The Caldwell conundrum

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Post Reply
cwrcyn
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4321
Joined: Fri 15 Sep 2006 10:35am
Location: earth
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1442 times

The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878134Post cwrcyn »

It's been three weeks since GWS ended their season. It's been one week since we finished ours. I've no doubt that St Kilda has had Caldwell's manager well informed of our interest, most likely since mid season. The fact that Caldwell has yet to declare his intentions suggests to me that our chances of snaring him are diminishing as each day passes. Here he is, out of contract, and with the lure of coming back to Victoria and playing for the team he grew up rabidly supporting, and yet no declaration from he or his manager.

The two most logical scenarios are

1. GWS is working overtime to keep him and he feels the pressure to re-sign.

2. His manager is playing us off against GWS to maximise the $$$$

Then there's the more fanciful scenario


3. After the Ben King situation of last year, where it was obvious that AFL intervention came into play, could it be
that the same kind of AFL pressure is being put on Caldwell in order to protect an expansion team at risk of going into decline?


User avatar
ace
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10781
Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 828 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878136Post ace »

I don't know that an AFL plan to directly pay players over and outside the salary cap could be justified as GWS has usually played finals whereas Gold Coast were perennial cellar dwellers.
Caldwell's manager would be working on both GWS, St Kilda and other clubs as well, to put offers in front of his client.
Until GWS have put their final offer on the table Caldwell won't go public.
That final offer will be determined after the future of Jeremy Cameron is settled.
We can only hope that our recruiters are still in the game.


The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.

If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Rocket
Club Player
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon 18 Jul 2005 11:04am
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878137Post Rocket »

Doubtful AFL cash will be on offer after year AFL have had....


User avatar
skeptic
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 17028
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
Has thanked: 3647 times
Been thanked: 2918 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878139Post skeptic »

Plus is it really in Caldwell’s interest to declare wholly and solely for St.Kilda?

I would argue that weakens his position and it may even weaken ours


User avatar
Devilhead
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8393
Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:56pm
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 1174 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878152Post Devilhead »

Some are saying that Caldwell won't announce until after the GWS B&F - though no one knows when that date is


The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
Vortex
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6472
Joined: Fri 18 Sep 2020 6:51am
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 1025 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878153Post Vortex »

cwrcyn wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 2:53pm It's been three weeks since GWS ended their season. It's been one week since we finished ours. I've no doubt that St Kilda has had Caldwell's manager well informed of our interest, most likely since mid season. The fact that Caldwell has yet to declare his intentions suggests to me that our chances of snaring him are diminishing as each day passes. Here he is, out of contract, and with the lure of coming back to Victoria and playing for the team he grew up rabidly supporting, and yet no declaration from he or his manager.

The two most logical scenarios are

1. GWS is working overtime to keep him and he feels the pressure to re-sign.

2. His manager is playing us off against GWS to maximise the $$$$

Then there's the more fanciful scenario


3. After the Ben King situation of last year, where it was obvious that AFL intervention came into play, could it be
that the same kind of AFL pressure is being put on Caldwell in order to protect an expansion team at risk of going into decline?
I can absolutely guarantee you that option 3 is in play. There are 12 executives at AFL headquarters who enjoy million dollar salaries and genourous bonuses for achieving various KPIs. One of which is grand final appearances and flags for the franchise teams.

Suffice to say these executives where as happy as pigs in muck at last years grand final, with the sound of back slapping louder than what was happening out on the ground.

GWS was imploding in the weeks leading up to us feasting on their carcass and the AFL has stepped in. The executives are very concerned. They don't want another failure like the GCS failed attempt that is only now starting to recover.


fugazi
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4243
Joined: Thu 25 Mar 2004 2:47pm
Location: incarnate
Has thanked: 286 times
Been thanked: 694 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878154Post fugazi »

I agree with the OP with scenarios 1 and 2.
I think it is a combo of those two.

My (completely baseless) gut feel is....he would like to come but is having a bit of a guilt trip from the club around loyalty.

All I would say is....Who do you want to have an entire playing career with?

Do you want to be a 200 game player in finals for the side you grew up fanatically supporting? Or do it with a product of the AFL marketing department?


Nee!
CQ SAINT
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6080
Joined: Sat 12 Sep 2015 1:03pm
Has thanked: 337 times
Been thanked: 1568 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878159Post CQ SAINT »

Vortex wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 4:14pm
cwrcyn wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 2:53pm It's been three weeks since GWS ended their season. It's been one week since we finished ours. I've no doubt that St Kilda has had Caldwell's manager well informed of our interest, most likely since mid season. The fact that Caldwell has yet to declare his intentions suggests to me that our chances of snaring him are diminishing as each day passes. Here he is, out of contract, and with the lure of coming back to Victoria and playing for the team he grew up rabidly supporting, and yet no declaration from he or his manager.

The two most logical scenarios are

1. GWS is working overtime to keep him and he feels the pressure to re-sign.

2. His manager is playing us off against GWS to maximise the $$$$

Then there's the more fanciful scenario


3. After the Ben King situation of last year, where it was obvious that AFL intervention came into play, could it be
that the same kind of AFL pressure is being put on Caldwell in order to protect an expansion team at risk of going into decline?
I can absolutely guarantee you that option 3 is in play. There are 12 executives at AFL headquarters who enjoy million dollar salaries and genourous bonuses for achieving various KPIs. One of which is grand final appearances and flags for the franchise teams.

Suffice to say these executives where as happy as pigs in muck at last years grand final, with the sound of back slapping louder than what was happening out on the ground.

GWS was imploding in the weeks leading up to us feasting on their carcass and the AFL has stepped in. The executives are very concerned. They don't want another failure like the GCS failed attempt that is only now starting to recover.
I'm not completely sure that there is enough cash to spend further funds on the development of the game in the NRL's heartland.
How could you justify the expenditure amidst all the cuts?
Oh yeah, It's the AFL.


older saint
SS Life Member
Posts: 3380
Joined: Wed 12 Sep 2007 5:30pm
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 519 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878161Post older saint »

I think the Cameron situation plays here too. It is a significant salary move either way if he stays or goes and that will affect what they can offer others.
They needed to lose come salary and Williams only brings them back square.

The thing is if it is about game time Cameorn leaving doesn't really help that


CQ SAINT
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6080
Joined: Sat 12 Sep 2015 1:03pm
Has thanked: 337 times
Been thanked: 1568 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878163Post CQ SAINT »

After last year's effort, the longer we wait for announcements, the better. Let's hope that apart from the obvious link to Caldwell, we are still dealing on the last day. Patience.


User avatar
Devilhead
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8393
Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:56pm
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 1174 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878164Post Devilhead »

cwrcyn wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 2:53pm
3. After the Ben King situation of last year, where it was obvious that AFL intervention came into play, could it be
that the same kind of AFL pressure is being put on Caldwell in order to protect an expansion team at risk of going into decline?
If the AFL are applying pressure then surely its on Cameron staying and not Caldwell


The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
User avatar
ace
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10781
Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 828 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878166Post ace »

Vortex wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 4:14pm
cwrcyn wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 2:53pm It's been three weeks since GWS ended their season. It's been one week since we finished ours. I've no doubt that St Kilda has had Caldwell's manager well informed of our interest, most likely since mid season. The fact that Caldwell has yet to declare his intentions suggests to me that our chances of snaring him are diminishing as each day passes. Here he is, out of contract, and with the lure of coming back to Victoria and playing for the team he grew up rabidly supporting, and yet no declaration from he or his manager.

The two most logical scenarios are

1. GWS is working overtime to keep him and he feels the pressure to re-sign.

2. His manager is playing us off against GWS to maximise the $$$$

Then there's the more fanciful scenario


3. After the Ben King situation of last year, where it was obvious that AFL intervention came into play, could it be
that the same kind of AFL pressure is being put on Caldwell in order to protect an expansion team at risk of going into decline?
I can absolutely guarantee you that option 3 is in play. There are 12 executives at AFL headquarters who enjoy million dollar salaries and genourous bonuses for achieving various KPIs. One of which is grand final appearances and flags for the franchise teams.

Suffice to say these executives where as happy as pigs in muck at last years grand final, with the sound of back slapping louder than what was happening out on the ground.

GWS was imploding in the weeks leading up to us feasting on their carcass and the AFL has stepped in. The executives are very concerned. They don't want another failure like the GCS failed attempt that is only now starting to recover.
Where did you obtain access to the AFL remuneration report.
Even most publicly listed companies only release remuneration plans for directors and the CEO, sometimes CFO but not the 12 most senior executives.
The AFL is not publicly listed so does not need shareholders to see and vote on the remuneration report.


The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.

If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Gershwin
Club Player
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue 06 Apr 2004 2:05pm
Location: NE Victoria
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 283 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878167Post Gershwin »

AFL Trade Rumours, Draft & Offseason News
3:43pm Thursday.

"Giants youngster Jye Caldwell appears more and more likely to nominate St Kilda as his preferred destination."


summertime and the living is easy ........
Leo.J
SS Life Member
Posts: 3122
Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2005 8:29pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878170Post Leo.J »

I reckon he’ll be waiting until after their B&F.

They’re probably sticking to their original date, which would of been scheduled for after the GF, as they can most probably still have a crowd and make some money.


User avatar
asiu
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10313
Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm
Has thanked: 1327 times
Been thanked: 932 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878175Post asiu »

i like that rumour

are we all happy if that happens ?


Image
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.

.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
User avatar
Sanctorum
Club Player
Posts: 1941
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2014 10:08pm
Has thanked: 1523 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878177Post Sanctorum »

Vortex wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 4:14pm
I can absolutely guarantee you that option 3 is in play. There are 12 executives at AFL headquarters who enjoy million dollar salaries and genourous bonuses for achieving various KPIs. One of which is grand final appearances and flags for the franchise teams.

Suffice to say these executives where as happy as pigs in muck at last years grand final, with the sound of back slapping louder than what was happening out on the ground.

GWS was imploding in the weeks leading up to us feasting on their carcass and the AFL has stepped in. The executives are very concerned. They don't want another failure like the GCS failed attempt that is only now starting to recover.
It is fanciful to suggest that Jye Caldwell has the status, at age 20 and just 11 games, to be of any concern whatsoever to the AFL administration if he were to seek to leave GWS to play elsewhere in 2021.

He may have been pick 11 in the 2018 draft but that hardly puts him at elite level and it is not as if the Giants are bereft of highly talented midfielders on their list.


When one door closes and another door opens, you are probably in prison..

Sometimes, someone unexpected comes into your life out of nowhere, makes your heart race, and changes you forever. We call those people cops.

My luck is like a bald guy who just won a comb.

Anon
User avatar
Waltzing St Kilda
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2010 5:20am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878178Post Waltzing St Kilda »

I enjoyed the Robert Ludlum book.


Vortex
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6472
Joined: Fri 18 Sep 2020 6:51am
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 1025 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878179Post Vortex »

Sanctorum wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 6:49pm
Vortex wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 4:14pm
I can absolutely guarantee you that option 3 is in play. There are 12 executives at AFL headquarters who enjoy million dollar salaries and genourous bonuses for achieving various KPIs. One of which is grand final appearances and flags for the franchise teams.

Suffice to say these executives where as happy as pigs in muck at last years grand final, with the sound of back slapping louder than what was happening out on the ground.

GWS was imploding in the weeks leading up to us feasting on their carcass and the AFL has stepped in. The executives are very concerned. They don't want another failure like the GCS failed attempt that is only now starting to recover.
It is fanciful to suggest that Jye Caldwell has the status, at age 20 and just 11 games, to be of any concern whatsoever to the AFL administration if he were to seek to leave GWS to play elsewhere in 2021.

He may have been pick 11 in the 2018 draft but that hardly puts him at elite level and it is not as if the Giants are bereft of highly talented midfielders on their list.
I tend to agree. Don't get me wrong I think he'd be a good get at the rigjt price but my concern is he won't meet our needs next year as I believe our list needs a known quantity A grade midfielder now.

In a dream scenario we'd snare Jye and said A grader.


Rocket
Club Player
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon 18 Jul 2005 11:04am
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878180Post Rocket »

Need to keep in mind he was pick 11 in 2018 Superdraft. Zac Butters was pick 12. The Bow and arrow from Port #18.The top 20 was very strong.

Get it done Gags..


realdeal
Club Player
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue 30 Mar 2004 5:44pm
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 117 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878182Post realdeal »

Leo.J wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 5:55pm I reckon he’ll be waiting until after their B&F.

They’re probably sticking to their original date, which would of been scheduled for after the GF, as they can most probably still have a crowd and make some money.
Glad we're not dealing with Carlton then, they're not holding their b&f until next year! 🤷‍♂️


SaintJohno
Club Player
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon 27 Jan 2020 10:05pm
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 128 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878188Post SaintJohno »

I would imagine that given the salary cap has not even been agreed by the players assoc. it would be a very hard time to negotiate right now. AFL argued for a 30% reduction in salary cap today (around 4mil out of 13.1) which would have made the clubs, players and their association do a collective vomit in their mouths.


SuperDuper
Club Player
Posts: 1317
Joined: Sun 25 Mar 2012 9:45pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878204Post SuperDuper »

If he has agreed to come, there is no need for either side to "announce" it prior to the trade period.
Maybe saints are just better at keeping secrets than some other teams?


saynta
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23139
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
Has thanked: 9080 times
Been thanked: 3942 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878408Post saynta »

"The Herald Sun understands Esendon is prepared to offer Jye Caldwell a five-season deal to lure him to the Dons as well as the centre-square opportunities to help him grow into an elite inside midfielder.

The Bombers are set to make a big offer to young Giant Jye Caldwell.

Caldwell is expected to make his decision about whether to leave GWS next week as the Saints and Essendon attempt to drag him out of the Giants.

St Kilda sees him as the perfect player to round out a midfield that will see Jade Gresham return from a back stress fracture next year after a semi-final exit.

But Essendon’s five-year offer shows how determined they are to secure him and they can offer as much opportunity as he wants to play as a pure inside midfielder."

f*** off you drug affected fuckers.


User avatar
Wayne42
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4911
Joined: Mon 24 Jun 2013 10:27pm
Has thanked: 619 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878410Post Wayne42 »

Whoever Essendope ends up with in their midfield, when they win the ball and head goalward they'll have all manner of spuds in Essendope guernseys calling for the ball.

Their mids will have to kick the goals as well as win it in the midfield. :lol: :lol:

I hope St Kilda points that out whilst Caldwell is working through his conundrum.


The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
Harves Man
Club Player
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri 16 Sep 2011 9:37am
Has thanked: 3871 times
Been thanked: 150 times

Re: The Caldwell conundrum

Post: # 1878430Post Harves Man »

Waltzing St Kilda wrote: Thu 15 Oct 2020 6:55pm I enjoyed the Robert Ludlum book.

O-oh, Dad! :D


Post Reply