Gresham

[Bunk_Moreland]

Yeh we like Gresh very muchly. Given how good he looks as an 18 year old and assuming Carlisle works out next year an is an elite key backman for us and in the prime age bracket, how are we feeling about the pick 5 trade?

You have to look at who was available at #5. Parish was gone. Do we need another Francis type? No sure. MaybecAh Chee or Rioli?
We need mids and Gresham seems a pretty good pick. So maybe it will work if we ever get Carlisle on the bloody park

[Bluthy]

So are we expecting The Gresh to have as good a debut season as Dunstan did??

We will have a lot of competition for spots this year -if Gresham plays who misses - Ross, Dunston, Acres or Weller?

This is my point. I think Gresham has to earn his spot. First of all he has to show he can run out a full game against men which he hasn't done yet. Then he has to show some solid form to force someone out. I think he'll start in the VFL but will probably start putting pressure straight away on the likes of Acres, Weller, Ross, Sinclair.

[Bunk_Moreland]

So are we expecting The Gresh to have as good a debut season as Dunstan did??

We will have a lot of competition for spots this year -if Gresham plays who misses - Ross, Dunston, Acres or Weller?

This is my point. I think Gresham has to earn his spot. First of all he has to show he can run out a full game against men which he hasn't done yet. Then he has to show some solid form to force someone out. I think he'll start in the VFL but will probably start putting pressure straight away on the likes of Acres, Weller, Ross, Sinclair.

And isn't that a good thing. We are starting to talk about competition gor spots. Slow burn rebuild but it is starting to bear fruit.

[BackFromUSA]

I hate the idea of Nick playing on the wing... Makes no sense

Still think they are playing mind games with other clubs and that he will play majority as a high half forward for transition plays from our backline. While resting he will play deep tall forward.

[saint-stu]

So are we expecting The Gresh to have as good a debut season as Dunstan did??

We will have a lot of competition for spots this year -if Gresham plays who misses - Ross, Dunston, Acres or Weller?

This is my point. I think Gresham has to earn his spot. First of all he has to show he can run out a full game against men which he hasn't done yet. Then he has to show some solid form to force someone out. I think he'll start in the VFL but will probably start putting pressure straight away on the likes of Acres, Weller, Ross, Sinclair.

And isn't that a good thing. We are starting to talk about competition gor spots. Slow burn rebuild but it is starting to bear fruit.

We have a lot of depth in players who are about at the same level but are not stars. Looking back, it seems the 2 for 1 trades were probably not the right way to go. We need more quality now.

[dragit]

We have a lot of depth in players who are about at the same level but are not stars. Looking back, it seems the 2 for 1 trades were probably not the right way to go. We need more quality now.

Exactly, fierce competition between non-AFL standard players doesn't help us at all.

Easier in hindsight, but if you could take Lonergan & Grundy rather than Hickey, Lee, White, Wright it would be a pretty simple decision.… some of Pelchens masterstroke are looking like flops.

[remboy]

We have a lot of depth in players who are about at the same level but are not stars. Looking back, it seems the 2 for 1 trades were probably not the right way to go. We need more quality now.

Exactly, fierce competition between non-AFL standard players doesn't help us at all.

Easier in hindsight, but if you could take Lonergan & Grundy rather than Hickey, Lee, White, Wright it would be a pretty simple decision.… some of Pelchens masterstroke are looking like flops.

Keep in mind that that draft was weakened by GWS and Gold Coast having taken the best of the talent early. He was also trying to rebuild the list as quickly as possible and probably thought the 2 for 1 options increased our chances of finding some decent players. Still hope Hickey, Lee and Wright have got their best footy ahead of them.

[Myron Gaines]

We have a lot of depth in players who are about at the same level but are not stars. Looking back, it seems the 2 for 1 trades were probably not the right way to go. We need more quality now.

Exactly, fierce competition between non-AFL standard players doesn't help us at all.

Easier in hindsight, but if you could take Lonergan & Grundy rather than Hickey, Lee, White, Wright it would be a pretty simple decision.… some of Pelchens masterstroke are looking like flops.

Keep in mind that that draft was weakened by GWS and Gold Coast having taken the best of the talent early. He was also trying to rebuild the list as quickly as possible and probably thought the 2 for 1 options increased our chances of finding some decent players. Still hope Hickey, Lee and Wright have got their best footy ahead of them.

White is delisted, Wright & Lee will be in 1-2 years & Hickey is a depth ruckman for a bottom 5 team. That trade/draft was horrendous.

[BigMart]

Careful,

I wasn't allowed to criticise Pelchen at the time... And got howled down for doing so...

Hang on?

Is it like Lyons poor development program... Which is allowed now, but not back when... Or our drafting between 08-11 of which I was scathing ..... But was smashed on SS for... But it's the consensus now

[saint-stu]

Careful,

I wasn't allowed to criticise Pelchen at the time... And got howled down for doing so...

Hang on?

Is it like Lyons poor development program... Which is allowed now, but not back when... Or our drafting between 08-11 of which I was scathing ..... But was smashed on SS for... But it's the consensus now

As has been many times at the time and I would still say it now. We were so close to a premiership. If he managed to pull it off, no one would care.

[Freebird]

Lee and Hickey was always dumb move...You don't give up the chance to get elite players that you often get with earlier drafts for players that have previously been delisted or can't get a game with a week side.

Almost as dumb as drafting Howard at pick 26/27 in a strong draft when all other teams admitted they were not interested except maybe Footscray rookie..this was gob smackingly stupid

[saintsRrising]

Careful,

I wasn't allowed to criticise Pelchen at the time... And got howled down for doing so...

Hang on?

Is it like Lyons poor development program... Which is allowed now, but not back when... Or our drafting between 08-11 of which I was scathing ..... But was smashed on SS for... But it's the consensus now

As has been many times at the time and I would still say it now. We were so close to a premiership. If he managed to pull it off, no one would care.

Indeed.

IMO those unhappy with Lyon's performance in those years grossly over-rated our list. He took a list with no right to be in a GF to almost winning two flags.

As to the lack of kids's it was not poor player development but rather over half a decade of piss poor recruiting.

Yes in Lyon's years they went after players from other cclub's, but mainly with cheap picks. The part that really has hurt us is our picks of kids were crap. ie Howard etc.

If you were Lyon at the time and you knew the crpa that our drafting team would dish up, what would you do?

[saintsRrising]

Lee and Hickey was always dumb move...You don't give up the chance to get elite players that you often get with earlier drafts for players that have previously been delisted or can't get a game with a week side.

While the trades do not look like a win let's not re-write history by claiming that the club gave up the chance for elite picks/players. The picks were in the teens in weak draft years. Not early draft picks.

[bigred]

Gresham must be a doozie.

Has not played a game, yet can instigate a thread of this quality.

[skeptic]

Lee and Hickey was always dumb move...You don't give up the chance to get elite players that you often get with earlier drafts for players that have previously been delisted or can't get a game with a week side.

While the trades do not look like a win let's not re-write history by claiming that the club gave up the chance for elite picks/players. The picks were in the teens in weak draft years. Not early draft picks.

I also think it's not entirely fair measuring a deal based on the outcome down the line.

You don't have the benefit of hindsight at the time.

For example, the pick we downgraded by 5 or so spots to net us Saad and Milera is ultimately a failure but I still think was a good deal at the time

[SaintPav]

Careful,

I wasn't allowed to criticise Pelchen at the time... And got howled down for doing so...

Hang on?

Is it like Lyons poor development program... Which is allowed now, but not back when... Or our drafting between 08-11 of which I was scathing ..... But was smashed on SS for... But it's the consensus now

As has been many times at the time and I would still say it now. We were so close to a premiership. If he managed to pull it off, no one would care.

Indeed.

IMO those unhappy with Lyon's performance in those years grossly over-rated our list. He took a list with no right to be in a GF to almost winning two flags.

As to the lack of kids's it was not poor player development but rather over half a decade of piss poor recruiting.

Yes in Lyon's years they went after players from other cclub's, but mainly with cheap picks. The part that really has hurt us is our picks of kids were crap. ie Howard etc.

If you were Lyon at the time and you knew the crpa that our drafting team would dish up, what would you do?

5 prelims in seven years.

The list was good enough.

[SaintPav]

Careful,

I wasn't allowed to criticise Pelchen at the time... And got howled down for doing so...

Hang on?

Is it like Lyons poor development program... Which is allowed now, but not back when... Or our drafting between 08-11 of which I was scathing ..... But was smashed on SS for... But it's the consensus now

I think you got smashed for just being a d**khead.

Questioning decisions or strategic direction is different to a relentless vitriolic monologue about a football club that most people are here to celebrate... Post after post of how s*** we are just pisses people off.

He made some very unpopular decisions, but some of Pelchens work may still be an important element of our rebuild…

Lee/Hickey & McEvoy/Dal Santo > Savage/Dunstan/Acres/Longer/Bruce/Delaney may still prove to be important.

Well said

[Bunk_Moreland]

We have a lot of depth in players who are about at the same level but are not stars. Looking back, it seems the 2 for 1 trades were probably not the right way to go. We need more quality now.

Exactly, fierce competition between non-AFL standard players doesn't help us at all.

Easier in hindsight, but if you could take Lonergan & Grundy rather than Hickey, Lee, White, Wright it would be a pretty simple decision.… some of Pelchens masterstroke are looking like flops.

They are not non AFL standard, but they arent stars either. Hence the slow burn part.

We have an excellent base to work from. Now we need to start looing at A graders in FA.

[saynta]

We have a lot of depth in players who are about at the same level but are not stars. Looking back, it seems the 2 for 1 trades were probably not the right way to go. We need more quality now.

Exactly, fierce competition between non-AFL standard players doesn't help us at all.

Easier in hindsight, but if you could take Lonergan & Grundy rather than Hickey, Lee, White, Wright it would be a pretty simple decision.… some of Pelchens masterstroke are looking like flops.

Only some?

[Bluthy]

So are we expecting The Gresh to have as good a debut season as Dunstan did??

We will have a lot of competition for spots this year -if Gresham plays who misses - Ross, Dunston, Acres or Weller?

This is my point. I think Gresham has to earn his spot. First of all he has to show he can run out a full game against men which he hasn't done yet. Then he has to show some solid form to force someone out. I think he'll start in the VFL but will probably start putting pressure straight away on the likes of Acres, Weller, Ross, Sinclair.

And isn't that a good thing. We are starting to talk about competition gor spots. Slow burn rebuild but it is starting to bear fruit.

I agree. We also needed to fast track some of this young talent - Billing, Dunstan, Lonie etc as we had a real dearth of talented youngsters that we want to get up to that 50-75 game mark to support Armo and Steven at the top when we are playing finals. That's the balancing act of players needing to earn a spot versus getting games into the players that will be the future.

[degruch]

I hate the idea of Nick playing on the wing... Makes no sense

Still think they are playing mind games with other clubs and that he will play majority as a high half forward for transition plays from our backline. While resting he will play deep tall forward.

Absolutely agree. The only reason we'd play Roo out of position would be to assist with the development of our younger key forwards, but would also be robbing Peter to pay Paul...I think there's a level of success desired/required for the team to keep developing positively, not to mention off-field. Anyways, we'll see shortly.

[saintsRrising]

Yes, it was poor... I believe I am on record in 2008 as saying that... A view not accepted at the time

LOL I cannot imagine uninversal views either now or then saying we drafted well in 2008. I certainly remember a lot of surprise and posted discussion at taking Lynch with our first pick.

As to posts on drafting...for example legion have been the posts on this forum during the naughties about the number of players taken by StKilda who were poor kicks with a common yearning being on when are we going to draft players with good footskills.

[Con Gorozidis]

This is going to be a long season.
I have my concerns.

[skeptic]

IMO those unhappy with Lyon's performance in those years grossly over-rated our list. He took a list with no right to be in a GF to almost winning two flags.

RL started with Hayes, Harvey, Ball, Dal, Gehrig, Montagna, Milne, Hudghton, Fisher, Maguire, Clarke x 2, Gram, Goddard, Baker, Blake, Fiora, and Koschitzke...

That was in 2007. Now granted by 2009 Gehrig, and Harvey are gone... Fiora was cut whilst Maguire and the Clarke's aren't in the top 22... That's still 12 players of a starting 18 disregarding other players on the list that were further back.

Yep, he was a real miracle worker to be able to do anything with that pack of duds

[loris]

IMO those unhappy with Lyon's performance in those years grossly over-rated our list. He took a list with no right to be in a GF to almost winning two flags.

RL started with Hayes, Harvey, Ball, Dal, Gehrig, Montagna, Milne, Hudghton, Fisher, Maguire, Clarke x 2, Gram, Goddard, Baker, Blake, Fiora, and Koschitzke...

That was in 2007. Now granted by 2009 Gehrig, and Harvey are gone... Fiora was cut whilst Maguire and the Clarke's aren't in the top 22... That's still 12 players of a starting 18 disregarding other players on the list that were further back.

Yep, he was a real miracle worker to be able to do anything with that pack of duds

And he had that dud Reiwoldt!