Where does our midfield improvement come from?

[Impatient Sainter]

The general consensus against Carlton was our midfield were well beaten. Adding Ryder & Marshall will help, but I worry about our continued poor clearance work when we dont have a dominant ruckman. Using last year as a barometer - if Steele or Jones didnt win the clearance then we got slaughtered. Teams soon woke up to sitting a tagger on either Steele or Jones and they basically limited our most damaging players.

Against Carlton Ratts showed he wasnt prepared to try Byrnes and others in the middle. He basically left the majority of the clearance work to Steele, Ross, Crouch & Jones with short bursts from Clark & Higgins. Cripps, Cerra and co basically read every tap and waltzed away with the ball, which placed far too much pressure on our defence.

We simply have to get much better at clearances if we are to become a threat eg Melbourne & Bulldogs dominance. I worry about Ratts continually going to the same players in the middle when they are getting smashed. Not only were our players 2nd to the ball, they simply couldn't put pressure on Carlton as they waltzed through into the F50. This was a common theme last year so our midfield coach, who I think this year is Lade has a lot of work to do.

Jones and Gresham have the ability to be that break away player, which both showed in the scratch match but Jones couldnt get near it against Carlton.

I also feel Gallagher & Lethlean will be shown to have pulled the wrong recruiting lever with taking Crouch over Caldwell. Caldwell was injured last year but I think this year he will fulfill his potential and go past Crouch's output. He is exactly the player we need to improve our midfield. For me Crouch is a very limited, low impact player who is another who struggles with the pace of the game and his kicking efficiency. Hopefully Owens & Windhager can come on quickly to fill that void.

[spert]

I can't see the midfield being much different to last season, and think we will still struggle to get clearances against quality opposition. Too slow basically.

[Toy Saint]

Luke Dunstan was useful last year, recon he's a big loss.

[Impatient Sainter]

I borrowed this from Stavro on BF -
Zac Jones was having a career year until injuries screwed him when we needed him most. He absolutely has A grade potential. Check out some of the games he had last season.

Round 4 26 disposals against west coast
Round 7 37 disposals 2 goals and 6 tackles against Hawthorn
Round 8 31 disposals 7 tackles against Gold Coast

Huge injury

Round 17 (first game back)26 disposals against Brisbane
Round 19 32 disposals West coast
Round 20 30 disposals 8 tackles 1 goals against Carlton
Round 23 28 disposals against Freo

It’s all about staying injury free and consistency for him.

We need Bytel to come good. Some of those glimpses he shows with his hands and his disposal. It looks elite. Just need him to find his feet.

Nb Bytel is one I overlooked who could also provide some improvement. Lets hope he can have a huge year and force his way into the side and perform to his potential. The bonus with Bytel over Crouch is he can rest forward and remain dangerous. One thing it does highlight however, is how poor our drafting of midfielders has been for almost 20 years! When only now we have a few possibles developing on our list.

[saynta]

The general consensus against Carlton was our midfield were well beaten.



Jones and Gresham have the ability to be that break away player, which both showed in the scratch match but Jones couldnt get near it against Carlton.

Understandable, seeing Jones played the last half on the bench.

[skeptic]

It’s all about whether or not... and when... the younger mids push through.

Most of our established mids have essentially peaked or playing to the standard expected
Steele, Ross, Crouch, Hill... I don’t know if there’s a ton of improvement left there. Most are at the standard we expect of them
Jones, Hannebery and Gresh... absolutely if they can get on and stay on the park
The fringe mids in Sinclair, Billings, Higgins, Coffield (next season)... sure but not as primary mids

Improvement would come from continued development of Clark, Bytel, Connolly and some of our recruits... and guys like Dmac who are not so young but stepping up
But this group is the diverse one in terms of ability with a big scope of improvement left in them

[Banger9798]

Gresham, Bytel, Byrnes, Owens and Windhager, a fit Billings

[SaintPav]

Wasn’t Crouch supposed to be good last year? I expect him to improve in his second year with us.

I don’t think we were really ever in the hunt for Caldwell because of the lucrative offer he got. I thought we were chasing both.

Treloar was the one that got away, and one could argue in hindsight that Crouch cost us, if rumours are to be believed that he preferred the Saints.

It’s only a praccie game but it looks more of the same. I hope Ratts and co have plans to try new things and mix it up a bit.

Gresham, Byrnes, Bytel, Clark (?) and maybe one of the new guys could help us improve, but it looks concerning.

We lack another gun mid which would make a very big difference. How Carlton can keep snaring big recruits like Cerra year in year out is beyond me.

[shanegrambeau]

Clark and Gresh were the ones hyped with class.
Bytel, Byrnes we’re the ones hyped with promise
Hanners, Hill, Crouch we’re hyped for experience

Then Ross and Steele for you know what you get.

How about a Smokey!! How about Butler?
He ain’t a goal shark these days.. or is he?
No tank?

He can be creative.

I would say these new guys are where the improvement is now..

We’ve bought the ‘used cars’ now.
Hanners - complete lemon
Hill - still looks like an Italian coupe but with a few electrical faults
Crouch - a WB Holden Ute .. 75K on the clock
Jones? He breaks down ..simple. But he’s a good goer when he goes
Now we are back to the junior players. Is there a Robert Harvey and a Nathan Burke in there?

[Ghost Like]

Caldwell chose Essendon OR as with Shiels, Essendon's offer chose Essendon. Which paints quite a poor picture of where St Kilda was at, when we had a supposed "war chest" that's been squandered on Godfather (superannuation) offers to Hannebery & Hill.

I am slightly more confident about our list management since. Perhaps Hanners & Hill were the eggs we needed to break to get to this point? My fingers are still firmly crossed their recruitment has not been in vain.

[MC Gusto]

I’m confident we’ll see improvement in our backline and our forward line.

I’m very worried about our midfield - at the moment it’s very workmanlike other than one star and one former gun who’s perennially injured

Crouch is a inside beast but turns it over, gresh a superstar in the making if it weren’t for the disposal, Jones pacey as f*** but can butcher it… see the pattern? And then to add salt to the injury our classy users don’t seem to have the tank!

We have a issue with our midfield and we will get shown up unless there’s a dramatic improvement

[Gershwin]

I’m starting to feel that NWM needs to play from Round 1. No pressure son.

[WellardSaint]

Don't judge us on one half-baked praccy match.
It's only one step up from intraclub.

Anyway...Ross is Ross, refuses to look before he kicks, just bangs on boot like U10 Auskick.
Steele is our elite A Grader.
If Jones can avoid injury, he's our X-factor.
Gresh as a mid? Kicking can be wayward.
Clark won't perform like Pendlebury, just doesn't have it.

Crouch is competitive but can he choose correct option and execute.
Higgins as a mid? Will he try to do the impossible n get caught, or confuse the forwards who won't know when and where to lead? Big ???

Bytel and Byrnes still young, they'll get better.

Hill n Hannas? Forget about those 2.

[Impatient Sainter]

The general consensus against Carlton was our midfield were well beaten.

Jones and Gresham have the ability to be that break away player, which both showed in the scratch match but Jones couldnt get near it against Carlton.

Understandable, seeing Jones played the last half on the bench.

He actually played half of the 3rd quarter, but even so the statement was about clearances.

Do you ever have anything positive to offer the site?

The story behind the Caldwell trade was he was ready to sign with the Saints on an agreed amount and then the Saints pulled the Crouch free agency deal, which left Caldwell to chose Essendon. Our reasoning I gather, was not having to give up draft picks in a trade which, ended up as 2 x 2nd picks.

[D.B.Cooper]

It is only one practice game, but I was disappointed that the Coach did not give more midfield minutes to players such as Byrnes, Clark, Hayes and even try Butler at a centre bounce. We know wheat we'll get from Steel, Crouch, Ross etc.

Other than Jones our midfield is one paced and I'd like to see Gresh, Clark, Billings & even Higgins at centre bounces to try and change things up.

We'll have to wait a at least 2-3 years for NWM, Owens and Windhanger to have a serious impact.

Hopefully the younger mids get a run next practice match.

[Vortex]

A big year for Bytel and Byrnes as they will be hopeful of cracking into the side this year on a permanent basis.

If we are injury free it's hard to see who they push out though if this quartet remain injury free.

Steele
Hanners
Crouch
Jones

[D.B.Cooper]

A big year for Bytel and Byrnes as they will be hopeful of cracking into the side this year on a permanent basis.

If we are injury free it's hard to see who they push out though if this quartet remain injury free.

Steele
Hanners
Crouch
Jones

I like Bytel but he is one paced based on 2021 output like Crouch & Ross and a very similar player to Crouch, so I don’t see how he can play in a midfield containing Crouch & Ross and I bet the Coach goes to the former pair as first options.

Jones is crucial for clearances as is Gresh but we need Hill & Billings to link up and use their foot skills. Perhaps Butker & Higgins offer something here as well.

I only watched on Kayo but there was a couple of instances where Hill just jogged along spectating.

We are desperate for some midfield classy ball users and pace but I don’t see it evolving from the current senior group.

I haven’t considered Hanners based on his inability to get on the park. If he does play I still can’t see him being a potent mid. Perhaps Byrnes steps up, he show some speed and grit and takes the game on. It would be nice for one of the new boys to break through for a game or three in the first half of the season.

I still think a fit Billings is a very damaging player at his peak and one we desperately need to fire at wing or half forward.

If Hill & Billings have big seasons on the wings and one of Marshall & Ryder are firing week in week out we go a long way toward playing finals.

[saynta]

The general consensus against Carlton was our midfield were well beaten.

Jones and Gresham have the ability to be that break away player, which both showed in the scratch match but Jones couldnt get near it against Carlton.

Understandable, seeing Jones played the last half on the bench.

He actually played half of the 3rd quarter, but even so the statement was about clearances.

Do you ever have anything positive to offer the site?

Yep. Do you? You seem to spend a lot of time bagging certain players and the club.

[saynta]

It is only one practice game, but I was disappointed that the Coach did not give more midfield minutes to players such as Byrnes, Clark, Hayes and even try Butler at a centre bounce. We know wheat we'll get from Steel, Crouch, Ross etc.

Other than Jones our midfield is one paced and I'd like to see Gresh, Clark, Billings & even Higgins at centre bounces to try and change things up.

We'll have to wait a at least 2-3 years for NWM, Owens and Windhanger to have a serious impact.

Hopefully the younger mids get a run next practice match.

Good post.

[cwrcyn]

Jones, Steele, and Crouch at the centre bounces is a good unit. Competitive against all other midfields. Two of those guys have to be at the stoppages each time as we rotate others through there (Byrnes, Gresham, Clark, Ross). It's not the level of depth I'd like, so finding others who can rotate though there is important, and injuries will happen, of course. Our midfield has been our weakness for quite a while, so we can only hope that Owens and Windhager can jump out of the gate. Break away speed is something we lack outside of Jones, so he's super important.

Another important thing is synergy. Can our mids work in a cohesive way? With so many disruptions last year (Gresham, Jones, Clark, Ryder, Hannebery, and Marshall missing 75 games between them), the synergy didn't occur. If we get a good run with injuries, our midfield should be far more productive

[Impatient Sainter]

The general consensus against Carlton was our midfield were well beaten.

Jones and Gresham have the ability to be that break away player, which both showed in the scratch match but Jones couldnt get near it against Carlton.

Understandable, seeing Jones played the last half on the bench.

He actually played half of the 3rd quarter, but even so the statement was about clearances.

Do you ever have anything positive to offer the site?

Yep. Do you? You seem to spend a lot of time bagging certain players and the club.

So sharing a constructive opinion (differing to yourself) in an open discussion forum, is bagging the club and players. I am no different than any other supporter, I want the absolute best for our club and until we acheive the ultimate goal I will continue to disect their decisions - good or bad.

You Saynta are so blinkered you dont see the positives in others posts, but thats your issue and everyone on this site is aware of it.

[WellardSaint]

When the coaches watch replays, do they notice the impact a guy has on his team-mates and the potential to set up plays?

How do they NOT see Ross turning it over, blazing away without looking, poor handpass to a team-mate.

In other leagues, a guy would get benched for doing Ross things.
We can't give points for just trying.
Gets the ball? Sure.
Helps the team with his disposal? Hardly.
SANDY FOR ROSS

[skeptic]

The general consensus against Carlton was our midfield were well beaten.

Jones and Gresham have the ability to be that break away player, which both showed in the scratch match but Jones couldnt get near it against Carlton.

Understandable, seeing Jones played the last half on the bench.

He actually played half of the 3rd quarter, but even so the statement was about clearances.

Do you ever have anything positive to offer the site?

Yep. Do you? You seem to spend a lot of time bagging certain players and the club.

So sharing a constructive opinion (to yourself) in an open discussion forum, is bagging the club and players. I am no different than any other supporter, I want the absolute best for our club and until we acheive the ultimate goal I will continue to disect their decisions - good or bad.

You Saynta are so blinkered you dont see the positives in others posts, but thats your issue and everyone on this site is aware of it.

I think the majority enjoy opinions, discussions and debate and you contribute a lot to this site.

Disappointing that you’ve now become the target of saynta’s conflict/whinge of the day

It was St. Byron yesterday, Vortex, Dud, myself all in the last week or so. Rest assured that his personal attacks and carry on will no doubt shift soon enough. All it will take is one person to question Ross’ disposal and it’ll be on again.

Best off ignoring if you can though the persistence can be grating

[Vortex]

We are desperate for some midfield classy ball users and pace but I don’t see it evolving from the current senior group.

The club has invested financially very heavily in this current senior group and so you'd think we are 'all chips in' until its a bust and so if we are debuting midfielders in the first half of the season then it probably means the wheels have fallen off early and the club is abandoning its plans to be a finals side.

We need to be 4 wins from the first 6 games so all the senior players will be first selected if fit. If we are travelling this good after 6 games and players like Bytel, Byrnes and Connor are getting a game by knocking out fit senior players like Hanners, Couch, Steele, Jones, Seb and Gresh then we will have every reason to be excited about the future.

[shanegrambeau]

Caldwell chose Essendon OR as with Shiels, Essendon's offer chose Essendon. Which paints quite a poor picture of where St Kilda was at, when we had a supposed "war chest" that's been squandered on Godfather (superannuation) offers to Hannebery & Hill.

I am slightly more confident about our list management since. Perhaps Hanners & Hill were the eggs we needed to break to get to this point? My fingers are still firmly crossed their recruitment has not been in vain.

I disagree with the bit about Hannas and Hill. Two different kettle of fish there.

Hannas was a forced buy..we had to spend the cash to sign off the books that year. Everyone knew it was a s*** show.
With Hill, it was more legit..a real attempt to bring class in.

While Hannas has predictably been a disaster that needs reflection, on the strategies that we employed in the first place, that got us into that desperate situation where we had no choice* , Hill has been pretty good. I think he was very useful from about the 40 % mark last season. Hannas was useless.

Useful vs useless kinda thing.

Of course, no one knows what will go down in ‘22. Hill might drop off, Hannas might be re-born as captain fantastic…

* based on the media feed.