It's All About The Tractor

[saintsRrising]

The big recruiting issue for me is not the Bont v Billings, or Petracca v McCartib but the club has not drafted a kid who has become a gun since Steven who was Pick 42 way, way back in 2007. Indeed we have not since 2007 drafted anyone apart from Steven that has become very good except for perhaps Ross. There are a few that may become, but right here and now they are not.

While guns are more likely to come earlier in the draft, they can come anywhere in the draft. As it stands in a decade we have only been able to draft one player that has become a consistent gun. Yes Armo was a gun in one year, but has not been a consistent gun and he was also taken in 2006!

As a club you need to be generating a gun at least every several years if you want to be a Top 4 Team let alone Premiership Threat, let alone win the flag. And you probably need to be generating a very good player on average every year. To win a premiership, amongst other things, you need a number of players who could make an AA Team.

Yes the Dogs won the flag with the Bont in the team, but they won in large part as they drafted players that became guns, or at least very good players from positions throughout the draft order including rookies. Without that the Bont would not have been enough.

At present our recruiters are when you look at it often picking up useful and good players, but as a whole they are not generating enough very good to elite players. We have built good depth, but no real cream. Our club seems to have placed huge store in us landing some guns by FA or Trade, and if they don't we may well become the new "Old" Richmond with a mortgage on ninish.

I am hoping like hell that Gresh, Acres, Marshall, White etc can suddenly "arrive". But right here and now that looks more like hope than reality.

[ace]

The big recruiting issue for me is not the Bont v Billings, or Petracca v McCartib but the club has not drafted a kid who has become a gun since Steven who was Pick 42 way, way back in 2007. Indeed we have not since 2007 drafted anyone apart from Steven that has become very good except for perhaps Ross. There are a few that may become, but right here and now they are not.

While guns are more likely to come earlier in the draft, they can come anywhere in the draft. As it stands in a decade we have only been able to draft one player that has become a consistent gun. Yes Armo was a gun in one year, but has not been a consistent gun and he was also taken in 2006!

As a club you need to be generating a gun at least every several years if you want to be a Top 4 Team let alone Premiership Threat, let alone win the flag. And you probably need to be generating a very good player on average every year. To win a premiership, amongst other things, you need a number of players who could make an AA Team.

Yes the Dogs won the flag with the Bont in the team, but they won in large part as they drafted players that became guns, or at least very good players from positions throughout the draft order including rookies. Without that the Bont would not have been enough.

At present our recruiters are when you look at it often picking up useful and good players, but as a whole they are not generating enough very good to elite players. We have built good depth, but no real cream. Our club seems to have placed huge store in us landing some guns by FA or Trade, and if they don't we may well become the new "Old" Richmond with a mortgage on ninish.

I am hoping like hell that Gresh, Acres, Marshall, White etc can suddenly "arrive". But right here and now that looks more like hope than reality.

[ace]

We haven't drafted a gun since lowly ladder positions delivered us 2000 Riewoldt and 2002 Goddard.
Even in 2001 with our better draft positions we have to admit Geelong did better.
Gold Coast had similar concessions to GWS but one year earlier.
Compare the pair.
The difference between playing finals and winning premierships is not doing good in the draft.
It is outperforming all the other clubs in the draft consistently.
When you have prime positions in the draft, there should be no debating two or three years later as to who we should have taken.
It should be obvious our guy was the best.

[MC Gusto]

i wouldn't be calling petracca a gun at this stage. sure he has had a solid start but i do wonder what his upside is...may well turn out to be elite but i think we need more time to judge. the pick melbourne really smashed was clayton oliver. now he is gun! much better pick that petracca imo

[saintsRrising]

The difference between playing finals and winning premierships is not doing good in the draft.
It is outperforming all the other clubs in the draft consistently.

Yes. But as a whole

When you have prime positions in the draft, there should be no debating two or three years later as to who we should have taken.
It should be obvious our guy was the best.

Not guy, but guys on average. No one is going to nail every pick. The reason why Saints fans are so obsessed with Billings and Paddy is that we have had so little joy in drafting kids that become guns is that they believe that an early pick is their only chance for getting a gun in the draft. Unfortunately the Paddy year was a year where the draft actually lacked the true top end talent that it has in some years. Petracca may well turn out better, but he is no Judd or Dangerfield.


Even GWS with all their low picks have not nailed all their early picks. The real genius of their strategy is that by continually trading for more and more early picks that effectively they could not miss as they have had so many early picks that some had to work, and those that did not have not mattered. ie Tom Boyd. Taken as No 1 but is a bust in terms of being an elite talent. A GOP at best. Billings IMO is actually better. But has it mattered that GWS flopped in getting him? No. They could still trade him off and also glow in that Kelly was their second pick.

That they were also granted the Academy Rort only increased their already huge drafting advantage. Their Academy is also a richer vein that the Suns.

[longtimesaint]

The drafting is a lottery as players who look like being guns end up as good players.
There is a lot of luck as when Hawthorn got Franklin and Roughead as well as Hodge in the draft.
It improved your chance of landing a champion if you have very early picks.
That is why if Hawthorn does finish bottom 5 I think we should use it in the draft.
GWS have had an incredible advantage as the way than can stockpile very early picks, and trade them for more early picks means the need only keep the very cream.

[Johnny Member]

The drafting is a lottery as players who look like being guns end up as good players.
There is a lot of luck as when Hawthorn got Franklin and Roughead as well as Hodge in the draft.
It improved your chance of landing a champion if you have very early picks.
That is why if Hawthorn does finish bottom 5 I think we should use it in the draft.
GWS have had an incredible advantage as the way than can stockpile very early picks, and trade them for more early picks means the need only keep the very cream.

I heard an interview with Buckenara the other day and he was talking about that draft.

They already had Hodge and Mitchell and a couple of other good young players from previous drafts, and had 3 top 10 picks in that draft.

Clarkson said to Buckenara "get me two KPPs and a midfielder".

They went Roughead at 2, then went Franklin at 4 - then got Lewis at 7.

[Johnny Member]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/05/04/ ... -and-gray/

[magnifisaint]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/05/04/ ... -and-gray/

Wow. Big sample of his games to sample on. All 23 of them.

[saintsRrising]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/05/04/ ... -and-gray/

Wow. Big sample of his games to sample on. All 23 of them.

Hence why they compared ALL players after 23 games.

[magnifisaint]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/05/04/ ... -and-gray/

Wow. Big sample of his games to sample on. All 23 of them.

Hence why they compared ALL players after 23 games.

If you know anything about stats you'll know that the sample size is too small. Maybe they should retry after 100 games

[satchmo]

Why would you care? Why is self flagellation so popular?

No matter how good he is, he might not make it to 50 games.

Who is the best player that never made it to fifty games?

How many players have we had that looked a million bucks, only to disappear the following year?

And even if he becomes the goat, so what? Will you bleed to death?
We make a decision and we live with it.

[magnifisaint]

Why would you care? Why is self flagellation so popular?

No matter how good he is, he might not make it to 50 games.

Who is the best player that never made it to fifty games?

How many players have we had that looked a million bucks, only to disappear the following year?

And even if he becomes the goat, so what? Will you bleed to death?
We make a decision and we live with it.

I don't give a s***. Maybe you should direct that to Johnnybegood

[BigMart]

He's streets ahead, likely to stay there... Lucky he had a reco, or this would have been last year!!!

I'm more worried about Paddy than CP though?

I hope he can get the mobility required to be an AFL key forward... If he does, he'll be worth the pick

You see, it's not about how good CP is now, it's about how good our blocked is... Atm he is still developing... Hard to tell?

[MC Gusto]

Gray, Ablett and danger all late bloomers. Their stats at 23 games would be shyte / irrelevant.

[MC Gusto]

Compare paddy to brown or Hawkins at 21 games his stats prob look fine...it's meaningless

[satchmo]

Why would you care? Why is self flagellation so popular?

No matter how good he is, he might not make it to 50 games.

Who is the best player that never made it to fifty games?

How many players have we had that looked a million bucks, only to disappear the following year?

And even if he becomes the goat, so what? Will you bleed to death?
We make a decision and we live with it.

I don't give a s***. Maybe you should direct that to Johnnybegood

I did. But I'm glad you don't give a s***.

[Johnny Member]

Why would you care? Why is self flagellation so popular?

No matter how good he is, he might not make it to 50 games.

Who is the best player that never made it to fifty games?

How many players have we had that looked a million bucks, only to disappear the following year?

And even if he becomes the goat, so what? Will you bleed to death?
We make a decision and we live with it.

Dude, I dont think you understand....


I LOVE TRACTOR!!


Love man. Love. Don't hate.

[satchmo]

Why would you care? Why is self flagellation so popular?

No matter how good he is, he might not make it to 50 games.

Who is the best player that never made it to fifty games?

How many players have we had that looked a million bucks, only to disappear the following year?

And even if he becomes the goat, so what? Will you bleed to death?
We make a decision and we live with it.

Dude, I dont think you understand....


I LOVE TRACTOR!!


Love man. Love. Don't hate.

No, I understand the love... I don't understand the hate.
Apparently you can't have one without the other. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. dude.

[saintsRrising]

Paddy will still come good for us. I am not sure how good that will be. But I am confident that he will become a regular firsts player.

He is a footy smart player. That is something that players either have or not, and he has it in spades.

He is a very good mark.

Of late at Sandy we are also seeing a man streak coming out.

We know he needs to improve his fitness. He is not alone, or even unusual, for someone of his size and build.

We know that he has to improve his set shot accuracy. So he will need to work on that.

He, and we, still have the time for him to coincide that improvement with the years that we will need it most.

[magnifisaint]

He more than anybody knows what he has to work on. He has the ability which is the most important thing.

[bigcarl]

How about we compare Paddy to other 21-year-old key forwards? That is a fairer comparison as midfielders and key forwards are different beasts.

[dragit]

How about we compare Paddy to other 21-year-old key forwards? That is a fairer comparison as midfielders and key forwards are different beasts.

How about Hipwood?

He's only 19, kicked 11 goals this year.

[bigcarl]

How about we compare Paddy to other 21-year-old key forwards? That is a fairer comparison as midfielders and key forwards are different beasts.

How about Hipwood?

He's only 19, kicked 11 goals this year.

Less than two goals a game. Wow. Hardly a superstar yet.

Jonathan Patton is 23 and has 83 goals from 53 games. He's only just beginning to hit his straps.

The point being that bigger blokes, ruckmen and key forwards, take longer to come on. As a rule. There are exceptions of course.

[asiu]

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl= ... mrc&uact=8

of course , it's ALL about the tractor