The quandary

[Scollop]

I know this is really out there sort of thinking ...but what about Caminiti becoming a defender

We were interested in Ben King as a defender weren't we?

Why can't we use Max or Caminiti as a defender if necessary when we play teams that have twin towers?

I worry about Howard. He lacks urgency at times and he panics as a defender. You can't just rely on your height and your ability to spoil with a clear running jump.

I think he has strengths but he just needs to reduce the errors and brain fades

[Vortex]

I know this is really out there sort of thinking ...but what about Caminiti becoming a defender

We were interested in Ben King as a defender weren't we?

Why can't we use Max or Caminiti as a defender if necessary when we play teams that have twin towers?

I worry about Howard. He lacks urgency at times and he panics as a defender. You can't just rely on your height and your ability to spoil with a clear running jump.

I think he has strengths but he just needs to reduce the errors and brain fades

Dougals strength is his disposal efficiency especially from field kicking, I think he is currently in the top 3 or so in the comp.

Can make the outlet kicks to spots of the ground most players cant make and he's usually taking this kick type of kick when the opposition forwards are setting up their press so his kicks help get over it to start the run and overlap.

[Killa]

No doubt a loss will change perceptions - as always

But currently we have Billings, King and Coffield on the side lines, all top 10 Draft picks

Then Steele and Membrey, both leaders at the Club

Then others including kids, some of whom are running around in the VFL

One issue is the age demographic, noting the Coach’s references to experienced players and the need for that experience

So who are approaching the twilight of their careers, 30 years of age and over and who is challenging them?

[Saintmike65]

At some stage the youngsters will need a spell, King, Membrey, Steele and Webster are definitely ins.
We’ve needed another tall forward to help Max King, which we now have in Caminiti.
Once King and Membrey come back, Owens and Phillipou can rotate forward and midfield.
Steele replaces Bytel, maybe as soon as this week..Webster will replace Paton.

[skeptic]

Caminati better than King is a bit of a joke surely.

King takes more marks, kicks more goals, gets to more contests, pushes further up the ground. Just as much as Caminati, King has had to deal with kicks being bombed in that don’t favour him the least and having to make a contest out of it.

Caminati maybe had the drop on set shots… but he doesn’t have as many a game to miss.

All of that said… there is a lot to like about Caminati’s attack at the contest and mobility and he has far exceeded any reasonable expectations on him.
To be honest… I wonder if rather than King vs Caminati… is the debate Caminati vs Membrey? Seems a bit more like for like

[Moods]

At some stage the youngsters will need a spell, King, Membrey, Steele and Webster are definitely ins.
We’ve needed another tall forward to help Max King, which we now have in Caminiti.
Once King and Membrey come back, Owens and Phillipou can rotate forward and midfield.
Steele replaces Bytel, maybe as soon as this week..Webster will replace Paton.

Gee I hope you're right about Steele. We need big bodies who are adept at defending who can disrupt the pies running game. Although I shudder to think how anyone comes back after 3 weeks from a broken collarbone.

[Moods]

Caminati better than King is a bit of a joke surely.

King takes more marks, kicks more goals, gets to more contests, pushes further up the ground. Just as much as Caminati, King has had to deal with kicks being bombed in that don’t favour him the least and having to make a contest out of it.

Caminati maybe had the drop on set shots… but he doesn’t have as many a game to miss.

All of that said… there is a lot to like about Caminati’s attack at the contest and mobility and he has far exceeded any reasonable expectations on him.
To be honest… I wonder if rather than King vs Caminati… is the debate Caminati vs Membrey? Seems a bit more like for like

Fair question, but I personally reckon we play all 3 if we can in the fwd line. Membrey playing as a genuine 3rd tall could be anything. Owens and Pou floating fwd.....

[Banger9798]

King for Cordy

The rest is pretty difficult

I guess Steele for Paton (who has been excellent)

Membrey for ? Byrnes?

I don't want to lose either Phillipou or Caminiti from the team, nor Butler...and Higgins is safe, obviously.

Can't see Windhager going out.

The squeeze becomes impossible when
Hayes
Jones
Coffield
Billings
Bytel

all return

[Moods]

King for Cordy

The rest is pretty difficult

I guess Steele for Paton (who has been excellent)

Membrey for ? Byrnes?

I don't want to lose either Phillipou or Caminiti from the team, nor Butler...and Higgins is safe, obviously.

Can't see Windhager going out.

The squeeze becomes impossible when
Hayes
Jones
Coffield
Billings
Bytel

all return

Not for me it doesn't. Every one of them return through the reserves and they get their chance when in good form and the natural order of players getting injured/lose form occurs

[Banger9798]

Even King?

[samuraisaint]

No doubt a loss will change perceptions - as always

But currently we have Billings, King and Coffield on the side lines, all top 10 Draft picks

Then Steele and Membrey, both leaders at the Club

Then others including kids, some of whom are running around in the VFL

One issue is the age demographic, noting the Coach’s references to experienced players and the need for that experience

So who are approaching the twilight of their careers, 30 years of age and over and who is challenging them?

We only have one player who is 30 - Campbell.

[samuraisaint]

King for Cordy

The rest is pretty difficult

I guess Steele for Paton (who has been excellent)

Membrey for ? Byrnes?

I don't want to lose either Phillipou or Caminiti from the team, nor Butler...and Higgins is safe, obviously.

Can't see Windhager going out.

The squeeze becomes impossible when
Hayes
Jones
Coffield
Billings
Bytel

all return

There are four teenagers currently in the team. In a 23 game fixture, and as the season drags into June and July young and inexperienced players might become fatigued, we may lose games when we play the likes of Brisbane in Brisbane, Sydney in Sydney and Melbourne, and form might necessitate team changes.

But looking at the players you have listed, I think there are two or three players in that list who would be doubtful to play this season IMO as they didn't have enough of a preseason and risk of reinjury is too high going by player history.

[Otiman]

Caminiti on 2nd or 3rd defender vs King on 1st defender - would be about even.

[Otiman]

Billings and Coff will struggle to get a game.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Caminiti is wildly overrated. Max is the obvious replacement.

However, Ben King's poor form shows what we mightg expect from Max when he returns and adjusts to the tempo.

[bigcarl]

Caminiti is wildly overrated. Max is the obvious replacement.

However, Ben King's poor form shows what we mightg expect from Max when he returns and adjusts to the tempo.

Indications are that Caminiti can possibly make it as an AFL key forward … but yes, there’s a way to go. It’s about what you’d expect from a 19-year-old who has played four games.

I don’t think you necessarily replace him with Max. I think we need two genuine key forwards. Very important to have an alternative marking target to King.

[Ghost Like]

I think King for Cordy is the obvious one.

A rest for RoMa can come via Battle / Owens with King doing the F50.

Steele in for Paton, I'm a Paton fan but he's currently #21 or #22 of our current 22.

The rest can fight their asses off in the Ressies for the sub spot and be ready to come in and play their roles should (when) injuries strike.

Harsh for Members but he'll be in good company with Billings, Coffield, Webster, Jones, Paton and Hayes.

I suspect natural attrition to ease the squeeze. Plus, regardless of the start, 2023 is still about the new coaching set up and getting experience into some extremely promising kids.

[Teflon]

It's a really interesting question, is Caminiti a better tall key forward than Max King??

Based on the 4 game sample so far you would have to answer in the affirmative, he appears to have a lot more confidence than Max, takes strong grabs and has a reliable action kicking for goal.

When King becomes available I would prefer to retain Caminiti as his forward partner and maybe switch Tim Membrey to a defensive role.

King and Caminiti will be like having Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay, Hawkins and Cameron, Lynch and Riewoldt......all strong marking tall key forward duos.

In recent posts I have lamented the performance of Dougal Howard at full-back, and bugger me dead, last night in the last quarter the Suns kicked two goals that were directly attributable to bad errors by Howard - the first was a direct kick that landed straight into the arms of a Suns player, the second a 'golden punch' in a marking contest that had the same result. Do this against the top teams and that will cost games.....

Put Membrey into Howard's place and the Saints have a very experienced and strong marking 'small who plays tall' player to team up in defence with Wilkie and Battle. He's been there before when the team needed extra marking power down back and did really well.

Up there for dumbest post of the year
Caminiti better than King
Membrey replaces 200cm Howard - who had 9 interceptions with Wilkie 11….
Geezus this site never gets old…

[Otiman]

It's pretty clear whatever happens the changes won't be "like for like".

[Teflon]

Membrey shouldn’t be a walk up after 5 weeks sorry…has to push Caminiti or Pou out imo
Stick with kids until they tire or Membrey stars form wise

[meher baba]

It's pretty clear whatever happens the changes won't be "like for like".

I think they will be like for like as much as possible.

We know that, for Lyon, structure comes first and the need somehow to fit players somewhere into a lineup comes a very distant second. Ask Max Hudghton.

I think the most likely scenario is King for Caminiti, Steele for Byrnes and Membrey for Philippou. Cordy stays as backup ruckman. And Webster for Paton.

Billings, Jones, Coffitld and others will have to press their claims at training and at Sandy.

But of course there will br injuries, and possibly losses of form, so reality will be different.

Dream on about forwards being used to replace Howard or Owens playing further back (why on earth would anyone want to do that?)

[meher baba]

Membrey shouldn’t be a walk up after 5 weeks sorry…has to push Caminiti or Pou out imo
Stick with kids until they tire or Membrey stars form wise

You might feel differently about Membrey if we lose our next 3 games, which is quite conceivable.

I reckon Max won’t be back until after the bye, so Caminit is safe for a fair while. Phillipou has been ok but not outstanding in the last two games. If Membrey were fully fit right now, he’d be very handy to have against a tough team like the Pies.

[Vortex]

It's pretty clear whatever happens the changes won't be "like for like".

I think they will be like for like as much as possible.

We know that, for Lyon, structure comes first and the need somehow to fit players somewhere into a lineup comes a very distant second. Ask Max Hudghton.

I think the most likely scenario is King for Caminiti, Steele for Byrnes and Membrey for Philippou. Cordy stays as backup ruckman. And Webster for Paton.

Billings, Jones, Coffitld and others will have to press their claims at training and at Sandy.

But of course there will br injuries, and possibly losses of form, so reality will be different.

Dream on about forwards being used to replace Howard or Owens playing further back (why on earth would anyone want to do that?)

The other reason it will be like for like is one of Lyon's coaching philosophies, you play the way you train, so I don't think we'd see forwards replacing defenders anytime soon.

Having said that if we see Members training with the defenders over the next few weeks then Howard should be concerned.

But my guess is if Caminiti is still earning his place, then Lyon might go for King as No.1 banana, Members No. 2 and Carminati as the 3rd.

But this assumes Lyon wants to copy a current trend of 3 talls in the forward line.

If he does then I'd be saying players like Byrnes, Higgo and Buttler are the ones who have the most competition when players start coming off the injury list.

Hayes then becomes the player who will be competing with Cordy for the ruck relief and strongman spare parts player.

[bobmurray]

We have Members, king and Steele to return
Who will be the poor buggers that have to step aside?



Our depth is real my friends

I hope the injured players have to come back via Sandy, if they make too many changes it might affect the way we are playing.

I hope Max plays better than Ben when he returns, Ben is shite at the moment, the Suns were a better team with Chol at Full Forward.

[nobhead]

You could easily have all 3 (memberey,king ,caminiti)as marking fwds with gresh ,butler,higgins as your smalls.owens and pou as midfield rotatations.leaving byrnes and paton a bit vulnerable imo.all subject to form and injuries of course.