MCG-Unit wrote:The OtherThommo wrote:
.....In the case of Port and Hawthorn they're actually light on for big rucking types who can play as key forwards. Hawthorn use Roughhead to fill the breach from time to time and, again, that's an elite forward becoming versatile because of need.
2 of the top 3 don't see the same importance in having lots of big blokes to ruck and play forward, as some others do.....
The bigtime Hawker have McEvoy, Hale & (to a lesser extent) Ceglar who are 'big rucking types who can play as key forwards' and Roughead being a big forward who can play ruck.
For depth they also have Lowden, another Ruck/Fwd type plus Grimley a Fwd/Ruck. So I doubt they are 'light on' for this type of player.
FWIW Geelong have McIntosh, Blicavs, Vardy, Simpson, Walker & now Mitch Clark & Stanley who are Ruck/Fwd types.....looks like they value the Ruck/Fwd as well
In the context of Stanley being rated a (potentially) capable ruckman who can play key forward (not just go forward), as a versatile type, I'd suggest Hale is the only one at Hawthorn who can claim to be able to fill such a role - at a pinch, and not for significant parts of seasons - his best was when Franklin and Roughead were together, and he'd get the lesser light defender to exploit. They've used Roughhead in that role when the other rucking types have been hurt or playing at Box Hill because of form/ability. More often than not, when Roughead goes into the middle (which he does quite a bit) he stays on the deck while some other fella jumps up in the air. McEvoy's no chance to play as a key forward, Ceglar's off the rookie list and having a crack as a crash and bash rucking type. Yeah, he's pushed forward and kicked a few goals - he is playing with Hawthorn, and that helps an awful lot. Wouldn't know Grimley if he popped up in me Weeties.
So, yeah, they've got lots of big blokes, just not so many big blokes who can claim to be viable options as key forwards, for any significant part of a season.
My contention earlier was based on Stanley having the key forward string to the bow.
Out of the Geelong list, McIntosh can do similar things to Hale up forward, but he's shown no signs of becoming more robust than he's been in recent years (one of the reasons they've taken Stanley, I reckon). Blicavs has shown ziltch up forward - he's a steeplechaser playing footy. Vardy shows plenty of promise as a footballer, with fine athleticism, but he can't stay on the park - he's had an awful lot of operations, including corrective ones, and lots of lengthy periods out. I haven't seen any evidence of Simpson being any great shakes up forward. Walker seems to me to be pretty much a KPP only, but I may be wrong. Mitch Clarke has shown proficiency at both, but he's a mighty big risk given his injury history (I'm offering no comment on the other stuff).
Again, plenty of numbers, but not much quality or continuity to lay claim to key forward capability.
Both clubs have the luxury of stockpiling a few big blokes because they have top notch, robust, experienced midfields. But, while they might have stockpiles they very rarely play many of 'em at once. The better example is Hawthorn - when Frankin left they altered the way they played, rather than getting conned into thinking a player, ruck type, might be able to become a viable key forward option.
And Geelong played an awful lot of games this year with Hawkins as their only big in the front half.
'I have no new illusions, and I have no old illusions' - Vladimir Putin, Geneva, June 2021