had some easier games at the start, we will win a few on the way home, because we have some easier games coming up.

Question
Who have we lost to this season, that we should of beaten?
Have we won any games we should not have?

The implication here is 2018 St Kilda is reality. What about 2016-7 St Kilda with a trajectory to play finals given a young list only for the arse to completely fall out in 2018?

Seriously, I’ve had a gut full of this acceptance to mediocrity instilled in this club over the past 8 years.

Who should we have beaten? We should be aiming for 13+ wins so you work it out.

I’m just happy we can now move forwards with the exit of Richardson who has been the main centre piece of this decade of mediocrity, lack of high performance standards, poor development & negative/ugly brand of football.

[Myron Gaines]

By his own account, Ratten didn't change anything except the forwards coach, just encouraged the players to play with confidence. So if you're still shitting on Richo, please acknowledge that you're doing it (as before) just for the sake of doing it, not because the club somehow needs your "honest assessment".

Do you think he’s going to come out & tell the rest of the football world about his planning & execution?

[freely]

By his own account, Ratten didn't change anything except the forwards coach, just encouraged the players to play with confidence. So if you're still shitting on Richo, please acknowledge that you're doing it (as before) just for the sake of doing it, not because the club somehow needs your "honest assessment".

Do you think he’s going to come out & tell the rest of the football world about his planning & execution?

OK, don't acknowledge it. Just keep on doing it if it makes you happy.

[Scollop]

freely

Are you talking about honesty in relation to acknowledging Richo's win loss record? Your opinion versus other people's opinions is not important in the scheme of things. Seperate opinion from facts.

There is a very good reason that there aren't too many coaches lasting as long as Richo. You have to be able to take the emotion out of it and just compare how the team performs over the next five weeks. I think you are confusing your opinion versus the fact that Richo has been unsuccessful in improving the team over a very long extended period.

You can keep ignoring the honest truth like the fact that we have been unable to score over 100 points for so long. People are not interested in shitting on anyone. They care for this football club and they are trying to objectively assess the strengths of our interim coach.

The footy department and CEO have been in denial since July 2017. You can keep ignoring the fact that the team was crying out for leadership and a head coach who 'honestly' believed in our players. All clubs have injuries. Too many negative messages were heard throughout 2018 and I believe we had stagnated and young players were being held back in their development. I am confident that Ratten will make this team grow and improve significantly over the next few years

[axcellence]

Perspective can go to hell.

Ratten is the best coach since GT.

GT had the saints playing corridor footy. Shame that it’s been 12 years since saints have returned to it.

With additional nous, Ratten will take the Saints to the finals and a premiership, if he’s given a chance.

[barks4eva]

Perspective can go to hell.

Ratten is the best coach since GT.

GT had the saints playing corridor footy. Shame that it’s been 12 years since saints have returned to it.

With additional nous, Ratten will take the Saints to the finals and a premiership, if he’s given a chance.

Grant Thomas had the best AFL playing list in the history of the universe in 2004-05 and even then could not lead the team into a Grand Final.

A Sumatran Orangutan could have coached that list into a Grand Final.

[freely]

freely

Are you talking about honesty in relation to acknowledging Richo's win loss record? Your opinion versus other people's opinions is not important in the scheme of things. Seperate opinion from facts.

There is a very good reason that there aren't too many coaches lasting as long as Richo. You have to be able to take the emotion out of it and just compare how the team performs over the next five weeks. I think you are confusing your opinion versus the fact that Richo has been unsuccessful in improving the team over a very long extended period.

You can keep ignoring the honest truth like the fact that we have been unable to score over 100 points for so long. People are not interested in shitting on anyone. They care for this football club and they are trying to objectively assess the strengths of our interim coach.

The footy department and CEO have been in denial since July 2017. You can keep ignoring the fact that the team was crying out for leadership and a head coach who 'honestly' believed in our players. All clubs have injuries. Too many negative messages were heard throughout 2018 and I believe we had stagnated and young players were being held back in their development. I am confident that Ratten will make this team grow and improve significantly over the next few years

No - I'm not talking about Richo's win-loss and I've got no argument with Richo getting the heave-ho. I'm just not a fan of supporters taking the opportunity to have one last pot at him, basically pretending that us beating the bulldogs - using a gameplan pretty much unchanged from the one he was using with the notable difference that during this game we kicked straight - proves that he was useless! It doesn't prove anything. Not that Ratts is a genius and our saviour either.

[Scoop]

A Sumatran Orangutan could have coached that list into a Grand Final.