The brains trust

[jonesy]

Please please please can we formulate a strategy over the next 6 months before round 1,that doesn't revolve around kicking it to Roo 98% of the time.

I know it's a hard thing to do because he is such a presenting animal,time and time again,but at this point in our development it's a liability.

We have Stanley and White(perhaps another drafted/traded?) next year who need to take on more commanding roles,they are not going to get that when they're ignored ,bit part forward presences as Roo demands the ball every time. Key forward is a hard enough role to play in the modern game as it is,let alone to be trying to carve out a career as a bit part role playing tall

Surely,with Roo coming into last season or second last,we can formulate some alternative forward entries. As it currently is,Stanley and White's progress is being halted by the current formula.

[plugger66]

Please please please can we formulate a strategy over the next 6 months before round 1,that doesn't revolve around kicking it to Roo 98% of the time.

I know it's a hard thing to do because he is such a presenting animal,time and time again,but at this point in our development it's a liability.

We have Stanley and White(perhaps another drafted/traded?) next year who need to take on more commanding roles,they are not going to get that when they're ignored ,bit part forward presences as Roo demands the ball every time. Key forward is a hard enough role to play in the modern game as it is,let alone to be trying to carve out a career as a bit part role playing tall

Surely,with Roo coming into last season or second last,we can formulate some alternative forward entries. As it currently is,Stanley and White's progress is being halted by the current formula.

Im afraid I dont really agree with this. Roo doesnt play in the seconds and it isnt as if these guys dominate when playing there. The ball isnt kicked to them as much because they dont work hard enough for a start and if I was a player and saw Roo leading and re leading and Stanley leading ance and then not again you have no choice but to kick it to Roo unless you bomb and we know bombing doesnt worl

[jonesy]

Please please please can we formulate a strategy over the next 6 months before round 1,that doesn't revolve around kicking it to Roo 98% of the time.

I know it's a hard thing to do because he is such a presenting animal,time and time again,but at this point in our development it's a liability.

We have Stanley and White(perhaps another drafted/traded?) next year who need to take on more commanding roles,they are not going to get that when they're ignored ,bit part forward presences as Roo demands the ball every time. Key forward is a hard enough role to play in the modern game as it is,let alone to be trying to carve out a career as a bit part role playing tall

Surely,with Roo coming into last season or second last,we can formulate some alternative forward entries. As it currently is,Stanley and White's progress is being halted by the current formula.

Im afraid I dont really agree with this. Roo doesnt play in the seconds and it isnt as if these guys dominate when playing there. The ball isnt kicked to them as much because they dont work hard enough for a start and if I was a player and saw Roo leading and re leading and Stanley leading ance and then not again you have no choice but to kick it to Roo unless you bomb and we know bombing doesnt worl

Exactly,but how does this help us?! Roo is not in our next finals campaign, yet our game revolves around kicking it to him

I probably worded it wrong saying 'ignored'.... as you say,Roo works harder, but again,this is not helping us going forward. If Stanley and White are the future(there is plenty of potential there),they need to be given more commanding roles. They are not going to work as hard as Roo,no one does,ever has, but we're not benefitting from the way it is now,and either are these guys

[matrix]

gotta agree

play him on the wing or at chf if we arent gettin it past there
leave the goal square for the future forwards coming thru

[plugger66]

Please please please can we formulate a strategy over the next 6 months before round 1,that doesn't revolve around kicking it to Roo 98% of the time.

I know it's a hard thing to do because he is such a presenting animal,time and time again,but at this point in our development it's a liability.

We have Stanley and White(perhaps another drafted/traded?) next year who need to take on more commanding roles,they are not going to get that when they're ignored ,bit part forward presences as Roo demands the ball every time. Key forward is a hard enough role to play in the modern game as it is,let alone to be trying to carve out a career as a bit part role playing tall

Surely,with Roo coming into last season or second last,we can formulate some alternative forward entries. As it currently is,Stanley and White's progress is being halted by the current formula.

Im afraid I dont really agree with this. Roo doesnt play in the seconds and it isnt as if these guys dominate when playing there. The ball isnt kicked to them as much because they dont work hard enough for a start and if I was a player and saw Roo leading and re leading and Stanley leading ance and then not again you have no choice but to kick it to Roo unless you bomb and we know bombing doesnt worl

Exactly,but how does this help us?! Roo is not in our next finals campaign, yet our game revolves around kicking it to him

I probably worded it wrong saying 'ignored'.... as you say,Roo works harder, but again,this is not helping us going forward. If Stanley and White are the future(there is plenty of potential there),they need to be given more commanding roles. They are not going to work as hard as Roo,no one does,ever has, but we're not benefitting from the way it is now,and either are these guys

Im not saying it will help us in the future at all. I just dont see any other option apart from telling Roo to retire. Maybe it teaches the others to work harder. if they have any pride in their game they arent going to like not getting the ball. Yep we could move Roo to the wing but all that means is we are a tall short of Stanley then gets the best back. You could argue lenny playing this year hasnt help other mids to develop as well but I would prefer thinking he is actually teaching the others to work harder. The same with Roo.

[bergsone]

Trouble is,cant see anyone who will work as hard as Roo,when Stanley,White etc improve their tanks this will change a bit

Off topic,thought Stanley worked hard in ruck yesterday

[matrix]

no other option other than rooey retire?

cmon pluggs ya taking the piss
he could play at chf
on the wing
chb
hff

[plugger66]

Trouble is,cant see anyone who will work as hard as Roo,when Stanley,White etc improve their tanks this will change a bit

Off topic,thought Stanley worked hard in ruck yesterday

Agreed did very well in the ruck yesterday. The more I see it the more I wonder how the hell Hickey and Longer ever work together.

[stinger]

Please please please can we formulate a strategy over the next 6 months before round 1,that doesn't revolve around kicking it to Roo 98% of the time.

I know it's a hard thing to do because he is such a presenting animal,time and time again,but at this point in our development it's a liability.

We have Stanley and White(perhaps another drafted/traded?) next year who need to take on more commanding roles,they are not going to get that when they're ignored ,bit part forward presences as Roo demands the ball every time. Key forward is a hard enough role to play in the modern game as it is,let alone to be trying to carve out a career as a bit part role playing tall

Surely,with Roo coming into last season or second last,we can formulate some alternative forward entries. As it currently is,Stanley and White's progress is being halted by the current formula.

9

...at the weekend saw a saints player on his own more than once but the dills kept kicking it to roo who was being double teamed...

[SaintWodonga]

We also need players who can A) get the ball to the forwards and B) hit them lace out.

All year our midfield was smashed. Too many entries into our back half, not enough forward 50 entries. A midfield / run and spread issue.

[saintbob]

s*** imagine how that would shake up other clubs, because ever since the G-Train retired I reckon Roo has been the target 95% of the time, it would force the opposition to change their defensive game against us for the 1st time in years.

So maybe we do need to switch it up bit

[plugger66]

s*** imagine how that would shake up other clubs, because ever since the G-Train retired I reckon Roo has been the target 95% of the time, it would force the opposition to change their defensive game against us for the 1st time in years.

So maybe we do need to switch it up bit

It would be around 50% I reckon. Footy is pretty professional now and if we changed it up it might upset the opposition for about 10 minutes. I reckon if you asked an opposition coach before the game if they want Roo on the wing or up forward they would go for the wing with all 17 other coaches.

[FQF]

I'm sure they will be able to work this out in the windowless room.

[Scollop]

Im not saying it will help us in the future at all. I just dont see any other option apart from telling Roo to retire. Maybe it teaches the others to work harder. if they have any pride in their game they arent going to like not getting the ball. Yep we could move Roo to the wing but all that means is we are a tall short of Stanley then gets the best back. You could argue lenny playing this year hasnt help other mids to develop as well but I would prefer thinking he is actually teaching the others to work harder. The same with Roo.

The dilemna is always going to be what's best for team is sometimes not best for an individual player. Lenny, Roo, Joey, Chips (and Neil/Kosi/Milne last year) have done what they could for the club and I believe have all been treated with respect by the club. They have ALL been magnificent mentors as we transition.

The mateship and the separation of the senior playing group was the catalyst imo that created the atmosphere that lead to SW being sacked. I reckon SW wanted Roo to retire at the end of 2014 and Roo flatly refused. We all know that Roo is a champion and he desrves to play on but the dilemna is always what's best for team may not be best for Roo the individual. I would prefer if we pick up a No. 1 draft pick and he's a KPF or if we trade in a power forward that they get the opportunity to practice their craft and be number 1 go to forward in 2015 - rather than the 2nd or 3rd option.

The youth has to drive the change and be the future NOW. They are more important to the club right now than our senior players as far as onfield is concerned - whether you like it or not you have to accept it. The time is now for the next generation of players to lead the playing group and take the team forward.

[plugger66]

Im not saying it will help us in the future at all. I just dont see any other option apart from telling Roo to retire. Maybe it teaches the others to work harder. if they have any pride in their game they arent going to like not getting the ball. Yep we could move Roo to the wing but all that means is we are a tall short of Stanley then gets the best back. You could argue lenny playing this year hasnt help other mids to develop as well but I would prefer thinking he is actually teaching the others to work harder. The same with Roo.

The dilemna is always going to be what's best for team is sometimes not best for an individual player. Lenny, Roo, Joey, Chips (and Neil/Kosi/Milne last year) have done what they could for the club and I believe have all been treated with respect by the club. They have ALL been magnificent mentors as we transition.

The mateship and the separation of the senior playing group was the catalyst imo that created the atmosphere that lead to SW being sacked. I reckon SW wanted Roo to retire at the end of 2014 and Roo flatly refused. We all know that Roo is a champion and he desrves to play on but the dilemna is always what's best for team may not be best for Roo the individual. I would prefer if we pick up a No. 1 draft pick and he's a KPF or if we trade in a power forward that they get the opportunity to practice their craft and be number 1 go to forward in 2015 - rather than the 2nd or 3rd option.

The youth has to drive the change and be the future NOW. They are more important to the club right now than our senior players as far as onfield is concerned - whether you like it or not you have to accept it. The time is now for the next generation of players to lead the playing group and take the team forward.

I reckon you are 100% wrong about SW wanting Roo to retire at the end of this year. And SW was disliked by most, young and old. They didnt discriminate at all. And if we got a KPP the best thing the club could do is make him the 3rd or 4th option as a forward, certainly not the first option. I accept youth is best option but i basically dont accept any of what you posted.

And the club has treated those players with respect as the players have treated the club with respect. Dont worry though the club will always do the right thing for a club as shown by Jimmy getting punted so they will do what evers best regarding our forward line as well and obviously at the moment that is playing Roo forward.

[Bunk_Moreland]

s*** imagine how that would shake up other clubs, because ever since the G-Train retired I reckon Roo has been the target 95% of the time, it would force the opposition to change their defensive game against us for the 1st time in years.

So maybe we do need to switch it up bit

Yeah that Milne never scored a goal for us. Either did Kosi

[spert]

We also need players who can A) get the ball to the forwards and B) hit them lace out.

All year our midfield was smashed. Too many entries into our back half, not enough forward 50 entries. A midfield / run and spread issue.

Agree- woeful midfield effort this season and made players like Gwilt look silly trying to stem a tidal wave in most games. Food for thought for the recruiters..and coach.

[plugger66]

We also need players who can A) get the ball to the forwards and B) hit them lace out.

All year our midfield was smashed. Too many entries into our back half, not enough forward 50 entries. A midfield / run and spread issue.

Agree- woeful midfield effort this season and made players like Gwilt look silly trying to stem a tidal wave in most games. Food for thought for the recruiters..and coach.

So its the coaches fault that we got certain players that arent up to it or are to slow. I wouldnt think so. Unfortunately for you spert your bias against AR hides the real problem and that is our players just arent up to it.

[Austinnn]

s*** imagine how that would shake up other clubs, because ever since the G-Train retired I reckon Roo has been the target 95% of the time, it would force the opposition to change their defensive game against us for the 1st time in years.

So maybe we do need to switch it up bit

Yeah that Milne never scored a goal for us. Either did Kosi

I believe that his point was who the midfielders kicked to, not who scored goals. The problem always comes back to our midfield.

Maybe 95% is pushing it a little, but I do agree that our players are too Roo-centric when looking for forward targets. I also agree with P66 who said it's up to the alternatives to present as well as Roo. St Kilda was always far more effective with a Roo/G Train/Milne/Kosi multi-pronged attack so it shows that if the Lees Stanleys and Whites of our team can become those other 'prongs', then it can be done. Will they? Again, are they actually given the delivery that Gehrig and Kosi got? I can't answer, but maybe someone who watches more games can. From what I've been reading about the Freo game and other bits and pieces, it seems like Stanley's effectiveness dramatically increased the further away from the goal Roo was. This would support the OP.

Roo commands a ton of respect at that club, from all players young and old. They've been too scared or in awe of him to take the captaincy off him for years, and if you were a young midfielder about to launch into the forward 50 and you saw the big blond bloke running at full pelt to mark, would you dare kick to another player who may or may not clunk the mark? Roo might give you a spray if you don't honour his lead, are you really going to ignore him when you know he'll probably mark it? I'm not saying it's right, just that it's the easy solution and when you are desperate, easy solutions are hard to turn down.

I also think we take for granted just how good Roo is at presenting; there's a reason why he's been so important and lauded in the footy world, and it's not his goalkicking. Ever since he started, his profile has been up there with the footy titans (how many years had he been playing when he topped Sheahan's Top 50 ahead of M Voss?) and he has been a titan himself for years now. Asking other players to do what he does is like asking other midfielders to just go ahead and navigate the packs like Lenny does - mere mortals aren't up to the task. Even now as he nears retirement, the guy is as important as he ever was; let's just stop and appreciate that fact. If any of our KPFs start to present as well as Roo, I reckon we've done very well.

Regardless of Plugger's point I do think that having a singular ball magnet in the forward line makes us easier to play against, and one would hope that this year they have already started training for solutions to this problem that perhaps we haven't seen the fruit of yet. If not, then Richo and co should really quit coaching and become Boundary Riders for Channel 7 or something. They have already admitted that they were in full rebuild mode this year so that should mean training for the future, and sorting out that conundrum is pretty high up on the Things To Do list to make us more competitive.

So in conclusion, I both support the OP and concede Plugger's point, and I think it is possible for both to be right. Let's hope that White, Stanley and Lee, or perhaps Bruce or one of our other ruckmen can step up and if not be the next Roo, at least be the next Gehrig or Kosi, cos we need A grade midfielders in the upcoming draft. Let's save the KPF picks when there is a truly outstanding one available.

[Zed]

Id love to see Roo on the wing if Spencer, Stanley and our forward options are all fit.

I would have thought he would love the thought of not being double teamed all day.

[spert]

We also need players who can A) get the ball to the forwards and B) hit them lace out.

All year our midfield was smashed. Too many entries into our back half, not enough forward 50 entries. A midfield / run and spread issue.

Agree- woeful midfield effort this season and made players like Gwilt look silly trying to stem a tidal wave in most games. Food for thought for the recruiters..and coach.

So its the coaches fault that we got certain players that arent up to it or are to slow. I wouldnt think so. Unfortunately for you spert your bias against AR hides the real problem and that is our players just arent up to it.

Silly me, and I thought coaches had some input into how a team performs. I don't dislike AR, and he may be a top teacher, but I don't think he is senior coach material.

[plugger66]

We also need players who can A) get the ball to the forwards and B) hit them lace out.

All year our midfield was smashed. Too many entries into our back half, not enough forward 50 entries. A midfield / run and spread issue.

Agree- woeful midfield effort this season and made players like Gwilt look silly trying to stem a tidal wave in most games. Food for thought for the recruiters..and coach.

So its the coaches fault that we got certain players that arent up to it or are to slow. I wouldnt think so. Unfortunately for you spert your bias against AR hides the real problem and that is our players just arent up to it.

Silly me, and I thought coaches had some input into how a team performs. I don't dislike AR, and he may be a top teacher, but I don't think he is senior coach material.

They do. Im unsure how anyone can think otherwise. Who coaches melbourne because i dont know but because they are closest to us I would love the know and I notice they are only a little ahead of us after years of finishing last. Can you explain these faults AR has because to me the game plan id similar to most clubs but unlike most clubs we have the worst list and pretty clearly.

[Playon]

Trouble is,cant see anyone who will work as hard as Roo,when Stanley,White etc improve their tanks this will change a bit

Off topic,thought Stanley worked hard in ruck yesterday

Agreed did very well in the ruck yesterday. The more I see it the more I wonder how the hell Hickey and Longer ever work together.

You might see it if there's changes to the sub rule, otherwise we have 2 or 3 rucks that we can trade later. (depending on how Pierce and Holmes develop) I don't think we've ever had this many rucks on out list ever (5).
To keep 3 would mean Stanley plays as a pure forward and there would definitely need to be changes to the sub. It' may come down to trade or one or 2 may walk.

[samuraisaint]

We also need players who can A) get the ball to the forwards and B) hit them lace out.

All year our midfield was smashed. Too many entries into our back half, not enough forward 50 entries. A midfield / run and spread issue.

Absolutely spot bl**dy on!

[bigcarl]

s*** imagine how that would shake up other clubs, because ever since the G-Train retired I reckon Roo has been the target 95% of the time, it would force the opposition to change their defensive game against us for the 1st time in years.

So maybe we do need to switch it up bit

Of course we do. Nearly everyone can see that ... apart from Rooey and P66.