It is a DISGRACE!!

[kaos theory]

On the last round of 2003 we had come off a string of impressive victories to play the cats. Hype was building around our club. The cats felt they were a good young team, and were p1ssed off that we got all the attention. They beat us in that game, but it began a mini-rivalry over the next 3 yrs to see who was the best vic club....

From the start of 2004 and for the next 3 yrs, we were regarded as the glamour vic team, better talent than geelong, and most likely to win a flag first........So here we are in 2007, they won the flag by a record margin, we didn't even make a gf, and finished 9th this yr.

This is a disgrace! A failure by our club to harness and leverage the obvious advanages we had. A tale of mis-management from the top of our club all the way down.

The excuses are injuries, but that is BS! Its poor football department structures & management, its sloppy processes, its clashes of egos and distractions that caused us to fail.

We made profits...big fraking deal! We squandered our opportunities, that's what we did!

Seeing the cats finally win the flag is the last straw!....I have now finally cast my vote SFF....

Some may think we have had a 'successful' 3 yrs, with finals and profits...But no, we have failed to take advantage of our opportunities. Football is a very ruthless business, we may not get an oppotunity to collect the talent we have now for a long time.....I do not want to waste another yr with the current administration.

[chook23]

The problem with us is that in 2004 we had lopsided list

the young guns were just too young to go with the established (game and match hard players)....nearly but were not totally ready

when our young guns matured our established players became vets (or past their prime)

THIS YEAR Geelong young guns have matured and their established still in their peak.

Only one 30 or over

but a heap 24 - 28 years mature hard bodies.........

READY

timing was as much to do with it


I probably have not explained to well

[barks4eva]

I would like to apologise to Grant Thomas,

after watching Geelong win the Grand Final today by 119 points, I can now see how much value players of the calibre of Barry Brooks who GT and his boy wonder bundy gave up pick 6 and 31 for, Mark McGough, Brent Guerra, Cain Ackland etc...etc... are

It's easy to see how these types of players would easily slot into Geelongs benchmark team and that any criticism of Thomas and his boy wonder bundy for poor recruiting by giving up three first round, three second round and two third round selections is unfounded

Sure Selwood is good but he's no Mark McGough, which is probably why Thomas whose decision it was to recruit McGough, gave away yet another choice in the national draft

I'm still a bit mystified as to how we couldn't manage to hang on to some of these gun players and actually recieved nothing in return for them but obviously players such as Brooks, McGough, Ackland, Guerra have what it takes and would walk straight into a full strength Geelong team

As good as Geelong now are, it's a bit scary as to how good they might be if they'd managed to snare even a couple of these guys, like Ackland and McGough

It's easy to understand why we gave up two picks for Brooks, because quite obviously a player of his ability doesn't come around that often and pick 6 in the draft is nowhere near enough, so it's very understandable why we had to throw in a second rounder pick 31 as well to sweeten the deal

Oh well, going forward I suppose we just have to improve our mental environment, make sure our belief cloud is high, get better at the things we just need to get better at , have zero tolerance for mediocrity and it goes without saying, recruit some more stellar players of the likes of McGough, Ackland, Guerra, Brooks etc... before clubs like Geelong snap them up

[saintspremiers]

So are you backing SFF, or are you so still totally obssesed with GT that you just can't see the light through the trees?

[joffaboy]

So are you backing SFF, or are you so still totally obssesed with GT that you just can't see the light through the trees?

Football dept made the above choices not the board.

Wouldn't have mattered how much money we had with the way the list was run down by that former coach.

Heres hoping Rossy can repair the damage after only a season or two of going backwards.

I back B4E 100% on this issue. Nothing to do with the board, except they should have sacked Thomas in 05 instead of 06.

[saintspremiers]

So are you backing SFF, or are you so still totally obssesed with GT that you just can't see the light through the trees?

Football dept made the above choices not the board.

Wouldn't have mattered how much money we had with the way the list was run down by that former coach.

Heres hoping Rossy can repair the damage after only a season or two of going backwards.

I back B4E 100% on this issue. Nothing to do with the board, except they should have sacked Thomas in 05 instead of 06.

Yes to a point....but isn't it the board who appoint the footy department and approve it's structure to a certain extent??

We all know it was a GT one man band, which was crazy....but that did have the blessing of the board for way too long....

[Saints Premiers 2008]

I would like to apologise to Grant Thomas,

after watching Geelong win the Grand Final today by 119 points, I can now see how much value players of the calibre of Barry Brooks who GT and his boy wonder bundy gave up pick 6 and 31 for, Mark McGough, Brent Guerra, Cain Ackland etc...etc... are

It's easy to see how these types of players would easily slot into Geelongs benchmark team and that any criticism of Thomas and his boy wonder bundy for poor recruiting by giving up three first round, three second round and two third round selections is unfounded

Sure Selwood is good but he's no Mark McGough, which is probably why Thomas whose decision it was to recruit McGough, gave away yet another choice in the national draft

I'm still a bit mystified as to how we couldn't manage to hang on to some of these gun players and actually recieved nothing in return for them but obviously players such as Brooks, McGough, Ackland, Guerra have what it takes and would walk straight into a full strength Geelong team

As good as Geelong now are, it's a bit scary as to how good they might be if they'd managed to snare even a couple of these guys, like Ackland and McGough

It's easy to understand why we gave up two picks for Brooks, because quite obviously a player of his ability doesn't come around that often and pick 6 in the draft is nowhere near enough, so it's very understandable why we had to throw in a second rounder pick 31 as well to sweeten the deal

Oh well, going forward I suppose we just have to improve our mental environment, make sure our belief cloud is high, get better at the things we just need to get better at , have zero tolerance for mediocrity and it goes without saying, recruit some more stellar players of the likes of McGough, Ackland, Guerra, Brooks etc... before clubs like Geelong snap them up

yeh

i think we f***ed up a bit

i think its time to look to the future and to acknowledge that we have the core of a premiership team

the 2nd tier needs to be developed

[dcstkfc]

How did it get from the rivalry of 04-06 to this? We WERE better than them. Remember the 2004 Wizard Cup Grand Final? Remember as litte as 13 months ago at the Dome. What happened? I am sick to the guts and at a loss for words.

I want them Round 1 next year. I want us to stamp our mark on this comp!

Bloody Oath.

I want a flag!

[mischa]

So are you backing SFF, or are you so still totally obssesed with GT that you just can't see the light through the trees?

Football dept made the above choices not the board.

Wouldn't have mattered how much money we had with the way the list was run down by that former coach.

Heres hoping Rossy can repair the damage after only a season or two of going backwards.

I back B4E 100% on this issue. Nothing to do with the board, except they should have sacked Thomas in 05 instead of 06.

Yeah. Let's hope we can continue with Gardiner, Clarke, Birss style of recruiting. Can't wait to see what we do on the trade table this year. And we can't even be bothered signing Steven Baker (Hope it's not because he's going out with GT's daughter). But yours is a typical St.kilda supporter attitude-just sack another coach. Didn't your good friend Robert Walls teach you anything
"A football club is only as good as the President who runs it...it's a trickle down effect"

[barks4eva]

So are you backing SFF, or are you so still totally obssesed with GT that you just can't see the light through the trees?

IMHO granting Thomas the role of coach in the first place is ultimately the biggest rod for Butterss back

[Saints Premiers 2008]

How did it get from the rivalry of 04-06 to this? We WERE better than them. Remember the 2004 Wizard Cup Grand Final? Remember as litte as 13 months ago at the Dome. What happened? I am sick to the guts and at a loss for words.

I want them Round 1 next year. I want us to stamp our mark on this comp!

Bloody Oath.

I want a flag!

i would prefer not to play them first up

in a perfect world i would want them a month in or two with both sides going well to see where we are really at

our kpp's beat theirs...

our flankers dont

[saintspremiers]

So are you backing SFF, or are you so still totally obssesed with GT that you just can't see the light through the trees?

Football dept made the above choices not the board.

Wouldn't have mattered how much money we had with the way the list was run down by that former coach.

Heres hoping Rossy can repair the damage after only a season or two of going backwards.

I back B4E 100% on this issue. Nothing to do with the board, except they should have sacked Thomas in 05 instead of 06.

Yeah. Let's hope we can continue with Gardiner, Clarke, Birss style of recruiting. Can't wait to see what we do on the trade table this year. And we can't even be bothered signing Steven Baker (Hope it's not because he's going out with GT's daughter). But yours is a typical St.kilda supporter attitude-just sack another coach. Didn't your good friend Robert Walls teach you anything
"A football club is only as good as the President who runs it...it's a trickle down effect"

hang on a minute GT lover.

Rossy was appointed very late, right at the start of the trade period....he hardly had a chance to find where Moorabbin was before getting involved with trading.

He got Clarke because your lover didn't rate ruckmen AT ALL....it was a deseperate stop gap measure by RL.....Gardy is hopefully more long term and if he comes good next season could be our best ruckman since Spider, or even better than Spider.

Yes, Birss was a dodgy get, but he aint any worse than Goofy is he???

Let's see how RL goes in the trade/draft period this year in conjunction with his team before hanging him.

And has Baker been delisted?? Sorry I thought he was still a Saint with a new contract pending agreement from both parties....

Sorry if I'm upsetting your long lost love affair.

[kaos theory]

Football dept made the above choices not the board.

Wouldn't have mattered how much money we had with the way the list was run down by that former coach.

Heres hoping Rossy can repair the damage after only a season or two of going backwards.

I back B4E 100% on this issue. Nothing to do with the board, except they should have sacked Thomas in 05 instead of 06

Excuse me JB, but it has EVERYTHING to do with the board. I know of no other environment where the guy's ultimately in charge are not held responsible for the failings of the organization.

RB and his small business minded approaches & sloppy processes led to the probelms encountered with GT, and HE & his board should have delt with it sooner. To say that in 2008 we will try to improve spending and operational structure in the footy department is rediculous. We may have wasted our best chances

[Shaggy]

The problem with us is that in 2004 we had lopsided list

the young guns were just too young to go with the established (game and match hard players)....nearly but were not totally ready

when our young guns matured our established players became vets (or past their prime)

THIS YEAR Geelong young guns have matured and their established still in their peak.

Only one 30 or over

but a heap 24 - 28 years mature hard bodies.........

READY

timing was as much to do with it


I probably have not explained to well

I agree 100% with you. Our list should similarly peak around 2009 in terms of bulk of players being in their prime and physically ready.

[barks4eva]

Yes, Birss was a dodgy get, but he aint any worse than Goofy is he???

Let's see how RL goes in the trade/draft period this year in conjunction with his team before hanging him.

In fairness to Ross Lyon, Birss was drafted before Lyon was appointed

having said that, Lyon continually selected Birss, when it's obvious to anyone that Birss is a total waste of time and space and his best work would be that of impersonating an ostrich

with players or should I say liabilities such as Birss, Blake etc...etc... we are never going to challenge for a premiership

Geelong do not have one weak player in their best 22 and had half a dozen not playing who would walk into any other AFL team

RECRUITING, RECRUITING, RECRUITING it's all about RECRUITING

We have sucked big time since we were gifted with AFL draft selections for finishing 16th and 15th for years on end

Geelong on the other hand have consistently drafted well and have not been gifted easy no brainers like we recieved and have finished at worst mid table for a decade, true that they have benefitted from the father/son rule, but they've also not traded away draft selections on recycled players except for Ottens and while Ottens is no Barry Brooks ( who one can easily undertand why Thomas gave up not just pick 6 but threw in pick 31 to clinch the deal), he still goes ok

but to Mischa who I would imagine has a Grant Thomas inflatable that he blows a few times a week, Ross Lyon was coach for three minutes when he drafted Clarke and Gardiner, Thomas was coach for three years when he alone made the decision to draft McGough


I'll judge Lyon on what he does from this point on, now that he's had 12 months to assess the list and on how to best clean up the abysmal mess that he inherited from the sheer buffoonery of his predecessor

[chook23]

Barks

They may not have been gifted no 1 picks

but gee they did ok under father/son

[barks4eva]

Barks

They may not have been gifted no 1 picks

but gee they did ok under father/son

yeah I know, they cleaned up on them


but they still drafted a tad more wisely than McGough, Ackland, Guerra and picks 6 AND 31 for Brooks etc...etc...

[chook23]

Barks

They may not have been gifted no 1 picks

but gee they did ok under father/son

yeah I know, they cleaned up on them


but they still drafted a tad more wisely than McGough, Ackland, Guerra and picks 6 AND 31 for Brooks etc...etc...

no arguement there

[LaUrEnCe]

ahhhh... i was thinking the exact same thing.. dont remind me
the thing that sucks is that you are right about everything.. Geelong > us.... for now..

[mischa]

but to Mischa who I would imagine has a Grant Thomas inflatable that he blows a few times a week, Ross Lyon was coach for three minutes when he drafted Clarke and Gardiner, Thomas was coach for three years when he alone made the decision to draft McGough

I'm happy knowing that if you were a Geelong supporter you would've been saying exactly the same things about Mark Thompson through the years and trying to disrupt their seasons with your bizarre attention-seeking techniques. You're just nuts! Please (for your own sake) get professional help.

I'll judge Lyon onwhat he does from this point on

Am quite sure Ross Lyon couldn't give two hoots about any potential judgement you may have of him Self-importance much

hang on a minute GT lover.

He got Clarke because your lover didn't rate ruckmen AT ALL....it was a deseperate stop gap measure by RL.....Gardy is hopefully more long term and if he comes good next season could be our best ruckman since Spider, or even better than Spider.

Let's see how RL goes in the trade/draft period this year in conjunction with his team before hanging him.

And has Baker been delisted?? Sorry I thought he was still a Saint with a new contract pending agreement from both parties....

Can you please provide proof of these allegations or cease and desist? You should write for Disney-you're good at making things up. Must be all the lies you've read. GT has provided many rebuttals to the kind of rubbish you're peddling re: ruckmen. Yes we will give Lyon plenty of time, we could adopt the Thompson, Williams timeline for success what 8, 6 years or more. Or maybe two. We'll see. As far as I know Baker has not re-signed yet. You say this lover thing like it's a bad thing? Hope you ain't homophobic s/p

[barks4eva]

I'll judge Lyon onwhat he does from this point on

Am quite sure Ross Lyon couldn't give two hoots about any potential judgement you may have of him Self-importance much

Excuse me GT doll worshipper, but last time I checked, this was a forum where people offered their opinions

IMHO, I will reserve personal judgement, not that Lyon would give two hoots, you're quite correct on how he trades from this point on and not what happened during last years trade period

Also last time I checked your hero/messiah was actually suing the football club for money, which includes $167,000 for holiday pay after he'd already signed a stat dec stating he'd already been paid all holiday pay and annual leave entitlements owed to him

and this after he's already been paid over 2.5 million dollars by the club with him recieving $500,000 straight up from the get go without any previous AFL coaching experience

excuse me but I would have thought that he'd done quite well already

and not forgetting that this scum sucking parasite also said that he'd never do anything to hurt the club

put that in your inflatable and blow it

[lefty]

Hold on Barks....

We got Mark McGough because we werent going to get anyone else. In my opinion he would of been handy this year if we could win the ball out of the middle when Ball was struggling along with Lenny. TS40 would of been good in the backline this year too when we struggled without key defenders (Goddard etc).

Brent Guerra & Cain Ackland we VERY important and GOOD in their 2004 season. If you think they were s*** in 2004, then you have no idea. Unfortunately they could not keep up their performance and over time deteriorated and thats why their no longer at the club.

Think before you post nonsense, stop blaming GT for every single thing. Get over yourself ffs. Sure your entitled to your opinion, but you make a thread blaming GT every week or so, basically to the point where it becomes pointless.

M.Clarke was a waste of time by RL this year too, so lets flame him as well! Lets blame him for getting Gardiner and not playing one game.

As for the club owing money to our former coach, if its true, then he has every right, whether its 1c or $1 billion dollars. Simple as that, stop whinging about it. The current board itself is dodgy, Rod states he will step aside if there's enough votes, blah blah blah, then goes and takes it to court so these votes dont count, trying to avoid getting the boot. Meh, whatever.

[maverick]

Where are the Cats better than us now, forget why.

1. Rucks, they have one AA ruckman, King who was and Blake who is light years better than anyone we have been throwing in there.

2. Defence. They are a great unit, all work well together and have good pace, awareness and disposal. They were missing the AA CHB today as well. We have a potentially great defence in S Fisher, Gram, Max, Goose and a couple of others, but lack leadership I reckon.

3. Their injury management is first class, they complained they were unfit last year, made some significant changes and now look at them. Let's see how we go next year on this front.

4. They have a much greater spread of mids than us, barring Ablett and Bartel they are even and very deep. We are stronger at the top end but way too shallow.


How can we turn it round?

The following need big pre seasons and either take the next step or start fulfilling their potential:

X
Armitage
Raph
Maguire
Kosi
Gwilt
Watts

And if
Gardiner can get on the park
Max can play a full year
Ball can get back to 05 fitness

it might be all we need..............

[Shaggy]

By my count only Stokes, Ottens, Nathan Ablett and Selwood played today who came from drafts/trades 2003 onwards.

Recruitment from 2003 onwards is not the reason why Geelong won the premiership and it is not the reason why we don’t have one (but that is still no excuse for only spending $214,000 on recruitment to save a $1 million profit because it will obviously hurt us over time).

Both the Saints and Cats Boards wanted change after disappointing 2006 seasons. So after detailed football department reviews the Cats added substantial resources and personnel to their football department. We on the other hand add Kenny (lol) and swapped the rest.

And now it is time for members to swap the Board and appoint those who are interested to implement real improvements even if it costs.

As Kaos say the buck stops at the top and the Board has not implemented best practices for the football department despite all the BS about it. The Cats did (and full credit to their Board for not just talking about change but actually delivering) and they are raving about it tonight.

[St Fidelius]

Hold on Barks....

We got Mark McGough because we werent going to get anyone else. In my opinion he would of been handy this year if we could win the ball out of the middle when Ball was struggling along with Lenny. TS40 would of been good in the backline this year too when we struggled without key defenders (Goddard etc).

Brent Guerra & Cain Ackland we VERY important and GOOD in their 2004 season. If you think they were s*** in 2004, then you have no idea. Unfortunately they could not keep up their performance and over time deteriorated and thats why their no longer at the club.

Think before you post nonsense, stop blaming GT for every single thing. Get over yourself ffs. Sure your entitled to your opinion, but you make a thread blaming GT every week or so, basically to the point where it becomes pointless.

M.Clarke was a waste of time by RL this year too, so lets flame him as well! Lets blame him for getting Gardiner and not playing one game.

As for the club owing money to our former coach, if its true, then he has every right, whether its 1c or $1 billion dollars. Simple as that, stop whinging about it. The current board itself is dodgy, Rod states he will step aside if there's enough votes, blah blah blah, then goes and takes it to court so these votes dont count, trying to avoid getting the boot. Meh, whatever.

oh yeah, and lets not forget the flogging GT got for not giving Rix a go

Gee someone has gone quiet there...

and also the response that the selection of Lyon was a "conspiracy"



and lets not forget the biggest supporter of drafting Watts as our number 1 draft pick...

I guess we will have to blame someone don't we...

Most on here at the start of the year thought that Watts would not be the next full forward after G Train retired and one wonders why???

Yep we gave up our first round selection and some on here ranted and raved for him....

I just wonder who was the ring leader in this rant ....

any guesses???

the same one that ranted about Rix and demanded "facts"???

any guesses??

Come on now, lets all have the benefit of hindsight shall we