Current Forward Set Ups across the AFL

[Sainter_Dad]

Got half way through this thread and need to point out that King does not play necessarily like a usual Tall - he is actually quite good below the knees and is quite mobile

He needs to learn to lead- however it is hard when playing 2/3/4 on 1 - so there is hope - however needs a foil

I think King / Membrey / Resting Ruck / Sharman / 2 smalls is not unworkable - but the smalls need to be where the talls bring the ball to ground and working their rings off for the crumbs.

[Devilhead]

Current standard preferred tall to medium forward marking set ups across the league (doesn't include resting Ruckman) - when players are available

Melbourne - Brown, McDonald, Fritsch (3)
Brisbane - Daniher, McStay, Hipwood (3)
Freo - Lobb, Taberner, Logue (3)
Geelong - Hawkins, Cameron, Rohan (3)
Carlton - McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (3)
Richmond - Lynch, Riewoldt, Balta (3)
Sydney - Franklin, McDonald, Heeney (3)
St Kilda - King, Membrey (2)
Collingwood - Mihocek, Cameron, Henry (3)
Bulldogs -  Naughton, then 2 of JU-H, Scache, Bruce (3)
Port - Dixon, Marshall, Georgiadis (3)
Gold Coast - Casboult, Chol (King) maybe (2 or 3)
GWS - Hogan, Himmelberg, Riccardi (3)
Hawthorn - Lewis, Koschitske, Gunston (3)
Adelaide - Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, (3)
Essendon - Wright, Jones, Stringer (3)
North - Larkey, Zurhaar (2)
West Coast - Kennedy, Darling, Waterman (3)

Reckon that is pretty close - also doesn't include marking smalls like Greene, Weightman, Elliott, etc ....

Think it's time our Match Committee wake the f-up an get with the programme

Our third tall is our second ruck. Issue is partly one has been operating on one leg for a month now

Can hardly be resting when he is playing half the time around the ground and half the time forward ...... we don't even have a 2nd tall because he is spending time down back

[The_Dud]

Membrey never plays as a defender - that would mean we he has a forward opponent


He just pops down behind the ball to play as a spare - when we are bleeding - or at the back end of quarters

He was caught out manning up Wright at one stage Friday night, with all the tall defenders we already have work that one out!

I also think Sharman should be given an extended run in the seniors.

[Ghost Like]

Membrey never plays as a defender - that would mean we he has a forward opponent


He just pops down behind the ball to play as a spare - when we are bleeding - or at the back end of quarters

An obvious yet ultimate futile observation. He's down there because he could not attract & secure it in the area he's paid to perform in.

[skeptic]

The other thing that’s frustrating is that if you have 3 on King... what exactly are their opponents doing?

[B.M]

No ghost

He’s down there because the midfield is getting beaten and our backs are under the pump and he is sent back (by the coach) to stem the bleeding

Or he does it late in quarters to protect a lead or stabilise

I thought that was pretty obvious

Is Membrey a whipping boy now Ross has made everyone look stupid?

[Teflon]

No ghost

He’s down there because the midfield is getting beaten and our backs are under the pump and he is sent back (by the coach) to stem the bleeding

Or he does it late in quarters to protect a lead or stabilise

I thought that was pretty obvious

Is Membrey a whipping boy now Ross has made everyone look stupid?

Membrey has not been performing as a forward - period.
He escapes scrutiny often but for a supposed no 2 forward to draw a defender from King and be a viable alternative lead up option he’s poor.
I don’t give a Shyte why he’s down back
He’s a forward
He and Higgins can’t play in the same forward half and have no impact
I’d give Sharman an extended run in the seniors IF he comes on Tim is trade bait

[skeptic]

No ghost

He’s down there because the midfield is getting beaten and our backs are under the pump and he is sent back (by the coach) to stem the bleeding

Or he does it late in quarters to protect a lead or stabilise

I thought that was pretty obvious

Is Membrey a whipping boy now Ross has made everyone look stupid?

Pls

Playing better is hardly making everybody look stupid. Notice how nobody criticises anymore? The non-existent vendetta isn’t suddenly over, he’s just silenced the critics by consistently playing to his best, the lack of which was the criticism in the first place. The only ones that refuses to acknowledge Ross’ improvement is you and the other

[spert]

Maybe King needs a game at Sandy to wake him up- he plays lazy and it has showed up in the last couple of weeks.

[older saint]

Current standard preferred tall to medium forward marking set ups across the league (doesn't include resting Ruckman) - when players are available

Melbourne - Brown, McDonald, Fritsch (3)
Brisbane - Daniher, McStay, Hipwood (3)
Freo - Lobb, Taberner, Logue (3)
Geelong - Hawkins, Cameron, Rohan (3)
Carlton - McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (3)
Richmond - Lynch, Riewoldt, Balta (3)
Sydney - Franklin, McDonald, Heeney (3)
St Kilda - King, Membrey (2)
Collingwood - Mihocek, Cameron, Henry (3)
Bulldogs -  Naughton, then 2 of JU-H, Scache, Bruce (3)
Port - Dixon, Marshall, Georgiadis (3)
Gold Coast - Casboult, Chol (King) maybe (2 or 3)
GWS - Hogan, Himmelberg, Riccardi (3)
Hawthorn - Lewis, Koschitske, Gunston (3)
Adelaide - Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, (3)
Essendon - Wright, Jones, Stringer (3)
North - Larkey, Zurhaar (2)
West Coast - Kennedy, Darling, Waterman (3)

Reckon that is pretty close - also doesn't include marking smalls like Greene, Weightman, Elliott, etc ....

Think it's time our Match Committee wake the f-up an get with the programme

Our third tall is our second ruck. Issue is partly one has been operating on one leg for a month now

Can hardly be resting when he is playing half the time around the ground and half the time forward ...... we don't even have a 2nd tall because he is spending time down back

Normally he doesn't spend long down back however he had to on the weekend as the midfield and overall effort of the side was so pathetic it was required.
As a tall forward he is elite for disposals, , marks, and average for goals.
I agree he would normally play forward and my comment re Membrey back was in response to him being dropped due to form. Perhaps the greater indictment from Friday and him going back and taking Marks is the inability of either our rucks or other defenders to do so.

[older saint]

Current standard preferred tall to medium forward marking set ups across the league (doesn't include resting Ruckman) - when players are available

Melbourne - Brown, McDonald, Fritsch (3)
Brisbane - Daniher, McStay, Hipwood (3)
Freo - Lobb, Taberner, Logue (3)
Geelong - Hawkins, Cameron, Rohan (3)
Carlton - McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (3)
Richmond - Lynch, Riewoldt, Balta (3)
Sydney - Franklin, McDonald, Heeney (3)
St Kilda - King, Membrey (2)
Collingwood - Mihocek, Cameron, Henry (3)
Bulldogs -  Naughton, then 2 of JU-H, Scache, Bruce (3)
Port - Dixon, Marshall, Georgiadis (3)
Gold Coast - Casboult, Chol (King) maybe (2 or 3)
GWS - Hogan, Himmelberg, Riccardi (3)
Hawthorn - Lewis, Koschitske, Gunston (3)
Adelaide - Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, (3)
Essendon - Wright, Jones, Stringer (3)
North - Larkey, Zurhaar (2)
West Coast - Kennedy, Darling, Waterman (3)

Reckon that is pretty close - also doesn't include marking smalls like Greene, Weightman, Elliott, etc ....

Think it's time our Match Committee wake the f-up an get with the programme

Our third tall is our second ruck. Issue is partly one has been operating on one leg for a month now

Can hardly be resting when he is playing half the time around the ground and half the time forward ...... we don't even have a 2nd tall because he is spending time down back

Normally he doesn't spend long down back however he had to on the weekend as the midfield and overall effort of the side was so pathetic it was required.
As a tall forward he is elite for disposals, , marks, and average for goals.
I agree he would normally play forward and my comment re Membrey back was in response to him being dropped due to form. Perhaps the greater indictment from Friday and him going back and taking Marks is the inability of either our rucks or other defenders to do so. Yes having to go back hurts King.
Also never mentioned resting - it like Melbourne a duel position player Marshall/Ryder in the same way Gawn/ Jackson is.

[B.M]

Ross

Improved?
He’s won 2 B&Fs

He played a different role in 2020 & 21

Now he’s back in the centre square he’s getting more footy and back to 2015-2019 levels

He was never a poor footballer- as you may have thought

And he certainly hasn’t improved as a 28yo all of a sudden

[Crossy66]

Problem with Sharman is that he just isn't that good. His VFL form is meh.
I think he gets overated mainly due to his game against Geelong, where they paid him no respect and let him run around without an opponent.
He's a nice kick and can take a mark, but if he can't dominate consistently at VFL level, how is he going going to be the answer at AFL level?

[Sanctorum]

Problem with Sharman is that he just isn't that good. His VFL form is meh.
I think he gets overated mainly due to his game against Geelong, where they paid him no respect and let him run around without an opponent.
He's a nice kick and can take a mark, but if he can't dominate consistently at VFL level, how is he going going to be the answer at AFL level?

I'm not convinced that Sharman's performance in the VFL, notably his low level of the magical disposals stats is necessarily indicative of his quality. Any player who contributed 3 goals in the VFL is worthy of consideration, in Sharman's case he will be playing the role set for him by the coaches and for all we know they judge him favourably on how he performs in that role.

The essence of this thread is that St Kilda has failed to include a 3rd tall forward since Jack Hayes was injured which is an indictment of the match committee, and Sharman has demonstrated his ability to play in that position, so I believe it has been a mistake to leave him out.

The lack of a 3rd tall forward was most definitely a major factor in the loss against Essendon, and probably the previous week against the Lions as well. All the more so since Higgins has been in very poor form since returning after the bye, as well as Marshall being out of sorts at the moment.

[Crossy66]

Problem with Sharman is that he just isn't that good. His VFL form is meh.
I think he gets overated mainly due to his game against Geelong, where they paid him no respect and let him run around without an opponent.
He's a nice kick and can take a mark, but if he can't dominate consistently at VFL level, how is he going going to be the answer at AFL level?

I'm not convinced that Sharman's performance in the VFL, notably his low level of the magical disposals stats is necessarily indicative of his quality. Any player who contributed 3 goals in the VFL is worthy of consideration, in Sharman's case he will be playing the role set for him by the coaches and for all we know they judge him favourably on how he performs in that role.

The essence of this thread is that St Kilda has failed to include a 3rd tall forward since Jack Hayes was injured which is an indictment of the match committee, and Sharman has demonstrated his ability to play in that position, so I believe it has been a mistake to leave him out.

The lack of a 3rd tall forward was most definitely a major factor in the loss against Essendon, and probably the previous week against the Lions as well. All the more so since Higgins has been in very poor form since returning after the bye, as well as Marshall being out of sorts at the moment.

Fair enough. But I think the "need a 3rd tall" opinion , and the "play Sharman" opinion, are mutually exclusive. I actually think the coaches would like the third tall if his name is "Jack Hayes". They just don't think it's Cooper. You are right that we don't know what Cooper's instructions are in the VFL, but fair to say whatever they are, they are not being met
I think they tried him a couple of times this season and weren't happy.
But I would be sure Hayes would be in every week assuming no injury and continued form.

[Devilhead]

Sharman has kicked 4 & 3 goals in the VFL over the last 2 weeks ..... sounds like terrible form to me and likely instructions of kicking 8 & 7 are not being met

[Devilhead]

Sorry but nothing wrong with Cooper's form in the VFL ... the problem lies with the Match Committee's preference of selecting a small forward line with 1.5 permanent tall marking forwards

Every other club has a preference for 3 tall marking forwards but our Match Committee prefer to set up with half of that

Nothing to do with Cooper's form .... everything to do with our MCs belligerent dumb arse stupid idea that 1.5 tall marking forwards is a POD and a good idea

[Crossy66]

Sharman has kicked 4 & 3 goals in the VFL over the last 2 weeks ..... sounds like terrible form to me and likely instructions of kicking 8 & 7 are not being met

Sharman kicked the 3 the day after our last game, so wouldn't have come in to consideration. His game against the Sharks was ok too, but I reckon it's the first time this year he has backed up a second week. His 3 AFL outings this year haven't been much to write home about.Perhaps he comes into consideration this week.
Btw, the week he kicked four, I think Butler kicked five, so if we are going by goals kicked.......

[Vortex]

Sharman has kicked 4 & 3 goals in the VFL over the last 2 weeks ..... sounds like terrible form to me and likely instructions of kicking 8 & 7 are not being met

Kicking goals at VFL is pretty easy to do, just ask Buttler.

7 possessions in a VFL game is what's holding Sharman back.

Our forward line has a few issues one of which is not being able to lock the ball in our F50 and so if you are a one trick pony and can't take a contested mark, can't bring the ball to ground or chase and tackle when you don't have the ball then 0.8 goals a game isnt enough to get a game....just at a guess.

[CarlD]

The small forward set up has proven to have deficiencies regularly.

Small forwards need to hold the ball in and take advantage of loose crumbs.

A mosquito fleet might work if most had some reasonable pace - only Butler has. Higgins can be combative (for his size) in the air.

Is it a surprise when they get outmarked or are beaten by bigger bodies?

I prefer Sharman, or even throw in Max Heath at a pinch. Rotate the rucks off the bench if you must.

The weakness in Sharman's game may well be his lack of pressure without the ball so that is really no different from how the small forwards are operating now. Sharman does have upside with his marking and being a handy kick for goal. He can also be used as a link up player which the smalls don't seem to be able to manage.

The lack of goal-kicking mids and speed in the midfield also doesn't help either so the Saints need to be smarter with their method of play to achieve results - I don't think all these smalls running around is the answer.

[Devilhead]

Sharman has kicked 4 & 3 goals in the VFL over the last 2 weeks ..... sounds like terrible form to me and likely instructions of kicking 8 & 7 are not being met

Kicking goals at VFL is pretty easy to do, just ask Buttler.

7 possessions in a VFL game is what's holding Sharman back.

Our forward line has a few issues one of which is not being able to lock the ball in our F50 and so if you are a one trick pony and can't take a contested mark, can't bring the ball to ground or chase and tackle when you don't have the ball then 0.8 goals a game isnt enough to get a game....just at a guess.

Yes the issue of not being able to lock the ball in the forward 50 is a recent one .... when we have gone with a small forward set up .... the last 2 weeks .... nothing to do with Sharman

Sharman in the side takes the defender focus off King and hence King doesn't get mauled because Sharman's opponent needs to be accountable to another marking tall ...... Sharman ..... same when Membrey is playing permanently forward.... this allows King to get off the leash rather than fight a 3 on 1 contest

When Sharman was in the side in his last 3 games King kicked 2, 6 & 4 ....... Membrey kicked 2, 2 & 2 .......Sharman got a goal in every game ....... we won every game

Add Higgins getting fitter and being good in the air and a smart operator and Gresh playing more forward with Billings chipping in and getting fitter and the 2nd ruck rotating in / or phasing into the forward unmarked .... all of sudden we have the makings of a very potent forward line with good structure similar to what 16 other teams are playing

If its wet then maybe a small forward structure might be better .... dependent on the opponent of course

[B.M]

Can’t anyone see Marshall when he is forward?

Hard to miss a 201cm 104kg man I would’ve thought

[Vortex]

Sharman has kicked 4 & 3 goals in the VFL over the last 2 weeks ..... sounds like terrible form to me and likely instructions of kicking 8 & 7 are not being met

Kicking goals at VFL is pretty easy to do, just ask Buttler.

7 possessions in a VFL game is what's holding Sharman back.

Our forward line has a few issues one of which is not being able to lock the ball in our F50 and so if you are a one trick pony and can't take a contested mark, can't bring the ball to ground or chase and tackle when you don't have the ball then 0.8 goals a game isnt enough to get a game....just at a guess.

Yes the issue of not being able to lock the ball in the forward 50 is a recent one .... when we have gone with a small forward set up .... the last 2 weeks .... nothing to do with Sharman

Sharman in the side takes the defender focus off King and hence King doesn't get mauled because Sharman's opponent needs to be accountable to another marking tall ...... Sharman ..... same when Membrey is playing permanently forward.... this allows King to get off the leash rather than fight a 3 on 1 contest

When Sharman was in the side in his last 3 games King kicked 2, 6 & 4 ....... Membrey kicked 2, 2 & 2 .......Sharman got a goal in every game ....... we won every game

Add Higgins getting fitter and being good in the air and a smart operator and Gresh playing more forward with Billings chipping in and getting fitter and the 2nd ruck rotating in / or phasing into the forward unmarked .... all of sudden we have the makings of a very potent forward line with good structure similar to what 16 other teams are playing

If its wet then maybe a small forward structure might be better .... dependent on the opponent of course

You sure? In the game against Geelong he competed for the same ball as King on occasion, and really looked lost without ball in hand which wasn't much. And then he looked like he didn't belong on an AFL field against the two teams who are fighting for the wooden spoon playing atrociously against the Crows and North.

He's hasn't looked much better in his VFL games.

Lots of myth and legend about Sharman which has obviously come from his first couple of games where he was able to get onto some cheap goals. Watch his first game against the Cats if you want an example of a cheap goal.

He can't take a contested mark, doesn't bring the ball to ground and doesn't chase or tackle, at 0.8 goals for 3 games in 22 hardly is positive signs.

[Ghost Like]

I actually thought Sharman can take a contested mark plus he knows how to lead. Going at a goal a game seems like gangbusters in comparison to others at the moment.

Agree, tackling & chasing are parts of his game that need work but the way the football is bounding out of our forward line it appears others aren't good at that either.

[Vortex]

I actually thought Sharman can take a contested mark plus he knows how to lead. Going at a goal a game seems like gangbusters in comparison to others at the moment.

Agree, tackling & chasing are parts of his game that need work but the way the football is bounding out of our forward line it appears others aren't good at that either.

Checkout his highlights reel on YouTube, I don't think he's taken a contested mark in 7 AFL games.

It probably starts a debate about what a contested mark is but it certainly looks like he doesn't earn his marks from welcoming body contact.