JUST DECLARE THE 2020 SEASON CANCELLED!!

[Secret Kiel]

Not that I'm aware of, nor do I believe has the AFL drawn down on the line of credit at this time, perhaps BackFromUSA can give some clarification.

In any case, as I mentioned earlier, if the competition does in fact play 2/3rds of the games this year, plus finals, then that should ease some of the financial pressures on the AFL and the clubs.

I would also expect that the "line of credit" will in reality be in the form of an overdraft on the aggregate of the AFL bank accounts, with interest only paid on daily balances.

I'm assuming all 18 clubs are still contributing millions of dollars per week cashflow from automatic monthly membership payments. So they still have some incomings. The outgoings have been slashed dramatically with the players wages bill still being the largest outgoing, and that will be slashed by another 25% in 5 weeks time.

So why the need for such an outrageously large loan if you believe the competition will be completed this year?

If you believe they haven't drawn down on it yet and the operational cashflow will return due to the comp being completed this year, why the need to borrow $600 million? Why the need to place clubs into a receivership style managment?

Is it possible the AFL have been caught with their pants down and have been mismanaging funds?

[Sanctorum]

Not that I'm aware of, nor do I believe has the AFL drawn down on the line of credit at this time, perhaps BackFromUSA can give some clarification.

In any case, as I mentioned earlier, if the competition does in fact play 2/3rds of the games this year, plus finals, then that should ease some of the financial pressures on the AFL and the clubs.

I would also expect that the "line of credit" will in reality be in the form of an overdraft on the aggregate of the AFL bank accounts, with interest only paid on daily balances.

I'm assuming all 18 clubs are still contributing millions of dollars per week cashflow from automatic monthly membership payments. So they still have some incomings. The outgoings have been slashed dramatically with the players wages bill still being the largest outgoing, and that will be slashed by another 25% in 5 weeks time.

So why the need for such an outrageously large loan if you believe the competition will be completed this year?

If you believe they haven't drawn down on it yet and the operational cashflow will return due to the comp being completed this year, why the need to borrow $600 million? Why the need to place clubs into a receivership style managment?

Is it possible the AFL have been caught with their pants down and have been mismanaging funds?

You keep referring to the $600 million line of credit from NAB and ANZ as a loan SK, when in reality it is only likely to be a facility in place in the event that the AFL runs short of cash.

Even then as I mentioned earlier, this should be in some form of overdraft, much like most businesses large and small operate their borrowings on the most advantageous terms. At least that's what I personally negotiated with the banks whenever the small businesses I had needed to borrow for expansion - cash flow is a wonderful thing and the AFL when operating normally has lots of cash flow, and the banks know it!

If you really suspect that the AFL have mismanaged funds then you need to validate this, or are you relying on the stuff that Jeff Kennett has spouted forth.

On that point it is interesting to note that the other AFL clubs have declined to support his demand that henceforth the AFL open their books to the clubs, in the same way that the AFL is imposing on the clubs (Caroline Wilson The Age 11 April). Surely if there is even a whiff of financial mismanagement or impropriety by the AFL, Kennett would have been backed by his fellow presidents, but obviously he was all thunder and bluff, which is not unusual for the former Victorian premier.

[Secret Kiel]

Not that I'm aware of, nor do I believe has the AFL drawn down on the line of credit at this time, perhaps BackFromUSA can give some clarification.

In any case, as I mentioned earlier, if the competition does in fact play 2/3rds of the games this year, plus finals, then that should ease some of the financial pressures on the AFL and the clubs.

I would also expect that the "line of credit" will in reality be in the form of an overdraft on the aggregate of the AFL bank accounts, with interest only paid on daily balances.

I'm assuming all 18 clubs are still contributing millions of dollars per week cashflow from automatic monthly membership payments. So they still have some incomings. The outgoings have been slashed dramatically with the players wages bill still being the largest outgoing, and that will be slashed by another 25% in 5 weeks time.

So why the need for such an outrageously large loan if you believe the competition will be completed this year?

If you believe they haven't drawn down on it yet and the operational cashflow will return due to the comp being completed this year, why the need to borrow $600 million? Why the need to place clubs into a receivership style managment?

Is it possible the AFL have been caught with their pants down and have been mismanaging funds?

You keep referring to the $600 million line of credit from NAB and ANZ as a loan SK, when in reality it is only likely to be a facility in place in the event that the AFL runs short of cash.

Even then as I mentioned earlier, this should be in some form of overdraft, much like most businesses large and small operate their borrowings on the most advantageous terms. At least that's what I personally negotiated with the banks whenever the small businesses I had needed to borrow for expansion - cash flow is a wonderful thing and the AFL when operating normally has lots of cash flow, and the banks know it!

If you really suspect that the AFL have mismanaged funds then you need to validate this, or are you relying on the stuff that Jeff Kennett has spouted forth.

On that point it is interesting to note that the other AFL clubs have declined to support his demand that henceforth the AFL open their books to the clubs, in the same way that the AFL is imposing on the clubs (Caroline Wilson The Age 11 April). Surely if there is even a whiff of financial mismanagement or impropriety by the AFL, Kennett would have been backed by his fellow presidents, but obviously he was all thunder and bluff, which is not unusual for the former Victorian premier.

You are making it sound like banks give out $600 million willy nillly to businesses just in case they need it for a rainy day. You're also making it sound like the AFL doesn't need much cash but was asked by the bank how much they needed and just threw out the figure of $600.

It doesn't work like that or anything like how an overdraft works for SMEs. The competition is now being controlled by insolvency practitioners, that's no ordinary business situation. In fact it is generally only needed when a business is near death or being killed off. It means a business is on life support and the owner doesn't get to decide if the life support stays on.

So you still haven't explained two things, why is so much cash needed if you believe the competition is going to be completed this season, and why the requirement for insolvency management if the bank has generously gifted us the money for a rainy day that may not be needed at all, and if it is it will only be a very small amount, much much smaller than $600 million.

[Shaggy]

I'm assuming all 18 clubs are still contributing millions of dollars per week cashflow from automatic monthly membership payments. So they still have some incomings. The outgoings have been slashed dramatically with the players wages bill still being the largest outgoing, and that will be slashed by another 25% in 5 weeks time.

So why the need for such an outrageously large loan if you believe the competition will be completed this year?

If you believe they haven't drawn down on it yet and the operational cashflow will return due to the comp being completed this year, why the need to borrow $600 million? Why the need to place clubs into a receivership style managment?

Is it possible the AFL have been caught with their pants down and have been mismanaging funds?

You keep referring to the $600 million line of credit from NAB and ANZ as a loan SK, when in reality it is only likely to be a facility in place in the event that the AFL runs short of cash.

Even then as I mentioned earlier, this should be in some form of overdraft, much like most businesses large and small operate their borrowings on the most advantageous terms. At least that's what I personally negotiated with the banks whenever the small businesses I had needed to borrow for expansion - cash flow is a wonderful thing and the AFL when operating normally has lots of cash flow, and the banks know it!

If you really suspect that the AFL have mismanaged funds then you need to validate this, or are you relying on the stuff that Jeff Kennett has spouted forth.

On that point it is interesting to note that the other AFL clubs have declined to support his demand that henceforth the AFL open their books to the clubs, in the same way that the AFL is imposing on the clubs (Caroline Wilson The Age 11 April). Surely if there is even a whiff of financial mismanagement or impropriety by the AFL, Kennett would have been backed by his fellow presidents, but obviously he was all thunder and bluff, which is not unusual for the former Victorian premier.

You are making it sound like banks give out $600 million willy nillly to businesses just in case they need it for a rainy day. You're also making it sound like the AFL doesn't need much cash but was asked by the bank how much they needed and just threw out the figure of $600.

It doesn't work like that or anything like how an overdraft works for SMEs. The competition is now being controlled by insolvency practitioners, that's no ordinary business situation. In fact it is generally only needed when a business is near death or being killed off. It means a business is on life support and the owner doesn't get to decide if the life support stays on.

So you still haven't explained two things, why is so much cash needed if you believe the competition is going to be completed this season, and why the requirement for insolvency management if the bank has generously gifted us the money for a rainy day that may not be needed at all, and if it is it will only be a very small amount, much much smaller than $600 million.

You are describing a receivership which is not the current situation.

The banks are working collaboratively with the AFL and its management.

The AFL is not on the brink of collapse because the credit facility can be drawn upon when needed.

If insolvency practitioners are involved it is merely to advise on matters such as loan structuring and reporting for risk management purposes. They have no control.

Gill and his team are in charge.

Monthly membership only accounts for roughly 10% of Saints revenue. No-one can reduce costs by 90% without creating great damage so it is not the solution you keep purporting.

How much money is needed depends upon how quickly the world becomes normal again and any permanent revenue diminution caused which no-one knows. The credit facility gives the AFL and clubs the flexibility to deal with it.

[Secret Kiel]

How much money is needed depends upon how quickly the world becomes normal again and any permanent revenue diminution caused which no-one knows.

Thank you, now you are teasing the conversation out in a meaningful way.

So when does the world become normal again in the context of determining if $600 million should close the gap, or an amount in betweeen?, and against the backdrop of one of the most unprecedented economic events in the history of mankind?

Is $600 million enough? and if it isn't, how much does the bank keep risking before they call it in?

[Sanctorum]

How much money is needed depends upon how quickly the world becomes normal again and any permanent revenue diminution caused which no-one knows.

Thank you, now you are teasing the conversation out in a meaningful way.

So when does the world become normal again in the context of determining if $600 million should close the gap, or an amount in betweeen?, and against the backdrop of one of the most unprecedented economic events in the history of mankind?

Is $600 million enough? and if it isn't, how much does the bank keep risking before they call it in?

I am quite mystified SK why you keep hammering away with the following assertion:

"The competition is now being controlled by insolvency practitioners"

Where did you hear/read this, what is the basis of this claim??

I'd be grateful if you could clarify this for me because I have not heard anyone put the $600 million line of credit into that context.

Furthermore, prior to the pandemic and the suspension of the 2020 season it is generally considered that the AFL has been managed exceptionally well, many successive years of substantial profits and a reserve fund far greater than any other sporting code in the land.

Hardly an organisation on the brink of financial collapse, and certainly not a candidate for calling in "insolvency practitioners" to pick over the carcass!

And I don't resile from my belief that this line of credit is there predominantly as a backstop for the AFL.

As for your question: "when does the world become normal again?" That's the $640 million question, God knows....but for us footy followers it can't come quick enough - July at the latest it seems from media reports but if NRL manage to kick off at the end of May (ambitious but doubtful) then the AFL will follow soon thereafter.

[magnifisaint]

Cancelled!

[Secret Kiel]

I am quite mystified SK why you keep hammering away with the following assertion:

"The competition is now being controlled by insolvency practitioners"

Where did you hear/read this, what is the basis of this claim??

I'd be grateful if you could clarify this for me because I have not heard anyone put the $600 million line of credit into that context.

Furthermore, prior to the pandemic and the suspension of the 2020 season it is generally considered that the AFL has been managed exceptionally well, many successive years of substantial profits and a reserve fund far greater than any other sporting code in the land.

Hardly an organisation on the brink of financial collapse, and certainly not a candidate for calling in "insolvency practitioners" to pick over the carcass!

And I don't resile from my belief that this line of credit is there predominantly as a backstop for the AFL.

As for your question: "when does the world become normal again?" That's the $640 million question, God knows....but for us footy followers it can't come quick enough - July at the latest it seems from media reports but if NRL manage to kick off at the end of May (ambitious but doubtful) then the AFL will follow soon thereafter.

So you've missed the information about the strict controls being put in place being similar to going into administration, that doesn't mean it's not the facts of the matter.

You still havent answered how the AFL come up with a figure of $600? Is that to get them to July or New Years Eve?

How much of that $600 is planned to be used?
Are you suggesting the most successful businesses in the country just plucked the figure from thin air?

[saintspremiers]

Lots of guesswork because we can’t see the AFL balance sheet.

Also who knows once footy restarts in June or July (let’s assume it’s a when not if now that new cases are very small and testing is still high) whether or not Foxtel/channel 7 will still pay their normal rights money given the altered state of the competition.

One thing that stands out re rights money is that the games are 16 minutes plus time on shorter now - that’s to me an automatic 20% reduction in money paid out!

Then factor in no crowds - it’s not unreasonable to expect the TV rights money is MINIMUM 30% less than normal.

Also, there are 45 LESS games this season due to the 17 round season!

[Sanctorum]

I am quite mystified SK why you keep hammering away with the following assertion:

"The competition is now being controlled by insolvency practitioners"

Where did you hear/read this, what is the basis of this claim??

I'd be grateful if you could clarify this for me because I have not heard anyone put the $600 million line of credit into that context.

Furthermore, prior to the pandemic and the suspension of the 2020 season it is generally considered that the AFL has been managed exceptionally well, many successive years of substantial profits and a reserve fund far greater than any other sporting code in the land.

Hardly an organisation on the brink of financial collapse, and certainly not a candidate for calling in "insolvency practitioners" to pick over the carcass!

And I don't resile from my belief that this line of credit is there predominantly as a backstop for the AFL.

As for your question: "when does the world become normal again?" That's the $640 million question, God knows....but for us footy followers it can't come quick enough - July at the latest it seems from media reports but if NRL manage to kick off at the end of May (ambitious but doubtful) then the AFL will follow soon thereafter.

So you've missed the information about the strict controls being put in place being similar to going into administration, that doesn't mean it's not the facts of the matter.

You still havent answered how the AFL come up with a figure of $600? Is that to get them to July or New Years Eve?

How much of that $600 is planned to be used?
Are you suggesting the most successful businesses in the country just plucked the figure from thin air?

I don't particularly want to drag this discussion on but your assessment that "the strict controls.... (are) similar to going into administration" is an exaggeration of the real situation, nor does it indicate in any shape or form that this involves bringing in insolvency practitioners that you have banged on about, again a total overstatement of the true position. Don't you think it is better to wait and see what eventuates when life gets back to normal, and then draw your conclusions?

I have never claimed to know "how the AFL (came) up with a figure of $600 million" nor do I consider that the AFL is under any obligation to reveal this information publicly - my guess is the AFL is looking at a worst case scenario where the entire 2020 season is cancelled which as others have pointed out is now most unlikely.

[samuraisaint]

I am quite mystified SK why you keep hammering away with the following assertion:

"The competition is now being controlled by insolvency practitioners"

Where did you hear/read this, what is the basis of this claim??

I'd be grateful if you could clarify this for me because I have not heard anyone put the $600 million line of credit into that context.

Furthermore, prior to the pandemic and the suspension of the 2020 season it is generally considered that the AFL has been managed exceptionally well, many successive years of substantial profits and a reserve fund far greater than any other sporting code in the land.

Hardly an organisation on the brink of financial collapse, and certainly not a candidate for calling in "insolvency practitioners" to pick over the carcass!

And I don't resile from my belief that this line of credit is there predominantly as a backstop for the AFL.

As for your question: "when does the world become normal again?" That's the $640 million question, God knows....but for us footy followers it can't come quick enough - July at the latest it seems from media reports but if NRL manage to kick off at the end of May (ambitious but doubtful) then the AFL will follow soon thereafter.

So you've missed the information about the strict controls being put in place being similar to going into administration, that doesn't mean it's not the facts of the matter.

You still havent answered how the AFL come up with a figure of $600? Is that to get them to July or New Years Eve?

How much of that $600 is planned to be used?
Are you suggesting the most successful businesses in the country just plucked the figure from thin air?

I don't particularly want to drag this discussion on but your assessment that "the strict controls.... (are) similar to going into administration" is an exaggeration of the real situation, nor does it indicate in any shape or form that this involves bringing in insolvency practitioners that you have banged on about, again a total overstatement of the true position. Don't you think it is better to wait and see what eventuates when life gets back to normal, and then draw your conclusions?

I have never claimed to know "how the AFL (came) up with a figure of $600 million" nor do I consider that the AFL is under any obligation to reveal this information publicly - my guess is the AFL is looking at a worst case scenario where the entire 2020 season is cancelled which as others have pointed out is now most unlikely.

Sorry, have to agree to disagree with you there - I think it is highly likely that the 2020 Season will be cancelled due to the increasing likelihood of travel bans staying in place until the end of the year.

And these traval bans are even potentially extending into January according to the sources on ABC news, putting the cricket season and Tennis in jeopardy.

You cannot even enter Qld without a permit these days, and our state border in closed at the NSW, SA and Tas borders, not to mention the S.A/NT and Western Australia state lines sealed as tight as a drum.

There may be some modified "VFL" season but as for a national competition in 2020/early 2021 fuggedaboudit. The baseball season in the US isn't going ahead atm so I think any hope we have of running our competition is pure sophistry.

It wasn't so long ago on here that some were posting that this corona virus would be wrapped up in May and we'd still play Port in China on May 31st. This virus is an absolute killer and we have been lucky so far - but winter is still six weeks away. We have to wait and see what winter holds in store for us first.

[bobmurray]

The AFL should just declare 2020 is Farked and work on what 2021 might look like.

I wont be paying much attention to whatever pile of crap, no at ground supporters, type competition the desperate AFL conjures up for the year of the Covid.

I'm not keen on paying for the 2021 season in 2020 either, i might even tel the club to hold out on taking my coin until we have some clarity on 2021.

They already have my 2020 money, for nothing in return, which i understand, i just dont want to be an ongoing charity for a competition loaded with morons.

[Ghost Like]

The year of the rat has certainly lived up to its place in history.

Another plague, a lot of guessing, a lot of uncertainty..."She'll be right mate."

Let's wait until the Emperor turns his thumb skyward.

[Secret Kiel]

I don't particularly want to drag this discussion on but your assessment that "the strict controls.... (are) similar to going into administration" is an exaggeration of the real situation, nor does it indicate in any shape or form that this involves bringing in insolvency practitioners that you have banged on about, again a total overstatement of the true position. Don't you think it is better to wait and see what eventuates when life gets back to normal, and then draw your conclusions?

I have never claimed to know "how the AFL (came) up with a figure of $600 million" nor do I consider that the AFL is under any obligation to reveal this information publicly - my guess is the AFL is looking at a worst case scenario where the entire 2020 season is cancelled which as others have pointed out is now most unlikely.

The discussion would have ended sooner had you just accepted the fact that the strict controls have been likened in various media reports to "administration" type controls.

[Secret Kiel]

Gotta agree with posters in this thread, the 2020 season should be officially canned. It will spare us manufactured debates about how the season will/can be completed. The hub idea is the most batsh1t crazy so far.

[asiu]

it’s the Year of the Golden Rat ,
to be accurate.

big picture : Power

smaller picture : bounty + surplus
...reward for those who’ve been working the preceding catalyst well







note :

2 types of Power
one : ultimately , illusional
... ‘n that has it’s own rewards

[Sanctorum]

I don't particularly want to drag this discussion on but your assessment that "the strict controls.... (are) similar to going into administration" is an exaggeration of the real situation, nor does it indicate in any shape or form that this involves bringing in insolvency practitioners that you have banged on about, again a total overstatement of the true position. Don't you think it is better to wait and see what eventuates when life gets back to normal, and then draw your conclusions?

I have never claimed to know "how the AFL (came) up with a figure of $600 million" nor do I consider that the AFL is under any obligation to reveal this information publicly - my guess is the AFL is looking at a worst case scenario where the entire 2020 season is cancelled which as others have pointed out is now most unlikely.

The discussion would have ended sooner had you just accepted the fact that the strict controls have been likened in various media reports to "administration" type controls.

Media hysteria that you have blindly accepted mate, (and on which you piled on further exaggeration with talk of insolvency practitioners) as is so much of the exaggerations and sensationalism that media like to ascribe to local and world affairs.

If you really want to continue in this vein maybe you should turn your attention to the disaster at Cricket Australia:

Reported in The Australian; "Cricket Australia was exposed to market fluctuations through its investment strategy, it’s 2019 annual report revealing $90.2m in local and overseas shares. The financial report claimed just $26.6m in cash reserves, down from $83.8m the previous financial year and almost $200m in 2016.

The dwindling reserves reflect the cyclical nature of cricket’s revenue cycles — the game works on a four-year economic cycle.

The AFL has $184m in cash reserves and declared no stock market exposure.

Full article:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/ ... 3d4d2d09b6

The last line confirms my belief that the AFL has been managed extremely well, something that so far you have failed to acknowledge my friend!

[Secret Kiel]

I don't particularly want to drag this discussion on but your assessment that "the strict controls.... (are) similar to going into administration" is an exaggeration of the real situation, nor does it indicate in any shape or form that this involves bringing in insolvency practitioners that you have banged on about, again a total overstatement of the true position. Don't you think it is better to wait and see what eventuates when life gets back to normal, and then draw your conclusions?

I have never claimed to know "how the AFL (came) up with a figure of $600 million" nor do I consider that the AFL is under any obligation to reveal this information publicly - my guess is the AFL is looking at a worst case scenario where the entire 2020 season is cancelled which as others have pointed out is now most unlikely.

The discussion would have ended sooner had you just accepted the fact that the strict controls have been likened in various media reports to "administration" type controls.

Media hysteria that you have blindly accepted mate, (and on which you piled on further exaggeration with talk of insolvency practitioners) as is so much of the exaggerations and sensationalism that media like to ascribe to local and world affairs.

If you really want to continue in this vein maybe you should turn your attention to the disaster at Cricket Australia:

Reported in The Australian; "Cricket Australia was exposed to market fluctuations through its investment strategy, it’s 2019 annual report revealing $90.2m in local and overseas shares. The financial report claimed just $26.6m in cash reserves, down from $83.8m the previous financial year and almost $200m in 2016.

The dwindling reserves reflect the cyclical nature of cricket’s revenue cycles — the game works on a four-year economic cycle.

The AFL has $184m in cash reserves and declared no stock market exposure.

Full article:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/ ... 3d4d2d09b6

The last line confirms my belief that the AFL has been managed extremely well, something that so far you have failed to acknowledge my friend!

I acknowledge it, I've even stated it several times.
You are off tangent a bit.

[Secret Kiel]

Had a discussion with someone loosly connected with City Hall. Apparently May 31 is the invoice date for 50% progress claim on the 2020 media rights money which is apparently about $413 million.

Apparently if the game isn't guaranteed to be back up by May 31 then the decision will be out of the hands of the AFL as the media companies will use the money to mitigate thier own losses such as paying back sponsorship dollars, operation costs etc.


Has this been reported or has anyone else heard this yarn?

[Sanctorum]

All will be revealed next Monday when Gil McLachlan is expected to outline a timetable for resumption of the 2020 season, widely expected to be July at the latest.

Stadiums are likely to remain empty until such time as a vaccine for Covid-19 is available, unlikely before early 2021. This will hurt St Kilda far less than the big clubs that draw large crowds.

[samuraisaint]

All will be revealed next Monday when Gil McLachlan is expected to outline a timetable for resumption of the 2020 season, widely expected to be July at the latest.

Stadiums are likely to remain empty until such time as a vaccine for Covid-19 is available, unlikely before early 2021. This will hurt St Kilda far less than the big clubs that draw large crowds.

Gonna be hard for him to do that when he, like the rest of us, has absolutely no timeline for when the state border closures are lifted. I heard that they are likely to stay in place until the end of the year potentially, so the national competition looks doomed for this year (not season) at least.

[Secret Kiel]

All will be revealed next Monday when Gil McLachlan is expected to outline a timetable for resumption of the 2020 season, widely expected to be July at the latest.

Stadiums are likely to remain empty until such time as a vaccine for Covid-19 is available, unlikely before early 2021. This will hurt St Kilda far less than the big clubs that draw large crowds.

Gil needs to wait until the government make it legal to play sport again. Hopefully he doesn't embarrass himself like V'landys and makes decisions or statements that government havent approved.

The big clubs will still be advantaged as per normal, possibly more, why would no crowds disadvantage revenue sources that will almost exclusively be derived from media rights and sponsorship that needs media/TV as the vehicle.

[asiu]

we really need to push on
and hustle our goal of 50 thousand members

[asiu]

we really need to push on
and hustle our goal of 50 thousand members

whats the cheapest one that counts ?

[The Fireman]

so is that 100 thousand members ?