Devil in the detail...

[Sanctorum]

Following is an excellent outside perspective of what led St Kilda FC to sack Brett Ratten, well worth reading as it tells it pretty well in my view:

by Daniel Cherny (The Australian 15/10/22)

Was Brett Ratten the right man to coach St Kilda in 2023? Three months ago,the Saints senior executives and board asked themselves that question andanswered in the affirmative.

By Thursday, they had changed their minds. It would be unbelievable. Except it’s the Saints. So totally on-brand.
It is not even that late in the year to sack a coach by St Kilda standards. Scott Watters was sacked in November!

As the Saints head into their 150thanniversary season next year, they will do so fittingly, with a new coach.

In all that time, only the legendary Allan Jeans – who stands alone as a St Kilda premiership coach – completed six or more seasons at the helm of the least successful of the AFL’s 10 Victorian clubs.

Was Ratten a good coach?

After 182 matches across two clubs, with lists of varying quality, spanning 15 years with a hiatus spent as an assistant coach in between, he has a winning record of 50.8 per cent. That’s a pretty fair sample size to suggest he’s a middle-of-the-road coach, unlikely to ever ascend to an all-time great, but not a disaster by any stretch.

That the Saints waited until mid-July of the year in which Ratten was coming out of contract gave a solid indication that club powerbrokers had their doubts. After making the finals in the Covid-19 shortened 2020 season, St Kilda slipped in 2021. This year was clearly going to be a referendum on his future.

St Kilda went 8-3 to the midpoint of the season; positioning itself as a top-four contender, before going 3-8 in the back half of the season. It was in line with Ratten’s career record. Had the season splits happened the other way around and the Saints started 3-8, it stands to reason that there is no way Ratten would have been re-signed. They had lost three in a row before beating Carlton when the deal was finally consummated heading into St Kilda’s round 17 game against Fremantle, by which point the debate about whether he should continue had already flipped several times.

Yet within six weeks the Saints had tumbled from finals calculations and had flagged a post-season review of the football department.

These reviews are invariably ominous, but with a coach freshly re-signed the widespread assumption was that any tinkering would be around or above him. Even as Geoff Walsh, something of a coaching grim reaper in recent times, stepped nto the mantle as St Kilda’s head of football, there seemed no sense that Ratten was imperilled, at least not until next year.

Just last week Ratten was talking to recruit Zaine Cordy, the sole addition forthe Saints during a trade period noteworthy for how little activity the club engaged in.

As St Kilda fans searched for answers late on Thursday night after the story of Ratten’s sacking broke, it stood to reason that the review could not have been particularly kind to the coach, or he would still be in the job.

The key question yet unanswered is whether the Saints had someone lined up to replace Ratten. We will know soon. For now, though, it is worth reflecting on how it all came to this for St Kilda.

Again.

The harsh truth is that Ratten is only a middling senior AFL coach but he also paid the price for the errors of many others.

Former chief executive Matt Finnis led the club back to Moorabbin but his on-field legacy from nine years in charge is mired in mediocrity.
As speculation simmers around whether Ross Lyon could go back to the Saints, it is worth considering what has become of them in the 11 years since his stealth defection to Fremantle.

St Kilda of 2012-22 will stand as a historically good guide of how not to rebuild. There was always going to be pain for the Saints after they kept topping up to win the elusive second premiership only to fall off the perch under Watters in 2013.

The drafting of Tony Elshaug and Ameet Bains was categorically poor.

Of players drafted by St Kilda since 2004, only Jack Sinclair – taken as a rookie eight years ago – has made the All-Australian team.

Development and environment are obviously factors, too, but no Saint has left the club and made the AA team either in that period.

We know all the horror stories.

Patrick McCartin over Christian Petracca. Jack Billings over Marcus Bontempelli. Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield over Aaron Naughton.

Trading in has been a mixed bag, but overall only Jack Steele, Dylan Roberton, Dougal Howard, Tim Membrey, Nathan Brown and Paddy Ryder can be deemed definitive successes from the players brought to the Saints from other clubs over the past decade.

And of that group only Steele has been an All-Australian at the Saints.

So much draft capital has been used in that time for players who simply have not moved the needle enough. Dan Hannebery and Bradley Hill are the ones fresh in the memory but what about Billy Longer and Nathan Freeman? Zak Jones was dropped late in the year. Jack Higgins has stagnated.

A 2019 trade period celebrated for the yielding of five mature-age players led to a sugar-hit to finish sixth and win a final in 2020. A good season, sure, but was that actually St Kilda peaking?
The Saints aren’t being upfront about when they believe they will seriously contend for a premiership. Maybe they don’t know themselves. Last year president Andrew Bassat said the window would likely open in 2022. List manager James Gallagher said on Wednesday that he didn’t adhere to the window idea.

In any case he stressed that having missed out on Jordan De Goey the Saints would not just recruit indiscriminately and try to finish sixth.

That he was open to trading Clark to move up the draft order showed a realisation that there could be no more trading shortcuts.

How much Ratten encouraged the top-up strategy is hard to say, but it hasn’t worked.

Unable to stop points from turnover through the first half of 2021, the Saints tightened their ship, but their offensive game had withered by the end of2022.

At their best under Ratten in 2020 the Saints played a high-octane game forward of centre and yet were still sound defensively, with Ryder and Rowan Marshall providing a huge competitive advantage as a one-two ruck/forward punch.

There were stretches in 2021 and 2022 in which it clicked, but not consistently. For this, Ratten must, and did, carry the can.

Gallagher on Wednesday cited injuries as a factor that hurt this year, but the Saints had 18 players play 18 or more games in 2022. They weren’t hit particularly hard.

Perhaps the factor most against Ratten was the compounding interest of impatience.

Since the Saints last contended for a flag, they have seen the Western Bulldogs, Richmond and Melbourne all end long premiership droughts, Geelong and Sydney – two clubs who, like the Saints, used to be pitied – have gone from barren to powerful.

The sense of urgency is growing. It took St Kilda 69 years in the VFL to win its first premiership.

Its second is 56 down and counting.

[Sainter_Dad]

The sense of urgency is growing. It took St Kilda 69 years in the VFL to win its first premiership.

Its second is 56 down and counting.[/i]

Not the best read (from a Historical point of view) - and to make worse - it was 93 years until our first (we did not win one in the VFA) - not 69 (was the official commencement of VFL in 1897) - lol

[Yorkeys]

Bog standard reporting. Formula: trot out well worn history, asks a question at the start; doesn't really answer it. Cut and paste from any number of beige articles in the archives.

Why is extraordinary that a performance review of a department results in personnel changes when the department is not performing well. Would not the opposite be grounds for criticism.

The take a stick and beat St. Kilda with their history articles seem all so mindless pile on, no meat, no insight. Would have taken 15 minutes to write and a look at Wikipedia to check coaching record. The headline however is right, the devil was in the detail of second half of 22. Writer's aggregate figures are academic 3 from 11, 27% , is the key, plus a bunch of campers unhappy with Brett's current coaching style.

I think it is too hard for any of the herd to analyse that the Saints management have acted, reviewed, implemented recommendations, will not accept a 3 in from 11performance.

Hashing the past is child's play but assessing the future possibilities is too cerebral for the media - what's the last original thought they have come up with, how do they go in the tipping. Parasites not informed analysts.

There are clubs in far worse straits than us with boards at war with themselves, coaches in limbo, and clubs with far worse records compared to resources provided to them since the start of the AFL. But its the one premiership that makes for easy column inches. When we next go top the media pack with be crying so hard, have to get a new story.

[desertsaint]

C grade coach at a D grade club. not quite the right fit.

[Teflon]

Nothing startling in that but an admission the Prez made - it’s not only coach that needs to be fixed
That said…acknowledging Ratten was average coach
IF he was driving the recruiting of top up players…telling the club the list is almost there….then best decisions have been made
Gallagher would have to be nervous
Throw $$$ at Cripps….great track record
Don’t stop at coach

[st.byron]

Bog standard reporting. Formula: trot out well worn history, asks a question at the start; doesn't really answer it. Cut and paste from any number of beige articles in the archives.

Why is extraordinary that a performance review of a department results in personnel changes when the department is not performing well. Would not the opposite be grounds for criticism.

The take a stick and beat St. Kilda with their history articles seem all so mindless pile on, no meat, no insight. Would have taken 15 minutes to write and a look at Wikipedia to check coaching record. The headline however is right, the devil was in the detail of second half of 22. Writer's aggregate figures are academic 3 from 11, 27% , is the key, plus a bunch of campers unhappy with Brett's current coaching style.

I think it is too hard for any of the herd to analyse that the Saints management have acted, reviewed, implemented recommendations, will not accept a 3 in from 11performance.

Hashing the past is child's play but assessing the future possibilities is too cerebral for the media - what's the last original thought they have come up with, how do they go in the tipping. Parasites not informed analysts.

There are clubs in far worse straits than us with boards at war with themselves, coaches in limbo, and clubs with far worse records compared to resources provided to them since the start of the AFL. But its the one premiership that makes for easy column inches. When we next go top the media pack with be crying so hard, have to get a new story.

Well said. Board to be applauded in my view for making a stand. After nearly a decade of beige on field performance and spin driven, deluded, fluffy admin, we have a massive clean out - McGlynn, Lade, Ratten, Sexton, Finnis - and a board actually making a hard nosed decision. Rather than the "dumpster fire", (as one writer on Zerohanger called the club yesterday) I think it's the most positive, optimistic thing that's happened to our club in a decade. A clear and genuine line in the sand.

[saints4eva]

Totally agree st byron

[skeptic]

Bog standard reporting. Formula: trot out well worn history, asks a question at the start; doesn't really answer it. Cut and paste from any number of beige articles in the archives.

Why is extraordinary that a performance review of a department results in personnel changes when the department is not performing well. Would not the opposite be grounds for criticism.

The take a stick and beat St. Kilda with their history articles seem all so mindless pile on, no meat, no insight. Would have taken 15 minutes to write and a look at Wikipedia to check coaching record. The headline however is right, the devil was in the detail of second half of 22. Writer's aggregate figures are academic 3 from 11, 27% , is the key, plus a bunch of campers unhappy with Brett's current coaching style.

I think it is too hard for any of the herd to analyse that the Saints management have acted, reviewed, implemented recommendations, will not accept a 3 in from 11performance.

Hashing the past is child's play but assessing the future possibilities is too cerebral for the media - what's the last original thought they have come up with, how do they go in the tipping. Parasites not informed analysts.

There are clubs in far worse straits than us with boards at war with themselves, coaches in limbo, and clubs with far worse records compared to resources provided to them since the start of the AFL. But its the one premiership that makes for easy column inches. When we next go top the media pack with be crying so hard, have to get a new story.

Well said. Board to be applauded in my view for making a stand. After nearly a decade of beige on field performance and spin driven, deluded, fluffy admin, we have a massive clean out - McGlynn, Lade, Ratten, Sexton, Finnis - and a board actually making a hard nosed decision. Rather than the "dumpster fire", (as one writer on Zerohanger called the club yesterday) I think it's the most positive, optimistic thing that's happened to our club in a decade. A clear and genuine line in the sand.

I agree to a point.

What remains to be seen is whether or not they’re working towards a good plan or going from one haphazard decision to the next.

In a big believer that strategy both at match level but also more broadly in terms of the club’s interest (financially, marketing, etc) has to have well defined short, medium and long term goals that need to be worked towards.

My concern with the club overall is that with far too much regularity, is we make a plan… don’t really think it through/implement it properly and give up on it before it’s had a reasonable opportunity to work.

Not saying this applies to Ratten as he had a reasonable run but the strategy that he was making all the right moves in July and we believed in his vision 60 days ago but now his reign is untenable is a problem.

Those two concepts really shouldn’t co-exist.

Whoever they appoint now…
You’d hope they have a well thought out plan over drafting/developing talent over the long term, bringing in talent to fill holes on the list in 12 months time and maybe even identifying who the boom recruits to target are when the club is making progress

What you don’t want is someone to sell the farm now for a short term push up the ladder.

No idea where we’re at with any of it

[SaintPav]

The article is very accurate and could only be written by a St Kilda supporter who knows his stuff, which Daniel is.

[st.byron]

Bog standard reporting. Formula: trot out well worn history, asks a question at the start; doesn't really answer it. Cut and paste from any number of beige articles in the archives.

Why is extraordinary that a performance review of a department results in personnel changes when the department is not performing well. Would not the opposite be grounds for criticism.

The take a stick and beat St. Kilda with their history articles seem all so mindless pile on, no meat, no insight. Would have taken 15 minutes to write and a look at Wikipedia to check coaching record. The headline however is right, the devil was in the detail of second half of 22. Writer's aggregate figures are academic 3 from 11, 27% , is the key, plus a bunch of campers unhappy with Brett's current coaching style.

I think it is too hard for any of the herd to analyse that the Saints management have acted, reviewed, implemented recommendations, will not accept a 3 in from 11performance.

Hashing the past is child's play but assessing the future possibilities is too cerebral for the media - what's the last original thought they have come up with, how do they go in the tipping. Parasites not informed analysts.

There are clubs in far worse straits than us with boards at war with themselves, coaches in limbo, and clubs with far worse records compared to resources provided to them since the start of the AFL. But its the one premiership that makes for easy column inches. When we next go top the media pack with be crying so hard, have to get a new story.

Well said. Board to be applauded in my view for making a stand. After nearly a decade of beige on field performance and spin driven, deluded, fluffy admin, we have a massive clean out - McGlynn, Lade, Ratten, Sexton, Finnis - and a board actually making a hard nosed decision. Rather than the "dumpster fire", (as one writer on Zerohanger called the club yesterday) I think it's the most positive, optimistic thing that's happened to our club in a decade. A clear and genuine line in the sand.

I agree to a point.

What remains to be seen is whether or not they’re working towards a good plan or going from one haphazard decision to the next.

In a big believer that strategy both at match level but also more broadly in terms of the club’s interest (financially, marketing, etc) has to have well defined short, medium and long term goals that need to be worked towards.

My concern with the club overall is that with far too much regularity, is we make a plan… don’t really think it through/implement it properly and give up on it before it’s had a reasonable opportunity to work.

Not saying this applies to Ratten as he had a reasonable run but the strategy that he was making all the right moves in July and we believed in his vision 60 days ago but now his reign is untenable is a problem.

Those two concepts really shouldn’t co-exist.

Whoever they appoint now…
You’d hope they have a well thought out plan over drafting/developing talent over the long term, bringing in talent to fill holes on the list in 12 months time and maybe even identifying who the boom recruits to target are when the club is making progress

What you don’t want is someone to sell the farm now for a short term push up the ladder.

No idea where we’re at with any of it

Salient points I agree. Would certainly hope there’s a plan. And with the level of management and football expertise experienced in achieving success in our admin I certainly hope there’s a longer term strategy and not just looking for sugar hits. Basset did talk in his presser about the club being nowhere near a culture capable of supporting sustained excellence, so that did give me hope that there finally is a longer term plan or at least the recognition that success is the outcome of organisational culture, the most pertinent current example being Geelong.

[Scollop]

And if as you say that “there finally is a longer term plan” I am starting to have my doubts that Ross Lyon will be offered the job

[skeptic]

And if as you say that “there finally is a longer term plan” I am starting to have my doubts that Ross Lyon will be offered the job

Unfortunately however… and this is purely my own impression -
Actions lead me to believe that there’s more haphazard reacting going on.

I don’t know if the review is complete but Walsh is in, Lethlean has moved up, Ratten is sacked, comments are being made about our relevance and professionalism…

It all points to me as though a marketing ploy (as you’ve previously suggested) to grab a “proven successful coach with the best qualifications out there”, that will be controversial but tell an incredibly interesting story has been in acted.

As I have reiterated a few times… not an RL fan but if the market opens up, boring Hayes recruitment, cracks from former players RE our culture, the Clark carry on about work rate…
It feels to me as though a picture is being painted to fill a narrative, hence I reckon RL may be been approached a while ago

[Sanctorum]

The article is very accurate and could only be written by a St Kilda supporter who knows his stuff, which Daniel is.

Thanks for backing me up SaintPav, this article is far more respectful of the club than what many other footy scribes produce - just look at the way Mark Robinson and others have used this as an opportunity to once again sink the boot into the Saints,

What all of these media blokes fail to understand, as well as a lot of supporters, that the Board has finally drawn a line in the sand and are taking drastic action to turn things around, instead of just going with the flow and accepting that mediocre on field performance, sitting around half-way on the ladder, just making up the numbers, is OK. I can't remember a time, certainly not in recent years, when the Board has grasped the nettle and expressed a determination to become successful and made decisions to achieve this. They would have been well aware that they would be copping flak from the media and supporters - my great mate in Gympie reckons the club might lose thousands of members, but I believe that we'll lose a hell of a sight more if the Board sits on its hands and things don't improve soon.

[Lennylegs]

Fairly solid article apart from where he says Nathan Brown was a successful recruit. Yikes.

[Sanctorum]

Well said. Board to be applauded in my view for making a stand. After nearly a decade of beige on field performance and spin driven, deluded, fluffy admin, we have a massive clean out - McGlynn, Lade, Ratten, Sexton, Finnis - and a board actually making a hard nosed decision. Rather than the "dumpster fire", (as one writer on Zerohanger called the club yesterday) I think it's the most positive, optimistic thing that's happened to our club in a decade. A clear and genuine line in the sand.

Hey st.byron - is it true that Danny Sexton has been cut??? Haven't heard that but many on this forum will recall that a few years ago I led a campaign to find out why that man has managed to survive all these years, because in essence he has been there during all of the long years of absolute mediocrity, under a variety of coaches....the last man standing!

[skeptic]

Well said. Board to be applauded in my view for making a stand. After nearly a decade of beige on field performance and spin driven, deluded, fluffy admin, we have a massive clean out - McGlynn, Lade, Ratten, Sexton, Finnis - and a board actually making a hard nosed decision. Rather than the "dumpster fire", (as one writer on Zerohanger called the club yesterday) I think it's the most positive, optimistic thing that's happened to our club in a decade. A clear and genuine line in the sand.

Hey st.byron - is it true that Danny Sexton has been cut??? Haven't heard that but many on this forum will recall that a few years ago I led a campaign to find out why that man has managed to survive all these years, because in essence he has been there during all of the long years of absolute mediocrity, under a variety of coaches....the last man standing!

I can’t say I’ve seen it officially but it’s been roundly reported and accepted as fact across numerous social media platforms including here

No one has called BS

[st.byron]

Well said. Board to be applauded in my view for making a stand. After nearly a decade of beige on field performance and spin driven, deluded, fluffy admin, we have a massive clean out - McGlynn, Lade, Ratten, Sexton, Finnis - and a board actually making a hard nosed decision. Rather than the "dumpster fire", (as one writer on Zerohanger called the club yesterday) I think it's the most positive, optimistic thing that's happened to our club in a decade. A clear and genuine line in the sand.

Hey st.byron - is it true that Danny Sexton has been cut??? Haven't heard that but many on this forum will recall that a few years ago I led a campaign to find out why that man has managed to survive all these years, because in essence he has been there during all of the long years of absolute mediocrity, under a variety of coaches....the last man standing!

What I read was that he had decided to go of his own accord. I think Tony74 also came on here and said that. Whether he was pushed as part of the review or he genuinely did go of his own accord, it’s another long term administrator who was there right through the beige era that is no longer there.