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spert wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jun 2022 10:42am
King is highly talented as is Higgins and Butler, but they played very lazy unaccountable footy the other night, as did Jones in the middle.
I'm not sure if the forward line was the main issue to the loss. We only had 46 inside 50's.
When we got it in there it wasn't graceful and it wasn't very productive either
We played lazy as a team, but also too many individuals trying to do too much and the mids don't share the footy.
The stats don't lie. There's evidence that too many players didn't tackle, didn't chase and didn't work hard to win the footy back
Pretty accurate. We played with no intensity, little pressure. We paid little respect to the opposition, tried to be too clever rather than giving first option.
Best example is Gresham. First half tried to be Dusty and coughed it up atleast 8 times. Start of the third, won most of the clearances, gave the first option and bang- 5 goals.
Our issues are mostly above the shoulders imho.
Yep..but add the Max King hyper-focus component.
From AFL's website
St Kilda's inside 50 targets 2022
Max King 116 times he has been hit up as a target in F50, from 13 games
Tim Membrey 45 from 13
Jack Higgins 39 from 10
Marshall 34 from 12
Hayes 18 from 5
Paddy R 11 times from 9
Do you think it's inappropriate for a big marking forward to receive the most balls inbound?
He's 51 games into his career. He was drafted to do exactly what it is you're saying is a hyper focus....he wasn't drafted to crumb or bull his way through the midfield or to provide elegant tap work or to defend or to run the wings like the wind ....he was drafted to post up ( using a basketball term) and grab the damn pill when it comes his way, provide leads, take contested marks and kick goals....if that's too much then go be a defender. He's be great as a defender and maybe that's where he really belongs? Maybe they got it wrong as kids and HE was the backman not Ben. Ben's flourishing when healthy in the forward and doesn't seem to have the fear factor Max does...afraid to lead, afraid to smash packs, afraid to kick straight ( unless he's confident his opponent is weak...then he's Plugga)
A tad harsh Lee! Certainly Max is not the player we know he will be. But trajectory is good. Needs some more physical maturity and kick consistency.
Looking at Friday's game, most times, bombers had one on ones in our forward line, so mids just bombed at the biggest target they could see.
The third QTR showed what happens when you win clearances, give first option and enter the50 at speed- very difficult to defend!
The reality is we don't know anything. We WANT him to great. But many players have glimpses, some have them every game and keep teams and fans on the hook for years until it's finally evident they are a really good player but never the superstar the team needed or wanted.
Max MAY be great one day but most great players erupt between 50-75 games so it's now...it's his time to start. He has 100% improved from his season last year. But it's still really inconsistent, he needs the perfect opportunity to look great and great player make bad situations turn....I don't know that he's got that...I haven't seen it yet.
I hope so, I hope his 4th season is like St Nicks and he erupts and kicks 67! AND his 1% grow like Nicks did....that extra effort.
I think it can.
Check out my posts from early in Max's career where I repeat Nick and others and state Max HAD to have another great forward to lean on, be mentored by, guided and protected, Nick said Max will NEVER be great without that mentor playing up front....he didn't and doesn't have it now.
Yes Max needs a partner in crime ...... his brother would be perfect
Opposition teams would have sweaty bollocks for years trying to contain those 2 ..... along with a 3rd medium tall marking option and some busy bee crafty smalls
spert wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jun 2022 10:42am
King is highly talented as is Higgins and Butler, but they played very lazy unaccountable footy the other night, as did Jones in the middle.
I'm not sure if the forward line was the main issue to the loss. We only had 46 inside 50's.
When we got it in there it wasn't graceful and it wasn't very productive either
We played lazy as a team, but also too many individuals trying to do too much and the mids don't share the footy.
The stats don't lie. There's evidence that too many players didn't tackle, didn't chase and didn't work hard to win the footy back
Pretty accurate. We played with no intensity, little pressure. We paid little respect to the opposition, tried to be too clever rather than giving first option.
Best example is Gresham. First half tried to be Dusty and coughed it up atleast 8 times. Start of the third, won most of the clearances, gave the first option and bang- 5 goals.
Our issues are mostly above the shoulders imho.
Yep..but add the Max King hyper-focus component.
From AFL's website
St Kilda's inside 50 targets 2022
Max King 116 times he has been hit up as a target in F50, from 13 games
Tim Membrey 45 from 13
Jack Higgins 39 from 10
Marshall 34 from 12
Hayes 18 from 5
Paddy R 11 times from 9
Do you think it's inappropriate for a big marking forward to receive the most balls inbound?
He's 51 games into his career. He was drafted to do exactly what it is you're saying is a hyper focus....he wasn't drafted to crumb or bull his way through the midfield or to provide elegant tap work or to defend or to run the wings like the wind ....he was drafted to post up ( using a basketball term) and grab the damn pill when it comes his way, provide leads, take contested marks and kick goals....if that's too much then go be a defender. He's be great as a defender and maybe that's where he really belongs? Maybe they got it wrong as kids and HE was the backman not Ben. Ben's flourishing when healthy in the forward and doesn't seem to have the fear factor Max does...afraid to lead, afraid to smash packs, afraid to kick straight ( unless he's confident his opponent is weak...then he's Plugga)
A tad harsh Lee! Certainly Max is not the player we know he will be. But trajectory is good. Needs some more physical maturity and kick consistency.
Looking at Friday's game, most times, bombers had one on ones in our forward line, so mids just bombed at the biggest target they could see.
The third QTR showed what happens when you win clearances, give first option and enter the50 at speed- very difficult to defend!
The reality is we don't know anything. We WANT him to great. But many players have glimpses, some have them every game and keep teams and fans on the hook for years until it's finally evident they are a really good player but never the superstar the team needed or wanted.
Max MAY be great one day but most great players erupt between 50-75 games so it's now...it's his time to start. He has 100% improved from his season last year. But it's still really inconsistent, he needs the perfect opportunity to look great and great player make bad situations turn....I don't know that he's got that...I haven't seen it yet.
I hope so, I hope his 4th season is like St Nicks and he erupts and kicks 67! AND his 1% grow like Nicks did....that extra effort.
I think it can.
Check out my posts from early in Max's career where I repeat Nick and others and state Max HAD to have another great forward to lean on, be mentored by, guided and protected, Nick said Max will NEVER be great without that mentor playing up front....he didn't and doesn't have it now.
Good points. I am thinking next year will be the big leap year, but he needs mids to give him a one on one or two chance. Max looks way better on the move, just needs the ball to come in quicker and with some precision.
Was also thinking that Nick's comments were talking from experience. When he started, he had buckets, Hamill and the Gtrain watching over him. No funny business there.
spert wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jun 2022 10:42am
King is highly talented as is Higgins and Butler, but they played very lazy unaccountable footy the other night, as did Jones in the middle.
I'm not sure if the forward line was the main issue to the loss. We only had 46 inside 50's.
When we got it in there it wasn't graceful and it wasn't very productive either
We played lazy as a team, but also too many individuals trying to do too much and the mids don't share the footy.
The stats don't lie. There's evidence that too many players didn't tackle, didn't chase and didn't work hard to win the footy back
Pretty accurate. We played with no intensity, little pressure. We paid little respect to the opposition, tried to be too clever rather than giving first option.
Best example is Gresham. First half tried to be Dusty and coughed it up atleast 8 times. Start of the third, won most of the clearances, gave the first option and bang- 5 goals.
Our issues are mostly above the shoulders imho.
Yep..but add the Max King hyper-focus component.
From AFL's website
St Kilda's inside 50 targets 2022
Max King 116 times he has been hit up as a target in F50, from 13 games
Tim Membrey 45 from 13
Jack Higgins 39 from 10
Marshall 34 from 12
Hayes 18 from 5
Paddy R 11 times from 9
Do you think it's inappropriate for a big marking forward to receive the most balls inbound?
He's 51 games into his career. He was drafted to do exactly what it is you're saying is a hyper focus....he wasn't drafted to crumb or bull his way through the midfield or to provide elegant tap work or to defend or to run the wings like the wind ....he was drafted to post up ( using a basketball term) and grab the damn pill when it comes his way, provide leads, take contested marks and kick goals....if that's too much then go be a defender. He's be great as a defender and maybe that's where he really belongs? Maybe they got it wrong as kids and HE was the backman not Ben. Ben's flourishing when healthy in the forward and doesn't seem to have the fear factor Max does...afraid to lead, afraid to smash packs, afraid to kick straight ( unless he's confident his opponent is weak...then he's Plugga)
I do agree he's different than Riewoldt. He was unfairly handed the mantle of the greatest marking
forwards... Riewoldts first three seasons he played 49 games total and his third season he only kicked 30 goals (17 behind) from 22 games. So Max IS doing better than St Nick in that regard...but Nick was fierce from the get go, really keen to mark everytime the ball was near.
Nick had Fraser, Koschitze ( he was new himself but played most games so was added support), Everitt, Hall and Loewe there to mentor, guide and protect him.
So it's been a different game no doubt for Max.
But often he looks to be playing in the wrong position, whether it's coached, strategy or error I don't know. He seems very hesitant about 50% of the time to leave the spot marked on the grass and provide a lead...then the other 50% he kills it ...is it he's more confident when he's facing weaker opponent or the structure is providing support from Hayes, Membrey, Ryder/Marshall?
Something is seriously wrong though in the forward line and the mids...don't get me started ....last time I brought it up I got my head ripped off on here by the "in the know" telling me how great the small forwards and mids were performing...yet it wasn't true, they were only doing basics against weaker opponents and poor game plans. As soon as they faced stronger opponents theyve crumbled ( no tackling, no second efforts, no contest, no marking, no kicks to advantage into F50).
Good post on smalls I agree- our coaches fascination with the small forward game plan is mystifying
I do think you can have an over reliance on 1 key forward and going to King 38% of the time is too predictable
Naughton at Dogs is 25% and some think that’s too much - when he doesn’t kick a bag they lose !
Need a more multi pronged dangerous forward set up
Like Clarkson had at Hawks with Buddy Roughie and Gunston…..
Clarkson hey what’s he up to nowadays…
