Why go down the trade path now?

[ripplug66]

Tell you whats funny ... Carlton keeping kreuzer, melbourne chasing melksham, pies losing freeman chasing trelor. what are they doing.
Trelor is overated. They are paying overs for him.

His is certainly not overated and what ever they pay they will be in front.

[citywest]

What everyone is forgetting is that you need to setup the base with elite 18 year olds first. Then you go down the path of trading and FA's. Hawthorn were crap for years and lapped up all the early draft picks. Once they got to the top that's when they started cherry picking players. St Kilda are still 2 years away from that point. I believe that we should still keep hitting the ND, at least with our first 2 picks (5/6 & 23/24. Offer Collingfilth our third round pick 41ish and next years third round pick for Freeman. With Carlisle, straight swap for Hickey.

[ripplug66]

What everyone is forgetting is that you need to setup the base with elite 18 year olds first. Then you go down the path of trading and FA's. Hawthorn were crap for years and lapped up all the early draft picks. Once they got to the top that's when they started cherry picking players. St Kilda are still 2 years away from that point. I believe that we should still keep hitting the ND, at least with our first 2 picks (5/6 & 23/24. Offer Collingfilth our third round pick 41ish and next years third round pick for Freeman. With Carlisle, straight swap for Hickey.

Why do they have to be 18? As long as they have a 10 year career it doesn't matter what age they are.

[citywest]

What everyone is forgetting is that you need to setup the base with elite 18 year olds first. Then you go down the path of trading and FA's. Hawthorn were crap for years and lapped up all the early draft picks. Once they got to the top that's when they started cherry picking players. St Kilda are still 2 years away from that point. I believe that we should still keep hitting the ND, at least with our first 2 picks (5/6 & 23/24. Offer Collingfilth our third round pick 41ish and next years third round pick for Freeman. With Carlisle, straight swap for Hickey.

Why do they have to be 18? As long as they have a 10 year career it doesn't matter what age they are.

I'll tell you why, because all players (except Brent Harvey, Kevin Bartlett and Michael Tuck) are more injury prone the older they get. Say for example we grab Carlisle. By the time 2020 comes around when we will be challenging, he will be 30. If we draft Kieran Collins instead, he will be 24 and at the peak of his powers.

[gringo]

What everyone is forgetting is that you need to setup the base with elite 18 year olds first. Then you go down the path of trading and FA's. Hawthorn were crap for years and lapped up all the early draft picks. Once they got to the top that's when they started cherry picking players. St Kilda are still 2 years away from that point. I believe that we should still keep hitting the ND, at least with our first 2 picks (5/6 & 23/24. Offer Collingfilth our third round pick 41ish and next years third round pick for Freeman. With Carlisle, straight swap for Hickey.

Why do they have to be 18? As long as they have a 10 year career it doesn't matter what age they are.

I'll tell you why, because all players (except Brent Harvey, Kevin Bartlett and Michael Tuck) are more injury prone the older they get. Say for example we grab Carlisle. By the time 2020 comes around when we will be challenging, he will be 30. If we draft Kieran Collins instead, he will be 24 and at the peak of his powers.

Except Carlisle is close to a guaranteed player and Collins is untried and might not even get to us in the draft. I think you get the quality when its available. Sydney and Hawthorn don't mind cherry picking players based on needs and it seems to have worked out okay for them.

[SMS]

Um Carlisle is 23, he'll be 28 years old for the entire 2020 season.

Perfect.

We need carlisle and freeman.

Hope they get it done for second round pick at most.

[ripplug66]

What everyone is forgetting is that you need to setup the base with elite 18 year olds first. Then you go down the path of trading and FA's. Hawthorn were crap for years and lapped up all the early draft picks. Once they got to the top that's when they started cherry picking players. St Kilda are still 2 years away from that point. I believe that we should still keep hitting the ND, at least with our first 2 picks (5/6 & 23/24. Offer Collingfilth our third round pick 41ish and next years third round pick for Freeman. With Carlisle, straight swap for Hickey.

Why do they have to be 18? As long as they have a 10 year career it doesn't matter what age they are.

I'll tell you why, because all players (except Brent Harvey, Kevin Bartlett and Michael Tuck) are more injury prone the older they get. Say for example we grab Carlisle. By the time 2020 comes around when we will be challenging, he will be 30. If we draft Kieran Collins instead, he will be 24 and at the peak of his powers.

I reckon most KPP reach their pick around 27 or 28 years of age. My maths is pretty good and he will be 28 for the whole of the 2020 season. We know at his best he can play. We may not even get who you want in the draft and even if we do there is no certainty they will make it at AFL level. Did you every player you mentioned last year get traded or have they shown great ability? Even people who see these sides play weekly get 50% wrong.

We aren't talking about guys just filling spots here like Polo, Carlisle at his best is a proven very good KPP.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Neither Parish or Collins will be available come #5 and our second.

OP assumption completely shot

[saintsRrising]

Pelchen was all about getting in good AND also undervalued talent of an age that they can build together to be a contender.


It is just rubbish to think that this can only be done by low draft picks and that this was Pelchens only intention.

Indeed you saw when Pelchen was there that he traded in players who had already played at AFL level.

[saintsRrising]

Um Carlisle is 23, he'll be 28 years old for the entire 2020 season.

Perfect.

We need carlisle and freeman.

Hope they get it done for second round pick at most.

Exactly.


What we need to do now is to reinforce the pool of young talent we have recently built up.

No one builds success by spending an era on the bottom.

[saintsRrising]

What everyone is forgetting is that you need to setup the base with elite 18 year olds first. Then you go down the path of trading and FA's. Hawthorn were crap for years and lapped up all the early draft picks. .

Hawthorn were not crap for years. They dipped down, did not even finish last, unless you go back prior to the sixties.

Finishing Position Year Tally
Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008, 2013, 2014 12
Grand Finalist 1963, 1975, 1984, 1985, 1987, 2012 6
3 1957, 1974, 1977, 1982, 2011 5
4 2001 1
5 1943, 1960, 1964, 1969, 1990 5
6 1958, 1968, 1972, 1981, 1992, 1993, 2000, 2007 8
7 1956, 1959, 1973, 1979, 1994, 2010 6
8 1937, 1955, 1970, 1980, 1996 5
9 1936, 1940, 1954, 1962, 1966, 1999, 2003, 2009 8
10 1929, 1930, 1935, 1939, 1945, 1967, 2002 7
11 1926, 1931, 1933, 1934, 1938, 1942, 1944, 1947, 1948, 1951, 1952, 2006 12
12 1925, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1941, 1946, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1965 10
13 1998 1
14 2005 1
15 1995, 1997, 2004 3
16 - 0
17 - 0
18 - 0


You are exposuing that we follow a path that the Hawks never did.

The Saints last four ladder finishes have been 9th, 16th , 18th, 14th has already outdone the Hawks skump in the early naughties!
If we are meant to be following their ladder position history we need to be finishing higher each year from now on.....and not trying to finsih low to get earlier picks

[citywest]

Hawthorn
2004 - 15th (second last)
2005 - 14th (third last)
2006 - 11th (sixth last)

St Kilda
2013 - 16th (third last)
2014 - 18th (last)
2015 - 14th (fifth last)

The path we are following looks very similar to me. The only difference now is there is no priority pick.

[saintsRrising]

Hawthorn
2004 - 15th (second last)
2005 - 14th (third last)
2006 - 11th (sixth last)

St Kilda
2013 - 16th (third last)
2014 - 18th (last)
2015 - 14th (fifth last)

The path we are following looks very similar to me. The only difference now is there is no priority pick.

Yes they are similar if we go UP from here. (Which is my point)

But you have been advocating that we need to stay DOWN. (Which is your point and why your approach is not the same as the Hawks...for this and other reasons).

[saintsRrising]

If we say traded out: Picks 5, 2nd round this year and first round next year.

And got in say Carlisle, Freeman, Kelly and Essendons 2nd rounder that would be a good injection of talent for a reasonable price.

Maybe Bains may even get the deal down at a cheaper trade price.

With the age profile of our list now there is no reason to just concentrate on 18 year olds...and indeed if we want to mimic the Hawks and pinch a flag early we need a few more good 20-23 year olds now.

If we can build our list quickly then we can take advantage of players like Steven who vy start of next season will be almost 26. Take too long rebuilding and players like him and Armo will drop off and you will end up just permanently chasing your tail.

[asiu]

18 times in a granny in my lifetime.
lol
40 times in the top 8

Way.
... how good are those numbers.
Fair dink.

[Con Gorozidis]

I am wondering if Andrew Gaff is someone we might chase as a FA in a couple of years?

[magnifisaint]

To the top to the very top!

[magnifisaint]

To the top to the very top!

[samuraisaint]

What everyone is forgetting is that you need to setup the base with elite 18 year olds first. Then you go down the path of trading and FA's. Hawthorn were crap for years and lapped up all the early draft picks. Once they got to the top that's when they started cherry picking players. St Kilda are still 2 years away from that point. I believe that we should still keep hitting the ND, at least with our first 2 picks (5/6 & 23/24. Offer Collingfilth our third round pick 41ish and next years third round pick for Freeman. With Carlisle, straight swap for Hickey.

The first part of your post I agree with totally.
Totally disagree with trading our best ruckman to Essendon while the WADA investigation is still proceeding. We can grab a youngster in the draft who could fill that position.

[prwilkinson]

Weren't Freeman and Carlisle both first round picks when they went? Both still have their career's well and truly ahead of them.

[samuraisaint]

Hawthorn
2004 - 15th (second last)
2005 - 14th (third last)
2006 - 11th (sixth last)

St Kilda
2013 - 16th (third last)
2014 - 18th (last)
2015 - 14th (fifth last)

The path we are following looks very similar to me. The only difference now is there is no priority pick.

Yes they are similar if we go UP from here. (Which is my point)

But you have been advocating that we need to stay DOWN. (Which is your point and why your approach is not the same as the Hawks...for this and other reasons).

Unfortunately guys I don't think we are going to improve much next season, if at all. Some of our new recruits may go through the second year blues, and our veterans are now well and truly at an age when they don't get better. We got a great season out of Armitage and if he can keep that form up, and if Steven can step up we should win 5-7 matches, but it is difficult to see where the improvement will come from. Guys who were once seen as having potential have been delisted, and Schneider has retired. We will probably finish bottom four or five again next year I think.

[samuraisaint]

Weren't Freeman and Carlisle both first round picks when they went? Both still have their career's well and truly ahead of them.

We may get Freeman, but I think Carlisle is Whitten Oval-bound.

[magnifisaint]

Weren't Freeman and Carlisle both first round picks when they went? Both still have their career's well and truly ahead of them.

We may get Freeman, but I think Carlisle is Whitten Oval-bound.

they can't fit him in the cap

[Rosco]

*without losing multiple mids in the next two years

[magnifisaint]

I'm starting to think that we should forget about Carlisle and try to draft in a couple more key defenders. Maybe get Talia from the Bullfrogs as he has some talent. Use our first pick on an elite mid and give Colonwood our 3rd rounder for Freeman.