Shane Savage = rebounding defender minus the 'defender'

[Saint wagga]

My observations on Savage from the weekend were that he's still got a long way to go in learning how to 'defend'. It's all well and good being a rebounding defender, it's half about rebounding and using pace and long kicks breaking lines etc...the other half is 'defender'...he was very dissapointing yesterday, back to his early season form...people at the game, did the Doggies put more time into him off the ball to shut his run down, or did he just stink it up??

[DK27]

Agree.
Savage gave up lots of goals. He is very easily pushed off contested ball situations and marking contests. Missed tackles too. At least 2 resulted in goals. Gave up at least one dumb free kick for a goal too.
He looked exhausted in the last quarter. Is he fit enough?
Terrible game!

[gringo]

I thought he went okay despite being a bit loose. Wasn't our worst player. Generally we went attacking and got burnt on the turn over but he wasn't alone.

[The Redeemer]

It is always going to happen as an aggressive rebounding defender.

In the end, if he was actually a great small defender he would be the back pocket player.

Considering his run and carry, good outweighs the bad although if the opposition decides to move attack through him, it happens.

[8856brother]

Has been a revelation for over a month. Wasn't great yesterday. Wasn't the only one. Going ok.

[Moods]

Was poor yesterday. First priority of a defender is to actually defend. The OP is spot on. Was bumped off the ball too easily and missed crucial tackles that cost us dearly.

Ppl scream about Gilbo and Gwilts turnovers with ball in hand, but missed tackles (that should be stuck) and an inability to hold your ground over the ball are just as costly. His form has been much better, but yesterday was poor.

[Animal Enclosure]

His opponent got goal side a few times & he got burnt.

The bigger issue was the poor midfield running when the ball was turned over.

[Saint wagga]

agree our 'team' defence which richo often refers to was down...but given the amount of time we had the ball in our back half, savage didnt get much of it (11 disposals) and looked very suspect in his defensive acts which prompted my original post...hence why i asked if anyone at the ground noticed more defensive work go into him from the doggies, much like tommy curren ran with murphy??

[Life Long Saint]

Rebounding defender minus the defender...Sounds a lot like Jason Gram and Aussie Jones.

It's up to the coaches and the rest of the backline to ensure that Savage is not isolated deep in defence. Neither Aussie nor Gram were great at defending especially one-on-one.

[thejiggingsaint]

I thought he wasn't alone in having an "off day" yesterday, but I have confidence that Shane will become one of our leading players over the coming period. I'm prepared to have the patience needed during this rebuild process.

[Superboot]

Looks more like an outside runner to me, in the Joey mould. Don't know what this defending business is all about.

Put his hand up to go off half way through the last quarter and was told to stay on.

[sunsaint]

I dont know why AR is "trying"to make him into a defender at all - especially when we seem to have plenty of his size already
At hawthorn he was goal kicking super sub receiving the ball outside on the wing, covering ground quickly and kicking long goals

[saintsRrising]

I dont know why AR is "trying"to make him into a defender at all - especially when we seem to have plenty of his size already

Because if you do not have guys in your back half who can create play...you are dead.

We have too many defenders who:

* turn the ball over with their kicking

* are too slow to run the ball out

Savage can run the ball out, and is a very accurate and long kick.

[plugger66]

I dont know why AR is "trying"to make him into a defender at all - especially when we seem to have plenty of his size already
At hawthorn he was goal kicking super sub receiving the ball outside on the wing, covering ground quickly and kicking long goals

I think it is because we had no real runners in the back half. makes sense to me. And when he played elsewhere for us he was totally useless. Would have thought it was good coaching myself.

[spert]

Savage is still improving and will be good for us. I would be more concerned about the lack of defensive game from the midfield and half-forwards..been a massive problem most of the season. I couldn't believe how easy it was for Dogs players to easily leave our players (not necessarily at full pace), trot out of their backline and wander though the centre corridor with little or no pressure. This kind of link-up running play just killed us, and has been contributing to far too many of our losses. Not sure what AR is doing tactically about it apart from talking about it at press conferences.

[sunsaint]

I dont know why AR is "trying"to make him into a defender at all - especially when we seem to have plenty of his size already

Because if you do not have guys in your back half who can create play...you are dead.

We have too many defenders who:

* turn the ball over with their kicking

* are too slow to run the ball out

Savage can run the ball out, and is a very accurate and long kick.

but as already mentioned above time and time again - as a defender you need to defend first...

[plugger66]

Savage is still improving and will be good for us. I would be more concerned about the lack of defensive game from the midfield and half-forwards..been a massive problem most of the season. I couldn't believe how easy it was for Dogs players to easily leave our players (not necessarily at full pace), trot out of their backline and wander though the centre corridor with little or no pressure. This kind of link-up running play just killed us, and has been contributing to far too many of our losses. Not sure what AR is doing tactically about it apart from talking about it at press conferences.

Love having a shot at AR spert. As you said your not sure what he is doing but Im guessing if its that obvious to you then he is doing something. The problem he has is that most of our mids are slow and struggle to get back after going forward. Not sure that is AR fault.

[1966]

Savage didn't have a great game but the guy who really struggled was Fisher.
Not surprising given his lack of match fitness but at 30+ it is hard to see him going on next year.
He looked really slow playing on Stringer and I think Savage offers more going forward.
Savage and Gilbert coming off half back should provide plenty of run.

[plugger66]

Savage didn't have a great game but the guy who really struggled was Fisher.
Not surprising given his lack of match fitness but at 30+ it is hard to see him going on next year.
He looked really slow playing on Stringer and I think Savage offers more going forward.
Savage and Gilbert coming off half back should provide plenty of run.

Im unsure Fisher was on Stringer for at least 2 goals. I thought his first half was really good. Slowed down in the second half but that is to be expected. Not sure savage and Fisher have anything to do with each other as far who offers more and they play in completely different positions.

[spert]

Savage is still improving and will be good for us. I would be more concerned about the lack of defensive game from the midfield and half-forwards..been a massive problem most of the season. I couldn't believe how easy it was for Dogs players to easily leave our players (not necessarily at full pace), trot out of their backline and wander though the centre corridor with little or no pressure. This kind of link-up running play just killed us, and has been contributing to far too many of our losses. Not sure what AR is doing tactically about it apart from talking about it at press conferences.

Love having a shot at AR spert. As you said your not sure what he is doing but Im guessing if its that obvious to you then he is doing something. The problem he has is that most of our mids are slow and struggle to get back after going forward. Not sure that is AR fault.

Well P66, any coach must ultimately wear the responsibility for team performances, he is the one overseeing the preparation of the team in all aspects, and I'm not seeing AR putting any stamp on the team so far this season..the team has looked like a headless chicken in most games, and the bottom of the ladder position is a result.

[thejiggingsaint]

I'm confident that the coach knows what he's doing, and that Shane Savage is firmly a part of the future !

[SainterK]

Not sure we can accurately say who is officially where right now, wait until Gears, Wright, Webster etc are available

[thejiggingsaint]

Fair comment, I concur.

[Bluthy]

Rebounding defender minus the defender...Sounds a lot like Jason Gram and Aussie Jones.

It's up to the coaches and the rest of the backline to ensure that Savage is not isolated deep in defence. Neither Aussie nor Gram were great at defending especially one-on-one.

Well put. I was comparing him with Gram as well as well as someone like Heath Shaw. Ideally they are the +1 in the backline mainly to provide rebound but Dogs cleverly got him isolated a few times on a taller player where he was toast. Savage will never be an a-grade defender but he does need to learn how to neutralise a situation if he's caught one on one. I can see why he would have frustrated the Hawks coaching staff and couldn't quite crack their team - he's seems very up and down and lacking in deep down belief. I kept wanting him to really get on his bike but he seemed very flat. His temperament seems quite flighty - reminds me a bit of Fiora. He's developed a bit in his first year at the club so I'm hoping we'll see a bit more consistency and reliability next year.

[plugger66]

Savage is still improving and will be good for us. I would be more concerned about the lack of defensive game from the midfield and half-forwards..been a massive problem most of the season. I couldn't believe how easy it was for Dogs players to easily leave our players (not necessarily at full pace), trot out of their backline and wander though the centre corridor with little or no pressure. This kind of link-up running play just killed us, and has been contributing to far too many of our losses. Not sure what AR is doing tactically about it apart from talking about it at press conferences.

Love having a shot at AR spert. As you said your not sure what he is doing but Im guessing if its that obvious to you then he is doing something. The problem he has is that most of our mids are slow and struggle to get back after going forward. Not sure that is AR fault.

Well P66, any coach must ultimately wear the responsibility for team performances, he is the one overseeing the preparation of the team in all aspects, and I'm not seeing AR putting any stamp on the team so far this season..the team has looked like a headless chicken in most games, and the bottom of the ladder position is a result.

Obviously you didnt rate SW either. What coaches have you rated at the Saints? We are bottom of the ladder because we have a poor side. Roos won a flag at Sydney and melbourne have the same wins as us.