Lower your expectations of what Freeman achieves this year

[st.byron]

Bluthy by the length of the straight here.

Plugger, know when you're done and give up...

BM. Same for you. Leave off the personal gibes. B-O-R-I-N-G.

[loris]

I think that was Rumsfeld, Loris.

Your not wrong whiskers shows my interest and knowledge of American politics eh? Zilch!

[BigMart]

Freeman - several weeks away

[ripplug66]

Freeman - several weeks away

There is plenty of time. He isn't even 21.

[Wrote for Luck]

there has to be concerns at least how far behind Freeman has fallen and may continue to fall unless he gets into AFL games.
surely developmentally if you are not getting into games you are not sufficiently working on your craft.
players like Newnes and Dunstan got straight into it, clocked up the games, and identified and worked on what they needed to work on. and their games continue to progress.
imo if he doesn't get games this year and get on the developmental conveyor belt, it will become less likely for him.

[Bluthy]

there has to be concerns at least how far behind Freeman has fallen and may continue to fall unless he gets into AFL games.
surely developmentally if you are not getting into games you are not sufficiently working on your craft.
players like Newnes and Dunstan got straight into it, clocked up the games, and identified and worked on what they needed to work on. and their games continue to progress.
imo if he doesn't get games this year and get on the developmental conveyor belt, it will become less likely for him.

Spot on Millar. A lot of people miss this with their eyes lit up by the "top ten" tag. Same as Carlisle - oh he just misses a year that doesn't matter for the club. Players develop and bond by playing genuine competitive footy. And Freeman really needs to play some footy for his development and his mindset - he needs to feel like a footy player contributing to a team not someone just taking their pay packet each fortnight for training. That's why I think its safest he goes through the VFL - which is looking more and more likely with the continued delays getting into full training.

[ripplug66]

there has to be concerns at least how far behind Freeman has fallen and may continue to fall unless he gets into AFL games.
surely developmentally if you are not getting into games you are not sufficiently working on your craft.
players like Newnes and Dunstan got straight into it, clocked up the games, and identified and worked on what they needed to work on. and their games continue to progress.
imo if he doesn't get games this year and get on the developmental conveyor belt, it will become less likely for him.

Spot on Millar. A lot of people miss this with their eyes lit up by the "top ten" tag. Same as Carlisle - oh he just misses a year that doesn't matter for the club. Players develop and bond by playing genuine competitive footy. And Freeman really needs to play some footy for his development and his mindset - he needs to feel like a footy player contributing to a team not someone just taking their pay packet each fortnight for training. That's why I think its safest he goes through the VFL - which is looking more and more likely with the continued delays getting into full training.

Bluthy surely you aren't comparing a player who has never played AFL footy to a guy who has had 6 years in the system. Carlisle will not have an issue at all and I still don't see Freeman having an issue if he gets his body right. It isn't as if he hasn't trained in the last 2 years. He knows running patterns and would have done a huge amount of weights as well as all the development work. And he may certainly start in the VFL. I don't one person who has said he definitely wont. Players develop and bond because they spend all week together and not just 2 hours on a Saturday.

[saintspremiers]

Saints Facebook says he's still a few weeks away from full training and is a "work in progress" whatever that really means.

On the positive, we "only" gave up our second round pick for next next not our first

[Bluthy]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2016-01-2 ... s-on-track

Off-season recruit Nathan Freeman still remains a work in progress, with the highly-rated midfield prospect continuing the rehabilitation program for his troublesome hamstrings.
Freeman arrived at Linen House Centre during last October’s trade period after two fruitless seasons at Collingwood that were plagued by persistent hamstring related injuries.
Wallis is confident the former top-ten draft pick will get on top of the frustrating issue soon and transition into full training with the main group in the coming weeks.
“We’re progressing slowly with Nathan. He’s had recurrent hamstrings over the journey, but is doing well at the moment,” Wallis said.
“He’s working with the strength and conditioning guys to get his speed and agility up.
“We imagine that he’ll be back in full training in several weeks and then the aim is to see how he progresses with that.”

Work in progress - I like that. With his chronic injuries and lack of any competitive games, he's sort of a lump of clay (good quality clay at that) that we need to do a lot more moulding before he becomes an AFL player. And why is there even a spot for him in the firsts straight away if they consider him ok for selection? We've got really got competition for spots on our list now - guys with games under their belt and good AFL tanks. I could see Freeman taking all year to really fight his way into the seniors the way Acres has been doing whilst carefully watching his body. That might even be a good thing so he's not too FIGJAM.

[Bluthy]

Bluthy surely you aren't comparing a player who has never played AFL footy to a guy who has had 6 years in the system. Carlisle will not have an issue at all and I still don't see Freeman having an issue if he gets his body right. It isn't as if he hasn't trained in the last 2 years. He knows running patterns and would have done a huge amount of weights as well as all the development work. And he may certainly start in the VFL. I don't one person who has said he definitely wont. Players develop and bond because they spend all week together and not just 2 hours on a Saturday.

So you really think there is "no issue at all" about Carlisle missing a season or are you just trolling? "No issue" about missing a season of development footy for a 23 y.o with only 85 games under his belt ? "No issue" about learning to lock in with Goddard, Roberton, Geary, Webster et all to be that rock solid back six all premiership coaches talk about being the rock of their success? "No issue" with St Kilda wanting to work out his optimal position/role - full back, CHB, on the biggest best player or more free floating, does he go forward etc - that will take experimenting and time?

That's a ludicrous statement and I think you're either trolling or just not thinking things through as usual and spitting back a reply in seconds. I'm sure as soon as the club heard about the suspension they just brushed it off with "no issue at all I can see"

[Spinner]

Bluthy surely you aren't comparing a player who has never played AFL footy to a guy who has had 6 years in the system. Carlisle will not have an issue at all and I still don't see Freeman having an issue if he gets his body right. It isn't as if he hasn't trained in the last 2 years. He knows running patterns and would have done a huge amount of weights as well as all the development work. And he may certainly start in the VFL. I don't one person who has said he definitely wont. Players develop and bond because they spend all week together and not just 2 hours on a Saturday.

So you really think there is "no issue at all" about Carlisle missing a season or are you just trolling? "No issue" about missing a season of development footy for a 23 y.o with only 85 games under his belt ? "No issue" about learning to lock in with Goddard, Roberton, Geary, Webster et all to be that rock solid back six all premiership coaches talk about being the rock of their success? "No issue" with St Kilda wanting to work out his optimal position/role - full back, CHB, on the biggest best player or more free floating, does he go forward etc - that will take experimenting and time?

That's a ludicrous statement and I think you're either trolling or just not thinking things through as usual and spitting back a reply in seconds. I'm sure as soon as the club heard about the suspension they just brushed it off with "no issue at all I can see"

Yep it's such a major issue they should just delist Carlisle now because it will never work by missing a year. He won't be able to fit into the structure, he'll miss too much development and they will never know his true role.

What an over-reactive post.

[ripplug66]

Bluthy surely you aren't comparing a player who has never played AFL footy to a guy who has had 6 years in the system. Carlisle will not have an issue at all and I still don't see Freeman having an issue if he gets his body right. It isn't as if he hasn't trained in the last 2 years. He knows running patterns and would have done a huge amount of weights as well as all the development work. And he may certainly start in the VFL. I don't one person who has said he definitely wont. Players develop and bond because they spend all week together and not just 2 hours on a Saturday.

So you really think there is "no issue at all" about Carlisle missing a season or are you just trolling? "No issue" about missing a season of development footy for a 23 y.o with only 85 games under his belt ? "No issue" about learning to lock in with Goddard, Roberton, Geary, Webster et all to be that rock solid back six all premiership coaches talk about being the rock of their success? "No issue" with St Kilda wanting to work out his optimal position/role - full back, CHB, on the biggest best player or more free floating, does he go forward etc - that will take experimenting and time?

That's a ludicrous statement and I think you're either trolling or just not thinking things through as usual and spitting back a reply in seconds. I'm sure as soon as the club heard about the suspension they just brushed it off with "no issue at all I can see"

Lenny won a B&F after missing a year with injury, Carlisle isn't even injured. Its no worry at all. If it is such a ludicrous statement we must have many examples where missing less than 7 months training has effected a guys career. I look forward to all those examples. As ive said before you can take all day to reply and still get rubbish answers.

The funny thing Bluthy is when you writte you write as if players just turn up on game day and learn how to play. Without being rude I think you need to listen to players who say pre season training is the most important training and missing that can stuff up your year. I think they may actually play many practice games and do plenty of theory in that time. I can tell from you posts you think you don't lack confidence but I reckon players have more knowledge than you when talking about the importance of pre season traing. Carlise will have 2 pre seasons before he next plays. He will know everything that you seem worried about.

There is not one issue at all in Carlisle missing a season. To suggest otherwise especially if you cant give examples suggests you like going way over the top. I think we have seem plenty of proof. Saying I'm trolling just suggests that for all your bravado you really lack confidence in your opinions and by mentioning that you hope to get others backing you. I write what I think so I wont suggest anything like that about you.

[Bluthy]

Yep it's such a major issue they should just delist Carlisle now because it will never work by missing a year. He won't be able to fit into the structure, he'll miss too much development and they will never know his true role.

What an over-reactive post.

Speaking of over-reactive posts. It's pure common sense to say Jake missing a year of footy is a set back. I doubt there is anyone in the footy world who would disagree apart from the rabid pro-Carlisle crowd on this board who have simply refused to acknowledge anything negative about Jake from the get to. I understand why Richo would try and spin it as a positive - there is a lot of ass covering going on there where you already had a controversial trade for a guy battling a court case for systematic doping and now they lose him for a whole year. But that doesn't mean supporters have to swallow it down whole.

ARe you seriously saying Jake would not have benefited from another 22 games under belt this year playing with his new defensive line and other team-mates like Plugger is saying its "no issue"? Its pure common sense that he would. The next step for Jakes journey is to become a more consistent and mature player and cement himself as one of the premier big backmen in the competition. He's got all the tools but until you can do it at the elite level in competition it means nothing - just ask Jack Watts. Carlisle misses a whole season of being able to take those vital steps. I'm on record as saying the suspension is not a disaster. But it is a setback same as Billings missing a big chunk of last year. Setback happens to all players. Why pretend otherwise, its really weird.

[st.byron]

I'm on record as saying the suspension is not a disaster. But it is a setback same as Billings missing a big chunk of last year. Setback happens to all players.

I agree with this. Carlisle's suspension is not a positive and is a setback. However, many players miss a season and come back without a problem and he's not even injured. Just needs to stay on the rails whilst he's got no support and structure from the club.

[ripplug66]

Yep it's such a major issue they should just delist Carlisle now because it will never work by missing a year. He won't be able to fit into the structure, he'll miss too much development and they will never know his true role.

What an over-reactive post.

Speaking of over-reactive posts. It's pure common sense to say Jake missing a year of footy is a set back. I doubt there is anyone in the footy world who would disagree apart from the rabid pro-Carlisle crowd on this board who have simply refused to acknowledge anything negative about Jake from the get to. I understand why Richo would try and spin it as a positive - there is a lot of ass covering going on there where you already had a controversial trade for a guy battling a court case for systematic doping and now they lose him for a whole year. But that doesn't mean supporters have to swallow it down whole.

ARe you seriously saying Jake would not have benefited from another 22 games under belt this year playing with his new defensive line and other team-mates like Plugger is saying its "no issue"? Its pure common sense that he would. The next step for Jakes journey is to become a more consistent and mature player and cement himself as one of the premier big backmen in the competition. He's got all the tools but until you can do it at the elite level in competition it means nothing - just ask Jack Watts. Carlisle misses a whole season of being able to take those vital steps. I'm on record as saying the suspension is not a disaster. But it is a setback same as Billings missing a big chunk of last year. Setback happens to all players. Why pretend otherwise, its really weird.

I'm not pro Carlisle but I'm against people making statements that have no proof. Carlisle missing games will not have any effect next season. He isn't injured. He is a 7th year player next season. He will have had nearly 2 pre seasons. His brain will be his issue not his lack of playing for a year because he will have trained 5 months at least before his next game. He will have also played maybe 10 practice games before his next game.

[Bluthy]

I'm not pro Carlisle but I'm against people making statements that have no proof. Carlisle missing games will not have any effect next season. He isn't injured. He is a 7th year player next season. He will have had nearly 2 pre seasons. His brain will be his issue not his lack of playing for a year because he will have trained 5 months at least before his next game. He will have also played maybe 10 practice games before his next game.

I honestly don't believe you believe this. I think its a combination of stubbornness, argumentative for the sake of it, Carlisle support at all costs and just going against me. Enjoy you little games.

Anyway this is the Freeman thread and he needs to get games under his belt for the same reason. You just don't develop the muscle memory and instinct you need at elite sport unless you play games at full intensity. Its hard to describe but there is just something that sinks into your bones that makes you able to make those split second decisions and be creative and damaging that only experience gives you. And you need to find out where you are failing and work on that to keep going to the next level. With experience you kind of find your centre and are able to see patterns of play instinctively. Musicians say the same thing. You can practice all you want but it nothing compared to being in the heat of the kitchen in front of an audience to give you your chops.

[BigMart]

Comparing Carlisle to Lenny Hayes now?

[ripplug66]

Comparing Carlisle to Lenny Hayes now?

No. Comparing time off.

[Goose is king]

I have massive expectations for Freeman this year.
Top ten draft pick of the most recent super draft.

[BigMart]

I think what Lenny Hayes did in his time off and what Jake Carlisle does are not going to be remotely similar. On 3 fronts.

One was a champion of the game, who could probably have returned from near death to all Australian
The other is an undisciplined and inconsistent 24yo who has some potential, but is clearly immature.

One was a loyal captain of a club who spent every other minute at the club doing rehab with the medicos
The other walked away from a club, has been banned from Entering the facility and is unable to be assisted by club staff

One player is Lenny Hayes, a respected man who cared
The other is not and probably does not... Well not as much anyway!!!

It's a poor comparison ... Yes they both were out for a year
Different circumstances and different people.

How well did
Justin Koschitzke return from injury?
Justin Charles return from drug suspension?
Ahmed Saad return, Ben Cousins return, Barry Hall return, Brendon Fevola return etc...

Every situation is different

[ripplug66]

I don't get your examples. Anyway the time our wont effect carlisle physically. How could it? It will be in his head.

[magnifisaint]

The fact that there's a thread on Freeman telling people to lower their expectations has created such interest that in fact heightened people's awareness of him thus raising their expectations on his output for the following season, either good or bad.

[Bluthy]

The fact that there's a thread on Freeman telling people to lower their expectations has created such interest that in fact it's heightened people's awareness of him thus raising their expectations on his output for the following season, either good or bad.

Saints supporters when he finally plays a game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTB46FJOF5w

[To the top]

You look at this site periodically to see if there is any information not in the media (including because St Kilda just do not get the exposure of other certain other Clubs).

Then you read personal assessments including "The other is an undisciplined and inconsistent 24 year old who has some potential, but is clearly immature".

"The other walked away from a Club, has been banned from entering the facility and is unable to be assisted by club staff"

"The other is not" (a respected man who cared) and probably does not ... Well not much anyway!!!"

Yes, Carlisle commenced his career at Essendon because they chose him, not him choosing them.

And the outcome of Essendon choosing him has been what it has been (as it has with 33 other players who are in exactly the same position as Carlisle except in regards a couple who, like Carlisle, chose to leave Essendon.

And he chose to come to St Kilda, no doubt after his management was entertained to arrive at that decision.

The description applied to him for having a decision made for him (joining Essendon) and then making that decision to join St Kilda is unbelievable - and, quite frankly, with supporters such as this it is no wonder St Kilda has the record it has.

For me, I look forward to Carlisle returning to training in September and actually pulling on a St Kilda jumper in 2017 including because, over recent seasons I have seen our defense "monstored" by other Clubs including by pushing ruck men forward - and that Fisher is probably in his last season in 2016.

So let's support the guy who made HIS decision to come to St Kilda - and let's look forward to his contribution before describing him as he has been described.

In terms of Freeman, match fitness no doubt is being worked on by people with knowledge so we look forward to him also running onto the field wearing a St Kilda jumper (again HIS decision).

Match fitness is one thing - class is another.

You do not lose class.

So the Club knows what has to be achieved - and I, for one, have confidence that they are diligently working to the desired outcome - Freeman contributing to the St Kilda mission with dash, class and poise.

The prospect of Carlisle and Freeman in a St Kilda side will improve St Kilda - and, from where we have been and currently are, we need to improve so I look forwatd to the contributions of Carlisle and Freeman - and others I expect will improve significantly over coming seasons.

It is time for success!!!

[whiskers3614]

Great to see your optimism and positivity re Carlisle TTT, however the bloke's past history doesn't exactly lead to confidence in how he will use his time off.

Really hope I'm wrong but have a strong negative feeling about Carlisle's future.
Mind you I wasn't rapt in us getting Gardiner either and that almost ended in glory.