Succession planning

[bobmurray]

Succession Planning...

I think the Saints are holding out for that until we start having uncompromised drafts...

I think this is right. Plus free agency. As our stars retire over the next few years, we will gradually be cashed up and be a strong player in the market again.

We will have higher draft picks, and more cash to chase uncontracted players.

Plus there has to be a few players fall out from the GC and WSG lists for various reasons. Not having picked up any KPP in this draft won't be a problem next year as none would have had an impact anyway.

I'll leave it the pros.

I agree 100%
Now if Plugger66 wrote that he would get smashed...

he wouldn't write it like that....that's why he'd get smashed...

[Scoop]

No plugger....I just think the club should have drafted taller...

Your decision to back the club at every turn is your way......I try to look at things logically and piece things together..

do you think we lack tall players from 18-23...actually, i'll rephrase
do you think the ratio of mids to talls is balanced
and
did we succession plan

Forgot to mention
We delisted Cahilll 192cm Forward, Johnson 191cm Forward...

So

5 talls out
4 over 29

Last drafted talls

Archer, Simpkin....both Rookies

No use picking blokes to play seconds footy....leave that to the sandringham recruiters....

[maverick]

oh you meant the other guy....sorry, I cant understand you mistakes...

Isnt he a Ruck/Fwd??? as Ameet said...I was talking about the spine...

Kosi 29
McEvoy 23
Stanley 22

we needed one more there....but we have the position covered going fwd, and really only need back up.....NOT a priority

Lost the bet

Are you serious?
Last time I looked Kosi has been playing spine for the last 5 years.
Kosi 29 and injury prone not a priority but Fisher 29 and fit is a priority...wow...

You talking mistakes...funny
A teacher that can't spell or write

[plugger66]

Succession Planning...

I think the Saints are holding out for that until we start having uncompromised drafts...

I think this is right. Plus free agency. As our stars retire over the next few years, we will gradually be cashed up and be a strong player in the market again.

We will have higher draft picks, and more cash to chase uncontracted players.

Plus there has to be a few players fall out from the GC and WSG lists for various reasons. Not having picked up any KPP in this draft won't be a problem next year as none would have had an impact anyway.

I'll leave it the pros.

I agree 100%
Now if Plugger66 wrote that he would get smashed...

he wouldn't write it like that....that's why he'd get smashed...

Stay on topic big dick.

[BigMart]

are you suggesting none of the talls taken past 25 can succeed in the AFL

Why did the other clubs recruited them??

Elton 26, Kersten 31, Paine 50 and Talia somewhere in the 40's....are they destined for the scrapheap

[plugger66]

are you suggesting none of the talls taken past 25 can succeed in the AFL

Why did the other clubs recruited them??

Elton 26, Kersten 31, Paine 50 and Talia somewhere in the 40's....are they destined for the scrapheap

Obviously in the clubs opinion they werent worth recruiting. Has John Beveridge ever approached you. Or even Tony Elshaug?

[Scoop]

are you suggesting none of the talls taken past 25 can succeed in the AFL

Why did the other clubs recruited them??

Elton 26, Kersten 31, Paine 50 and Talia somewhere in the 40's....are they destined for the scrapheap

Was this meant for me BM.....I will answer anyway...

First of all, you mentioned the delistings of Cahill and Johnson....both of them seconds players....so not really relevant to the discussion.

Second....I did not say that none of the talls taken past 25 were no good....please don't try and put words into my mouth....

We obviously rated Ross as the best option at #25....therefore, given that our next pick was 35, Elton and Kerston were no longer available to us....surely this is not too hard to follow....

Talia went at #39....good solid kpp at u/18....pace and kicking a worry....we obviously preferred Markworth and Newnes (someone that can use the ball brilliantly from half back - modern footy?)

As I said earlier, I would have picked Paine myself, because I think he has a big upside....but he is considered a bit ....how would you put it.... 'careful'.....

We picked Wilkes as a ready to go KPP....whether he can cut it at his second go is debatable....but he did have a great year at Claremont this year and is a big unit.....

As someone said before....let's wait for the less compromised draft....and one where there are more viable talls...

[SainterK]

Nice work scoop

[Scoop]

Nice work scoop

Thanks K....do u like my avatar....

[SainterK]

Nice work scoop

Thanks K....do u like my avatar....

Yep

[Spinner]

No plugger....I just think the club should have drafted taller...

Your decision to back the club at every turn is your way......I try to look at things logically and piece things together..

do you think we lack tall players from 18-23...actually, i'll rephrase
do you think the ratio of mids to talls is balanced
and
did we succession plan

Forgot to mention
We delisted Cahilll 192cm Forward, Johnson 191cm Forward...

So

5 talls out
4 over 29

Last drafted talls

Archer, Simpkin....both Rookies

You analise all the simple things like facts and figures.... how about the hard stuff.


Like P66 mentioned - Were there any talls available that the recruiters thought were capable of having an input and a promising career.


Players like Cahill and Johnson were drafted late - and never developed.



What players would you have drafted? And would they be more valuable than the player we picked up....

In simple terms - I would rather 10 200 game midfielders than 1 hack forward. GOP are a dime a dozen. We can short term on of those through the VFL.

[hungry for a premiership]

The planning that went into this draft from Pelchen and co. was exhaustive. One must therefore assume something like "the qaulity of the mids on offer was better value than the talls available in a compromised and shallow draft." We'll get some KPP next year, or the one after... Have some faith.

[bobmurray]

Nice work scoop

Thanks K....do u like my avatar....

No

[8856brother]

The planning that went into this draft from Pelchen and co. was exhaustive. One must therefore assume something like "the qaulity of the mids on offer was better value than the talls available in a compromised and shallow draft." We'll get some KPP next year, or the one after... Have some faith.

Was anyone else worried when we were the first club to ask for an extra 2 minutes?

[Bernard Shakey]

Nice work scoop :wink:

Thanks K....do u like my avatar.... :wink:

Yep 8-)

Harvey loves it as well.

[Bernard Shakey]

The planning that went into this draft from Pelchen and co. was exhaustive. One must therefore assume something like "the qaulity of the mids on offer was better value than the talls available in a compromised and shallow draft." We'll get some KPP next year, or the one after... Have some faith.

Was anyone else worried when we were the first club to ask for an extra 2 minutes?

Nope!

[Spud]

And I aint either but maybe the players at those higher picks that were KPP werent good enough in the eyes of our recruiters so why draft them to sit in the seconds. Also maybe our club think many mids rotating will get the ball forward enough to give any forward a chance to kick a winning score. IMO mids niow win you GF's and even all finals.

I think your right, at the draft they were saying that the new direction of clubs was a focus on mids, hence the large selection of mids by GWS.

[bergholt]

and the last two drafts have not added a KPP

i reckon the club are more worried about having a midfield post hayes, dal, joey - and i agree with them.

more and more quality running players are needed in this game and we're really short in the 20 - 26 age bracket. just steven, armo, polo, ray; and winmar, geary, saad, milera as hopefuls. that doesn't look like a great future midfield core to me.

so i reckon what the club did last year and this year was to chase really hard at getting enough mids in so that some would work out. crocker, ledger, cripps, newnes, ross, webster; and maybe markworth, curren and siposs? who knows, but some of them will probably turn out to be decent or better.

the only way to do it is to throw enough mud against the wall so that some of it sticks. the problem with hedging your bets and picking up a couple ok talls and a couple ok smalls is that you might be left with a shortage in one area or the other.

face facts - we're rebuilding. i'd rather rebuild a team from the midfield than from the key positions.

[Scoop]

Nice work scoop

Thanks K....do u like my avatar....

No

Was I talking to you....

[Scoop]

and the last two drafts have not added a KPP

i reckon the club are more worried about having a midfield post hayes, dal, joey - and i agree with them.

more and more quality running players are needed in this game and we're really short in the 20 - 26 age bracket. just steven, armo, polo, ray; and winmar, geary, saad, milera as hopefuls. that doesn't look like a great future midfield core to me.

so i reckon what the club did last year and this year was to chase really hard at getting enough mids in so that some would work out. crocker, ledger, cripps, newnes, ross, webster; and maybe markworth, curren and siposs? who knows, but some of them will probably turn out to be decent or better.

the only way to do it is to throw enough mud against the wall so that some of it sticks. the problem with hedging your bets and picking up a couple ok talls and a couple ok smalls is that you might be left with a shortage in one area or the other.

face facts - we're rebuilding. i'd rather rebuild a team from the midfield than from the key positions.

Good post....shows some insight....

[maverick]

and the last two drafts have not added a KPP

i reckon the club are more worried about having a midfield post hayes, dal, joey - and i agree with them.

more and more quality running players are needed in this game and we're really short in the 20 - 26 age bracket. just steven, armo, polo, ray; and winmar, geary, saad, milera as hopefuls. that doesn't look like a great future midfield core to me.

so i reckon what the club did last year and this year was to chase really hard at getting enough mids in so that some would work out. crocker, ledger, cripps, newnes, ross, webster; and maybe markworth, curren and siposs? who knows, but some of them will probably turn out to be decent or better.

the only way to do it is to throw enough mud against the wall so that some of it sticks. the problem with hedging your bets and picking up a couple ok talls and a couple ok smalls is that you might be left with a shortage in one area or the other.

face facts - we're rebuilding. i'd rather rebuild a team from the midfield than from the key positions.

+1

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

And I aint either but maybe the players at those higher picks that were KPP werent good enough in the eyes of our recruiters so why draft them to sit in the seconds. Also maybe our club think many mids rotating will get the ball forward enough to give any forward a chance to kick a winning score. IMO mids niow win you GF's and even all finals.

You can't help yourself ....

What cant I help. Sticking up for the club when they have all the knowledge and some morons on here are guessing or have none? Sorry i will bag them if it makes you feel better.

Did the club not have "all the knowledge" in the past 3-4 drafts as well, which you yourself now acknowledge they did very poorly in, do you not? And if anyone bagged their selections in those drafts, did you not similarly get stuck into them then, with this same sort of parochialism, sticking up for those inside the club as if they are some sort of "super-heroes", who can do no wrong? I have no doubt you would have.
And you don't seem to have learned a thing. (Surprise, surprise) You keep saying things like "they have all the knowledge", as if that somehow guarantees that they'll get everything 100%, all the time. If only life was that simple (although it would of course then become very predictable and boring).
You tend to jump all over anyone who suggests the club may have erred in any way (unless of course you happen to agree with them), despite the fact they could very well be correct. You're obviously clinging desperately to the notion that everything has to work logically and make sense, but life works in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways. That's why someone with "all the knowledge" can still make a major stuff-up and why someone with just a fraction of that knowledge can make the correct call on that occasion. It's one of the things that makes life so interesting. If it didn't and those "inside" the club were correct in everything they did, because they have "all the knowledge", then none of us would be here talking about stuff, because there would be nothing to talk about, or debate. We'd all just be saying "the club will get it right", "the club will get it right", "I'll back their judgement".....
But of course if it's you who believe the club has made a mistake (like when they played Michael Gardiner in round 24 this year) you go on and on and on and on about it, because of course it's OK if you bag something they've done, because you're special, I take it? But if it's anyone else on here who begs to differ with something they've done, and you don't agree with them, they're "morons", apparently.
Can we all say egomaniacal?

As for what you said about "maybe our club think many mids rotating will get the ball forward enough to give any forward a chance to kick a winning score.", do you happen to remember a certain game in the last weekend of September, 2009? I seem to recall a certain team (may have been us) dominating the game through the middle of the ground (31 inside 50's to 15, in the first half alone), but not having a good enough forward line to capitalise on that midfield dominance? They then went on to lose. I would hope they have learned from that and wouldn't plan on having that happen again.

[plugger66]

And I aint either but maybe the players at those higher picks that were KPP werent good enough in the eyes of our recruiters so why draft them to sit in the seconds. Also maybe our club think many mids rotating will get the ball forward enough to give any forward a chance to kick a winning score. IMO mids niow win you GF's and even all finals.

You can't help yourself ....

What cant I help. Sticking up for the club when they have all the knowledge and some morons on here are guessing or have none? Sorry i will bag them if it makes you feel better.

Did the club not have "all the knowledge" in the past 3-4 drafts as well, which you yourself now acknowledge they did very poorly in, do you not? And if anyone bagged their selections in those drafts, did you not similarly get stuck into them then, with this same sort of parochialism, sticking up for those inside the club as if they are some sort of "super-heroes", who can do no wrong? I have no doubt you would have.
And you don't seem to have learned a thing. (Surprise, surprise) You keep saying things like "they have all the knowledge", as if that somehow guarantees that they'll get everything 100%, all the time. If only life was that simple (although it would of course then become very predictable and boring).
You tend to jump all over anyone who suggests the club may have erred in any way (unless of course you happen to agree with them), despite the fact they could very well be correct. You're obviously clinging desperately to the notion that everything has to work logically and make sense, but life works in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways. That's why someone with "all the knowledge" can still make a major stuff-up and why someone with just a fraction of that knowledge can make the correct call on that occasion. It's one of the things that makes life so interesting. If it didn't and those "inside" the club were correct in everything they did, because they have "all the knowledge", then none of us would be here talking about stuff, because there would be nothing to talk about, or debate. We'd all just be saying "the club will get it right", "the club will get it right", "I'll back their judgement".....
But of course if it's you who believe the club has made a mistake (like when they played Michael Gardiner in round 24 this year) you go on and on and on and on about it, because of course it's OK if you bag something they've done, because you're special, I take it? But if it's anyone else on here who begs to differ with something they've done, and you don't agree with them, they're "morons", apparently.
Can we all say egomaniacal?

As for what you said about "maybe our club think many mids rotating will get the ball forward enough to give any forward a chance to kick a winning score.", do you happen to remember a certain game in the last weekend of September, 2009? I seem to recall a certain team (may have been us) dominating the game through the middle of the ground (31 inside 50's to 15, in the first half alone), but not having a good enough forward line to capitalise on that midfield dominance? They then went on to lose. I would hope they have learned from that and wouldn't plan on having that happen again.

This is what you are BM dont get. Yes they had all the knowledge in the last 3 drafts before 2010 and yes in hindsight they stuffed up. It isnt an exact science. But what I find annoying is people one hour after the draft without probably seeing any of these guys play saying we picked the wrong player and sounding as if they hope they are right and tell us later how good they were in saying that pick was no good.

I wouldnt mind it if a recruiter got on here and bagged the selections. They have knowledge. You, me and BM have none apart from what is written about them and in most cases what they write is only their strengths.

As I said the club make mistakes which I acknowledge but I aint going to knock their recruiting or team selections because unlike us they have all the knowledge. We have none what so ever. Only arrogant turkeys would knock a draft selection one hour after they are picked.

[Gershwin]

To quote Emma Quayle,
"Clubs have big decisions to make this year, especially if they're looking for talls; while there are lots around, they all come with flaws to fix.
The midfielders seem a 'safer' group."

To show how compromised this draft was, GWS had first go at it last year and took the following 17 year olds:
Andrew Phillips - 202cm
Josh Bruce - 197cm
Jeremy Cameron - 196cm
Jack Hombsch - 194cm
Tim Segrave - 193 cm
Jack Golds - 191cm

Then they got another go and took:
Jonathon Patton - 197cm
Adam Tomlinson - 193cm
Brisbane took Billy Longer at 8

All the good talls were gone.
We have taken Jay Lever with a reasonably high pick 60 and hopefully he will make it.

But I agree that next year in an uncompromised draft we must go tall and we may have to engineer some low picks. We might have to bite the bullet and trade some of our better players in the interests of the future.

[ace]

but good key talls are worth their weight in gold...

GOOD key talls are worth their weight in gold.
But good key talls are extremely rare.
They are as rare as gold.
Ordinary key talls are a waste of a pick.
Brown was a father son pick.
Riewoldt, Franklin etc were early round one picks.
Good key talls are all gone well before pick 10.

The last two drafts had been picked clean of "good key talls" by Gold Coast and GWS.
The Saints had to wait through a heap of priority picks and then wait for most of the rest of the competition to pick before the saints first crack.

The club has been wise not to waste picks chasing second rate talls, instead going after the "best available" player.
The time to go after key talls is when the draft returns to normal and especialy when the club finishes further down the ladder.