People do realise we aren't meant to play finals this year?

[Bluthy]

When you trade out the likes of Goddard, Dal Santo and McEvoy it has a two pronged effect. One, you get picks back to invest in high drafted young players that will pay off further down the track. But two its designed to make it harder to win games and hence have lower finishes on the ladder and get access to the top 5 picks where the elite talent is. My guess its gone exactly to the clubs plan:

Pick 1 - Monster forward - McCartin
Pick 3 - X-factor mid/forward - Billings
Pick 5 - Athletic intercepting tall back - Carlisle
Probs around pick 5 this year - highly skilled midfielder

So basically you sacrifice your current success - where we could have kept going as a mid-table team that might play a bit of finals - for bigger future success. Its a different plan that say what Geelong has done but I think its working for us.

Chuck Goddard, Dal and McEvoy in our team yesterday and we push GWS right to the end and maybe win. But do we want that? What does that get us in the long run? Next year we will begin our genuine finals attempt with our talented kids in the team and having some decent amount of games under their belt but I wouldn't even think a finals finish is a lock at all. Another top 8 pick (another classy midfielder) could be icing on our young, freshly backed, delicious (thanks Bruce) cake.

We need to get these talented kids upto the 75 game mark before they can really be a force on the field. In the mean-time enjoy those moments when it does come together - Pies and Hawks game - because thats an indication that the game plan and Richo's coaching is working because we do not have the cattle on the field yet to be a true force.

[St Chris]

I think the attitude around supporters this year has been one of higher expectation than the last few. And that's a good thing. It seems to reflect the expectations in house too.

Nobody expects us to win every week, or win the flag, but we do expect more from our players than last year, and the year before that, etc. Accepting mediocrity is something that has dogged this club in it's history, but we're past that now. In my opinion, The Riewoldt Generation (the players, coaches and administration thru that time) will ultimately lead to our second flag eventually - there is an added level of professionalism at the club now that didn't exist 15 years ago.

The 75 game mark you mention is important, but they don't just tick over from being a kid who tries his best to a gun once they hit that mark. They need a steady progression to that point, and we expect the same from the team as a whole.

The weekend was OK. Take away the last quarter and a couple of cheap frees in front of goal and we're right in the thick of it with that team that is unbelievably chock full of raw talent.

But it's totally fine to have high expectations for your team.

[saintsRrising]

Well said St Chris

[saintspremiers]

I prefer the Geelong model of 3 flags in 5 years and then I couldn't give fig if we were mid table or bottom table for the next 20 years!

[BigMart]

We don't have to play finals

But we must show improvement in consistency (in and between games)
Have we?

I want to see competitive efforts where we push the opposition and make them play well to beat us .... Not last quarter efforts or Bulldogs efforts

[st.byron]

We don't have to play finals

But we must show improvement in consistency (in and between games)
Have we?

I want to see competitive efforts where we push the opposition and make them play well to beat us .... Not last quarter efforts or Bulldogs efforts

Yes I think we have shown improvement. The Filth and Hawks games were way better than anything we showed last year. Inconsistency and swings in performance are to be expected from a young group. We were very competitive in those two games and even in passages against GWS.

[BigMart]

Really

What about Essendon, GWS Bulldogs last year??

I thought that except the last 4 games we were very competitive last season generally

[saintspremiers]

Really

What about Essendon, GWS Bulldogs last year??

I thought that except the last 4 games we were very competitive last season generally

It's only round 5.

This year is meant to be a tread water year

[The Fireman]

hmmm..yes...people do realise.

[BigMart]

Why is it meant to be 'tread water'?

Who comes up with stuff??

I dont see why we wouldn't be on an upward trend???

[fugazi]

I prefer the Geelong model of 3 flags in 5 years and then I couldn't give fig if we were mid table or bottom table for the next 20 years!

Agree, I'd even be happy with 1 and then I could move on!

[Toy Saint]

I prefer the Geelong model of 3 flags in 5 years and then I couldn't give fig if we were mid table or bottom table for the next 20 years!

Agree, I'd even be happy with 1 and then I could move on!

Yep, I'll be happy to win just one in my lifetime. I was a 10 year old in 1966 and have waited 50 years for another, but to be honest I can't see a flag this side of 2020.

It breaks my heart really, when passionate loyal fans have supported VFL/AFL all of their lives in the hope of September glory, but then the AFL introduces a National competition and virtually 'gifts' flags to the newcomers, Adelaide, Port, Eagles, Swans, Lions and soon to be Giants & Suns. It sucks really.

[bigred]

I would definitely prefer the upward trend.

I cant get over the last qtr of the GWS game.

Does my head in. We are so much better than that.

[samuraisaint]

We have only won one game in the past 11 matches. That's okay - the last six games of last season were all hard and we did manage a draw against Geelong. And the first eight games of this year are tough. Most posters on here, including me thought that we may only win one (or two) in this block. But - we must win our share of the next eight from round 9 to round 17 or we haven't really improved. Lot's of winnable ones in that group of games.
I knew when Freeman hurt his hammy before Christmas and Carlisle got suspended for 2016 that this year would throw up a few bad losses. We need to stop these run ons sides have been getting against us since 2013 though.

[evo]

I prefer the Geelong model of 3 flags in 5 years and then I couldn't give fig if we were mid table or bottom table for the next 20 years!

So much this, personally I love the Geelong model, no waiting for years to see if a kid makes it or not. Pumping games into kids can just give you a heap of 50 game players, it does not mean they will be any good, just more experienced.

[spert]

Improvement for me is winning games, and although finals don't look likely for us, we at least need to do better than last year otherwise it's all hot air. The reality is that our midfield is ordinary, and we are getting a lot of goals kicked against us, not to mention skills which are so bad that we spend a lot of time sighing in disbelief. What the heck is the coach doing to address the issues- he seems to sighing as much as we supporters, and his pressers sound more like a record stuck in a groove for three years.."yeah no..the outside run killed us..blah blah. Our forwards weren't very good today.. We butchered the ball. Etc etc.

Pull your finger out Richo!

[freely]

Seems to me that this notion of ours - and other clubs - that 'we aren't meant to play finals' makes a pretty compelling case for a two tier competition.

What's the point of having a whole lot of clubs 'playing the kids' when we're all supposed to be competing for a flag? Better off having a second division if all we're doing is getting games into blokes, then we fight it out between us till we're good enough to be promoted into the first division - and that's when we really start contending.

[Griggsy]

Going to have to take a leave of absence from this place if we lose to the dees. Who are actually a pretty decent side this year.

[st.byron]

Seems to me that this notion of ours - and other clubs - that 'we aren't meant to play finals' makes a pretty compelling case for a two tier competition.

What's the point of having a whole lot of clubs 'playing the kids' when we're all supposed to be competing for a flag? Better off having a second division if all we're doing is getting games into blokes, then we fight it out between us till we're good enough to be promoted into the first division - and that's when we really start contending.

Can't see this ever happening even if it's not a bad idea. How would it hypothetically work. Two divisions, nine teams each? Ten and eight. Fixturing?

[Dr Spaceman]

Seems to me that this notion of ours - and other clubs - that 'we aren't meant to play finals' makes a pretty compelling case for a two tier competition.

What's the point of having a whole lot of clubs 'playing the kids' when we're all supposed to be competing for a flag? Better off having a second division if all we're doing is getting games into blokes, then we fight it out between us till we're good enough to be promoted into the first division - and that's when we really start contending.

Can't see this ever happening even if it's not a bad idea. How would it hypothetically work. Two divisions, nine teams each? Ten and eight. Fixturing?

Can see problems with sponsorship and membership for those in the second tier.

Me no likey.

[Bluthy]

Nobody expects us to win every week, or win the flag, but we do expect more from our players than last year, and the year before that, etc.

By that do you mean we should end up with more wins and/or higher up the ladder? I don't think it necessarily works in such a neat linear fashion. There are so many variable and permutations and unexpected things simmering away in a footy club its impossible to ensure such straight line progression. I thought we over achieved a little last year when we were under the radar with very low expectations from the footy community and players like Bruce and Billings getting off the hook and winning games off their own boot. I'm happy if we end up with similar wins/ladder position if we can push the reigning premiers right to the end at their Tassie fortress.

[samuraisaint]

Melbourne - 50/50
North - nup
Eagles in Perth - uh, uh
Essendon - yep 100 points
Freo here - yup.
Crows in Snowtown - zero chance
Carlton at Etihad - yes 60 points
Geelong in Melb - No
Suns on Gold Coast - Nah
Essendon return game - of course
Melbourne return game - 50/50
Bullies - nah.
North - nooo
Blues at the G - yes - 8 goals.
Swans here - no
Tigers at the G - don't think so.
Brissie here - yep - 75 points

Could win 5 more - as many as 7 more. If we won 8 games, which is unlikely but possible, we would be one year ahead of schedule.
So many players wuth question marks over them though - Templeton, Wright, Murdoch, Shenton, Curren, Pierce, Membery, Minchington, Holmes, Delaney.
Who retires at the end of the year? Fisher, Dempster, Gilbo...? I suppose we have just reached the fourth year of a complete rebuild and a year and a half away from the pointy end of it. Interesting times ahead.

[kosifantutti]

We'd be outside the 8 on percentage if we'd had more than a moral victory against the Hawks.