Nick

[Bunk_Moreland]

See there you go - making up something about him belting someone in Rd 22 to justify your stance - 8 weeks before the game.
Do you have a time machine?

It was a hypothetical. Are you Asperbergers or something?

What a nonsense argument. He has been booed the last 12 months. That is what is being discussed here. Dont pretend otherwise. You arent that stupid surely?

Oh dear straw man argument because you cant even read a hypothetical followed by abuse - running to form so far

As for asking out you are an 'independent thinker' and trying to reverse the argument . Well that is just pathetic. You sound like a KKK member trying to say 'down with the politically correct government and their group think.' If I want to call someone an N I can do it! Just because you have a few KKK mob mates cheering you on is no reason for you to claim self-righteous status.

Oh dear the now the abuse comes. Run out of reasoned arguments have you Con? Start abusing someone with a different perspective. Hector them and shout at them and call them right wing extremists.

Well done, I think you encapsulated everything I was attempting to express.

To start abusing people and calling them KKK and the such just shows your lack of understanding of the issue.

It is getting a bit embarrassing for you. But hey call me a KKK, or Nazi or whatever you like, it just makes you look like exactly as I have been describing.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Goodes is now having a few days off. Obviously really effecting him. And he isn't a sook IMO for doing that because none of us know how he is feeling.

True. Most of us are lucky enough not to be born black in this country, to be vilified and racially abused almost every day. This is the lot of some minorities in the community.

In saying that, Goodes should not have used our game for his political purposes. He knows that there would be a backlash, especially inciting the crowd with an aggressive violent war dance.

he should retire immediately before he does any more damage to our game.

He should retire when he wants too and not because some think a person just playing the game is damaging it. As for the war dance I would suggest he had just had enough of the booing and did it and it was also indigenous round. Why aren't you having a go Jetta for his dance the other night?

Because we were talking about Goodes. If you want to know I thought Jetta made an idiot of himself. His team was 8 goals down and here he is making a lame political statement with a quasi chicken dance.

What a douche

[plugger66]

Goodes is now having a few days off. Obviously really effecting him. And he isn't a sook IMO for doing that because none of us know how he is feeling.

True. Most of us are lucky enough not to be born black in this country, to be vilified and racially abused almost every day. This is the lot of some minorities in the community.

In saying that, Goodes should not have used our game for his political purposes. He knows that there would be a backlash, especially inciting the crowd with an aggressive violent war dance.

he should retire immediately before he does any more damage to our game.

He should retire when he wants too and not because some think a person just playing the game is damaging it. As for the war dance I would suggest he had just had enough of the booing and did it and it was also indigenous round. Why aren't you having a go Jetta for his dance the other night?

Because we were talking about Goodes. If you want to know I thought Jetta made an idiot of himself. His team was 8 goals down and here he is making a lame political statement with a quasi chicken dance.

What a douche

At least you are consistent in that stance. Im not sure all others are. I still think Goodes had just had enough and im sure he shouldn't retire until it suits him.

[Dis Believer]

When he appears on TV in an add for the Recognise campaign as Adam Goodes, Sydney footballer, he is using the AFL as his political platform.

His public profile yes. And? Why does that make you feel uncomfortable? How is it different to say Richard Flanagan raising political issues when he won his Man Booker prize last year or Rosie Batty raising domestic violence issues as AOTY?

Maybe I should start booing Rosie. I mean I have never committed domestic violence right? I am innocent. Why should I as a white man be fingered for something I have never done but other white men have done? Not my fault. I might starting booing Rosie.

It is quite ironic that you would choose domestic violence as an example given that the rate of intimate partner violence is significantly higher in the indigenous community than elsewhere. And unfortunately since Rosie Batty became AoTY the content of her public offerings has changed dramatically, and been reduced to regurgitating the feminist narrative based on the much discredited Duluth model on domestic violence. Personally I would much prefer our society to tackle to broader issue of violence in our community, but that will not ensure the ongoing flow of very significant amounts of funding to various feminist groups and organisations with the associated well-paid positions that derive from them. The fact is that 85% of all victims of violence in our community are male, and at least 35% of victims of domestic violence are male, but there's no money in that story.....

[Austinnn]

Goodes is now having a few days off. Obviously really effecting him. And he isn't a sook IMO for doing that because none of us know how he is feeling.

True. Most of us are lucky enough not to be born black in this country, to be vilified and racially abused almost every day. This is the sad lot of some minorities in the community. Nobody denies there is racism and any rational feeling person understands and applaudes efforts to stamp it out.

In saying that, Goodes should not have used our game for his political purposes. He knows that there would be a backlash, especially inciting the crowd with an aggressive violent war dance.

he should retire immediately before he does any more damage to our game.

Have a read of that post again. You just don't get it. They said the same about MLK.

So you're defending the 13 year old girl from bully boy Goodes or you're defending yourself from accusations of racism? It started off as the former now it looks more like the latter.

[Con Gorozidis]

When he appears on TV in an add for the Recognise campaign as Adam Goodes, Sydney footballer, he is using the AFL as his political platform.

His public profile yes. And? Why does that make you feel uncomfortable? How is it different to say Richard Flanagan raising political issues when he won his Man Booker prize last year or Rosie Batty raising domestic violence issues as AOTY?

Maybe I should start booing Rosie. I mean I have never committed domestic violence right? I am innocent. Why should I as a white man be fingered for something I have never done but other white men have done? Not my fault. I might starting booing Rosie.

It is quite ironic that you would choose domestic violence as an example given that the rate of intimate partner violence is significantly higher in the indigenous community than elsewhere. And unfortunately since Rosie Batty became AoTY the content of her public offerings has changed dramatically, and been reduced to regurgitating the feminist narrative based on the much discredited Duluth model on domestic violence. Personally I would much prefer our society to tackle to broader issue of violence in our community, but that will not ensure the ongoing flow of very significant amounts of funding to various feminist groups and organisations with the associated well-paid positions that derive from them. The fact is that 85% of all victims of violence in our community are male, and at least 35% of victims of domestic violence are male, but there's no money in that story.....

Domestic violence in indigenous is a massive issue as you say. Shame we arent talking about it but talking about booing a bloke like Goodesy.

So you don't like Goodes or Batty. Nice one. Who do you like?

It isn't a pissing contest between victims groups. I think all victims groups should be heard, including males. None of them are ok in my books. You dont need to denigrate one group at the expense of another.

[Con Gorozidis]

True. Most of us are lucky enough not to be born black in this country, to be vilified and racially abused almost every day. This is the sad lot of some minorities in the community. Nobody denies there is racism and any rational feeling person understands and applaudes efforts to stamp it out.

In saying that, Goodes should not have used our game for his political purposes. He knows that there would be a backlash, especially inciting the crowd with an aggressive violent war dance.

he should retire immediately before he does any more damage to our game.

So now the mob is demanding Goodes retire? Why? Just because he makes us feel a little uncomfortable? I am still not sure what he has done wrong. Pretty much a regular good bloke who plays footy better than almost anyone. I dont see why people's heads are exploding over him.

[Dis Believer]

Domestic violence in indigenous is a massive issue as you say. Shame we arent talking about it but talking about booing a bloke like Goodesy.

So you don't like Goodes or Batty. Nice one. Who do you like?

It isn't a pissing contest between victims groups. I think all victims groups should be heard, including males. None of them are ok in my books. You dont need to denigrate one group at the expense of another.

Never said I didn't like Batty, or Goodes for that matter. You assigned that to me based on me not liking her recent speeches or his behaviour. I think he's an ordinary bloke, but that makes no difference to my life, I merely expressed an opinion. AN opinion which you don't like because I won't confirm to the leftist orthodoxy. And I am not "denigrating" victims - that's your phrase, not mine. And the fact that you want these people perceived through that prism of "victim" all the time is at the root of the problem.
By the way, what is "Goodesy" a victim of - being a millionaire footballer?

[Austinnn]

By the way, what is "Goodesy" a victim of - being a millionaire footballer?

Hahaha! Ye gods! Is this actually a serious question?

[saintspremiers]

Well said Bunk. Goodes is a cancer on our game and he's done is dash. Everyone is clearly fed up with his antics. Possibly even some Swine fans.

[plugger66]

Well said Bunk. Goodes is a cancer on our game and he's done is dash. Everyone is clearly fed up with his antics. Possibly even some Swine fans.

Cancer on the game? Sometimes you really say the dumbest things. What does he do that is a cancer on the game. List all these things to say such a dumb thing. Must be many to be called a cancer.

[Con Gorozidis]

Domestic violence in indigenous is a massive issue as you say. Shame we arent talking about it but talking about booing a bloke like Goodesy.

So you don't like Goodes or Batty. Nice one. Who do you like?

It isn't a pissing contest between victims groups. I think all victims groups should be heard, including males. None of them are ok in my books. You dont need to denigrate one group at the expense of another.

Never said I didn't like Batty, or Goodes for that matter. You assigned that to me based on me not liking her recent speeches or his behaviour. I think he's an ordinary bloke, but that makes no difference to my life, I merely expressed an opinion. AN opinion which you don't like because I won't confirm to the leftist orthodoxy. And I am not "denigrating" victims - that's your phrase, not mine. And the fact that you want these people perceived through that prism of "victim" all the time is at the root of the problem.
By the way, what is "Goodesy" a victim of - being a millionaire footballer?

I dont 'not like your opinion.' I dont even know what your opinion is. There is nothing 'leftist' about me just not wanting to be a dick.

You cite crime victim statistics then tell me I am looking through the prism of victims. That is the word used in crime stats. It isnt a prism. A victim is just a word used to describe someone who a crime was committed against. It isnt loaded at all in that context.

Frankly you are all over the shop and I cant make heads nor tails of it. Something ideological about not giving into lefty orthodoxy, something, something, something? Like the freedom to boo Goodes is some fundamental human right?

I am just saying dont boo the guy. That's it. It isnt that hard. Maybe only some people who boo are racist. So just dont join in. It isnt that hard. The mental gymnastics on display to justify the booing are just getting ridiculous. Booing is not some high minded right that needs defending.

"If we let them take away our booing then what next? The air we breath?"

[gringo]

[

You are lucky you aren't a voiceless person then. If the shoe was on the other foot most Australians would be going nuts at the lack of public interest in their plight. Soccer was Serbs and Croats fighting over ancient wars in homeland that the fans left decades ago. It was pointless and more about tribalism than any actual political platform. I know you are a bit of a lefty Bunk and can only imagine you are going contrary to what you consider the popular view point because you are usually a pretty reasonable thinker.

I am extremely lucky to be in the white majority. I have NEVER been shunned or racially abused in my country like Adam Goodes would have been, probably daily. I had a taste of that in Japan and I can tell you it is not nice.

So you just think I an being contrary for fun gringo?

Don't you think I would deliberately take this view just to be on the other side? No this is a personal opinion of being bullied by the AFL and having them accuse ALL fans who boo Goodes as ALL BEING RACIST.

I resent the way this is being portrayed as everyone who has a bad word to say about Goodes is a racist. It is the worst and most incorrect use of the race card I have ever seen play in Australia.

To make it worse, it is being played out on a place where everyone is supposed to be on the level playing field, the AFL.

This dumbing and attack dog mentality is showing how devisive and BAD Adam Goodes and his self indulgent antics are doing not only to our game but to relations with our indegeneous population.

There is little credit to be had on any side of this debate unfortunately.

In my opinion the players like Winmar gave the AFL an armchair ride into the world of progressiveness that other sports would have loved to have had. The AFL hasn't had much go right lately and must long for those days people like Demitriou were held up as beacons of righteousness. Poor old Gil is probably trying to wrestle back some of those values and spread them back around the fans. I thought he did well to say that we are better than that rather than finger point.

I don't think he thought anything he did would garner so much publicity and like Winmar and Freeman must wonder at times how little gestures become the biggest story of the day. I think there is an element of racism in it although it isn't universal but lumped together it is very ugly. I hated it when people would maliciously tear into Milne and think he must have had a horrible time in the quiet hours away from footy. Innocent or guilty he probably faced more of a penalty that other people who had been in the same situation.

I think Goodes is a well meaning proud man and he has probably bitten off more than he could chew with out even meaning to. Self indulgent how? By standing up for his people?

[Austinnn]

Here's where I stand: Goodes has evolved into what he is due to the vitrol heaped on him over time from the stands. Now the people on the stands condemn him for it.

I can see the difference between people booing for a push in the back or because they they think the player is a flog or because they hate that player with all their heart because of what he stands for, so can most people surely.

To accuse Adam Goodes of bullying a girl by pointing out that she is the face of racism is veering into the territory of victim-blaming and a wanton misread of the message - maybe because of previous prejudice against the messenger, maybe just a lack of refection: if you look at the whole of what Goodes has said about that issue, its consistent that he was supporting the girl, not condemning her. His action at the time a human reaction to what most people must be able to see is very hurtful: can you stand by while an innocent girl repeats the racist slogans of her parents/friends towards you? Would you just shrug your shoulders and get on with your work?

The dance: a ceremonial gesture fitting for a physical competition in a context where the issue of race is defused enough to contemplate having an Aboriginal Round, his politicising of the issue (which, once again, is directly related to the context of being an aboriginal player playing in a semi-aboriginal sport being booed over years by a population still not fully having come to terms with the concept of aboriginality that they are supposedly celebrating), should be as non-threatening as the Haaka, and the fact that it's not means that doing it has done Australia a huge favour, rather than just sweeping it under the carpet.

I am reminded of the black football players in Russia and Italy who have risked/recieved sanctions from their league for inciting crowd violence by standing up to monkey chants from the crowd by walking off or flipping the bird.

I think in years to come, Australia might celebrate the life and times of Adam Goodes, so it will be interesting to know the insight that you will give your kids or grandkids.

Con, Gringo, Saint Pav and others: thanks for explaining with more eloquence and stamina than I can muster. In the end, all of these posts are just opinions, no one has a monopoly on being right. You can think what you want. The idea in a debate is to convince the opposing side with your argument, not to control thought and I would have thought someone from the left side of the political spectrum would be above playing that "Though Control Left Wing" card that conservatives like to play when they can no longer hold their argument.

[Bunk_Moreland]

lol Con eloquent.

When confronted he called me a member of the KKK.

yeah wish I had that fantastic reason.

Quick I have an alternate view, call me a RACIST.

Hurry or I might have another alternate though on the christ child Goodes.

You people are bizarre

[plugger66]

lol Con eloquent.

When confronted he called me a member of the KKK.

yeah wish I had that fantastic reason.

Quick I have an alternate view, call me a RACIST.

Hurry or I might have another alternate though on the christ child Goodes.

You people are bizarre

I know BM doesn't need help and probably doesn't want mine but all I have read over the years on here suggests he isn't slightly racist.

[markp]

lol Con eloquent.

When confronted he called me a member of the KKK.

yeah wish I had that fantastic reason.

Quick I have an alternate view, call me a RACIST.

Hurry or I might have another alternate though on the christ child Goodes.

You people are bizarre

I know BM doesn't need help and probably doesn't want mine but all I have read over the years on here suggests he isn't slightly racist.

Or a conservative who plays the 'thought control left wing card'.

[Austinnn]

lol Con eloquent.

When confronted he called me a member of the KKK.

yeah wish I had that fantastic reason.

Quick I have an alternate view, call me a RACIST.

Hurry or I might have another alternate though on the christ child Goodes.

You people are bizarre

Playing the man, not the ball.

[Con Gorozidis]

lol Con eloquent.

When confronted he called me a member of the KKK.

yeah wish I had that fantastic reason.

Quick I have an alternate view, call me a RACIST.

Hurry or I might have another alternate though on the christ child Goodes.

You people are bizarre

I wasn't confronted in the slightest.

[Con Gorozidis]

Adam has been consistently booed since two things happened:

1. the AotY award; and
2. the 13 yo girl incident. This was heightened after the 'war dance.'

I think we have enough data to say the timing/trigger of the abuse is unambiguous. It is not in dispute. I do not give any credence to the arguments about his style of play. So I will address these two things and explain why they do not warrant him being booed.

1. the Aoty award - this one is easy. Adam didn't give himself the award. Once awarded, he felt an understandable responsibility to speak up for his people. It would be remiss of him not to raise some issues, even is this is uncomfortable to some people and 'mixes sport and politics.' Maybe it would have been better if he received the award after he finished playing, but I emphasise he did not give himself this award. Once awarded, he had no choice but to raise some issues on behalf of aboriginal people.

He doesn't deserve to be booed for that.

2. The 13yo girl one is a little more complex but it was a reasonable thing to do. When a 13yo girl feels safe and comfortable enough to call someone a 'black ape' in public then that is indicative of a serious casual racism across society. By fingering a 13yo girl, he made it all our problem. If he fingered a drunk 40yo male, it would be easy for us all to wave it away as just 'one idiot in the crowd.' This would be a lie. When a 13yo girl feels safe and comfortable enough to do this - it is a sign that racism is casual and endemic. People need to face this uncomfortable truth. This is not about the individual girl. I would add that nobody knows her name and Adam spoke with her afterwards. But Adam highlighted the issue. Crowd racial abuse has not gone away. It is still there. The fact a 13yo girl felt ok enough to do it proves it. This highlights the point. She didnt even realise it wasnt ok. She just picked up from the crowd or at home. Either way, at 13, she already thought it was ok. Facing this is everyone's problem, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable.

Adam does not deserve to be booed for this.

Everything else is pretty much white noise.

[Armoooo]

The latest chapter in the Goodes saga has finally done it for me.

I don't know whether the penny has finally dropped or who know, maybe I've been brainwashed by the liberal media but I see know this really is about race.

Seeing the attitudes on here alongside the crap being posted on Facebook and Twitter has really opened my eyes to the racist attitudes that are so deeply ingrained I don't think people realise they're doing anything wrong.

I'm not going to claim that I now understand the complex issues facing indigenous people as I am as ignorant now as I have ever been but I can at least now admit I don't understand... If more people could just admit their ignorance I think we would have a far better chance of overcoming these societal issues.

If you truly aren't racist but hate Goodes that's fine but you need to ask yourself whether he is a big enough d**khead to cop the s*** he's getting now.

[Con Gorozidis]

Look at the comments section on here and tell me people arent racist.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/a ... 7460476160

[Bunk_Moreland]

Probably all members of the KKK

You people are truly bizarre.

You are like the Tories in the 70's who just shouted COMMUNIST at everyone and thought they were morally superior and had won the argument.

Must be so nice to live in your glass houses.

Signed the Grand Wizard of the Melbourne KKK chapter. Anyone got a burning cross about?

Con is not confronted. lol of course he is the one labelling racists and members of the KKK.

Good one champ. Your moral superiority shines through. Too bad it didn't the day your defamed and vilified Adam Schneider.

Oh but that was different wasn't it.

[Bunk_Moreland]

2. The 13yo girl one is a little more complex but it was a reasonable thing to do. When a 13yo girl feels safe and comfortable enough to call someone a 'black ape' in public then that is indicative of a serious casual racism across society. By fingering a 13yo girl, he made it all our problem. If he fingered a drunk 40yo male, it would be easy for us all to wave it away as just 'one idiot in the crowd.' This would be a lie. When a 13yo girl feels safe and comfortable enough to do this - it is a sign that racism is casual and endemic. People need to face this uncomfortable truth. This is not about the individual girl. I would add that nobody knows her name and Adam spoke with her afterwards. But Adam highlighted the issue. Crowd racial abuse has not gone away. It is still there. The fact a 13yo girl felt ok enough to do it proves it. This highlights the point. She didnt even realise it wasnt ok. She just picked up from the crowd or at home. Either way, at 13, she already thought it was ok. Facing this is everyone's problem, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable.

Adam does not deserve to be booed for this.

Everything else is pretty much white noise.

This is an out an out falsehood. She never used the word "black at all" That is just a deliberate lie.

She called him a big ape. THat certainly has racist connotations and if she was the example you used of a 40 y.o man there would be absolutley no excuse

the fact was that even Goodes acknowledged she probably didn't know it was racist. She need to be educated. You dont hang a kid for being ignorant.

But that is EXACTLY Goodes did the next day. He knew she was a 13 y.o. kid and went on National TV and vilified her with his political statement of her being "the face of racism in Australia".

That was acceptable and totally bullying of an ignorant silly child.

But hey you use lies and distortions for your own purposes and halfbaked straw man arguments. you built your argument on a complete falsehood.

It was a disgraceful thing to do just to back up your lame and shabby arguments. You should be ashamed of yourself and you prove my point of the zealotry and groupthink mindset of the righteous and moral high ground distorters and name callers on this thread and in this argument.

Disgraceful

[Con Gorozidis]

2. The 13yo girl one is a little more complex but it was a reasonable thing to do. When a 13yo girl feels safe and comfortable enough to call someone a 'black ape' in public then that is indicative of a serious casual racism across society. By fingering a 13yo girl, he made it all our problem. If he fingered a drunk 40yo male, it would be easy for us all to wave it away as just 'one idiot in the crowd.' This would be a lie. When a 13yo girl feels safe and comfortable enough to do this - it is a sign that racism is casual and endemic. People need to face this uncomfortable truth. This is not about the individual girl. I would add that nobody knows her name and Adam spoke with her afterwards. But Adam highlighted the issue. Crowd racial abuse has not gone away. It is still there. The fact a 13yo girl felt ok enough to do it proves it. This highlights the point. She didnt even realise it wasnt ok. She just picked up from the crowd or at home. Either way, at 13, she already thought it was ok. Facing this is everyone's problem, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable.

Adam does not deserve to be booed for this.

Everything else is pretty much white noise.

This is an out an out falsehood. She never used the word "black at all" That is just a deliberate lie.

She called him a big ape. THat certainly has racist connotations and if she was the example you used of a 40 y.o man there would be absolutley no excuse

the fact was that even Goodes acknowledged she probably didn't know it was racist. She need to be educated. You dont hang a kid for being ignorant.

But that is EXACTLY Goodes did the next day. He knew she was a 13 y.o. kid and went on National TV and vilified her with his political statement of her being "the face of racism in Australia".

That was acceptable and totally bullying of an ignorant silly child.

But hey you use lies and distortions for your own purposes and halfbaked straw man arguments. you built your argument on a complete falsehood.

It was a disgraceful thing to do just to back up your lame and shabby arguments. You should be ashamed of yourself and you prove my point of the zealotry and groupthink mindset of the righteous and moral high ground distorters and name callers on this thread and in this argument.

Disgraceful

I am neither moral or self-righteous. But booing Adam is racist. Last time I look she wasnt 'hung' and noone knows her name. My argument holds regardless of the precise terminology. As you say - it is not acceptable from a 40yo male. The fact a 13yo girl thinks it is ok suggests casual racism is still out there. Calling out a 40yo male would make it much easier to brush under the carpet. You haven't grasped this.

Was it unfair on the girl? Yes, I think it was - there are thousands of people out there just like her - so she was very unlucky. But if you are worried about fairness, which you claim to be, then start thinking about the 'fairness' of racial abuse. If Adam cops it imagine what a regular aboriginal dude cops.

Now feel free to outline the case 'For' booing. I have put up a case. You have mouthed off. So do your best.