Am I the only one who feels for Ben Cousins?

[saint66au]

I don't think you can blame the board for what Cousins has done. They arn't there to babysit their own players, they have to give them a certain degree of trust and hope it is returned by the player.

It happened when the players where on holidays, even the president was in Italy. WC have been more than fair in giving Cousins every opportunity to get himself right, I would say they would like to see this happen more than anyone, however Cousins has chosen to abuse their trust.

THis aint Robert Harvey we are talking bout here, its Ben Cousins, serial party boy and drug addict ( and I mean that in a literal and not derogatory way)

If the consequences are heavy fines or even draft pick losses, Id reckon babysitting is a very viable option

[st.byron]

All this 'gnashing of teeth', 'wringing of hands' and shedding 'crocodile tears' by the WCE hierarchy is making me feel billious.

The facts are that they were aware of the drug problems surrounding their players in general, and Cousins in particular, and chose to do little if anything about it in case it impinged on their ability to win the Premiershp.
As long as these drug affected players were performing on match day WCE were more than happy to 'turn a blind eye' to their activities.

Instead of being lauded for their actions by the AFL and the football industry they should, IMHO, be roundly castigated and severely penalised for allowing this travesty to continue on.

They chose to deliberately risk the safety of their employees (their players) by not stepping in and taking action when they were told of the problems. Their inaction has quite possibly jeopardised Cousin's ability to beat his problem. Unfortunately we will never be in the postion to truly know if it did/has and WCE will contnue to play the role of the poor sympathetic employer who did everything they could to assist poor Ben.

Yep, I agree. They've been happy to turn a blind eye whilst those players were going to bring them a flag. They paid lip service to the drug related issues that came up before, and there have been numerous incidents that haven't been in the media, only acting when the public evidence left them with no alternative. Even this year when Kerr's taped phone conversation about Ketamine came out, they did nothing. Oh no, hang on, Whoosha assured us that Daniel wasn't doing it any more.
And now they've been caught out again, as Saint 66 said WCE claimed not to know that Cousins was in the country, they want to play the role of hard but fair employer. Bit ferkin' late for that. They're a disgrace and should cop a solid punishment from the AFL. Not bloody likely though.

[CURLY]

Saintmik if your there back me up for how our club babysat one of our stars for over 200 games.

Judging your location, I have a fair idea who you are referring to, and it is not a situation where our club came up smelling of roses.

Let it go, mate.

But didnt walk away.

Credit to individuals involved, but not the club as an entity.

All part of being in a club, past players, loyal supporters and parents all rally to help members of a club.

[Dis Believer]

I think there are several key fundamentals being overlooked throughout all of this fairly impassioned discourse.

1 - The WCE are an employer. After any of you had been sacked by your employer for REPEATED drug and alchohol incidents, would you seriously expect your former employer to take care of your rehab? Didn't think so, and if the WCE didn't risk such adverse publicity, nor would they.

2 - All of those espousing empathy for poor Ben because he is a victim and an addict, would you feel the same towards the junkie that had robbed your home to support their addiction? As you stood feeling violated and surveying the scenery as you reailsed some of your more valued possessions were now flowing up someone's arm would you thoughts be so charitable?

3 - For what it's worth, someone mentioned that they believe Cousin's is not an addict, that he just likes to party hard and doesn't give a crap, I think that is close to the mark. I think addiction looms large in his life, but he simply respects no-one and nothing at this point. Reports in the press were that he and Chick spent the weekend doing a cocktail of substances in the company of some strippers. For that, all the bleeding hearts believe he should have my sympathy, spare me.

[st.byron]

in part the whole head in the sand issue from the AFL, its ridiculous testing policies etc show they aren't interested in dealing with the problem.

if as alleged cousins has had a problem for many months, as much as 18 months by some estimates, WHY HAS IT NOT BEEN DETECTED ONCE?

jono hay indicated a culture of drugs and yet the AFL castigated him, rather than attempting to resolve the issue.

Dan, a mate of mine works part time for the drug testing agency. He's been in the Eagles change rooms and around the WAIS heaps of times collecting samples. The AFL has to pay the testing agency per test. There are over 700 listed players, including rookies, across 16 clubs. The season just gone the AFL purchased 450 tests. Not even one per player per year. It's a joke. They're not serious. Same person told me that Craig Mottram was tested 6 times in 10 days leading up to the recent World Athletics Champs in Osaka.
Why, after finishing high up in this year's Brownlow count, did Brent Harvey say he hadn't been tested for three years? Coz it's a farce, they're not fair dinkum. Heads firmly in the sand on this issue.

[Dan Warna]

in part the whole head in the sand issue from the AFL, its ridiculous testing policies etc show they aren't interested in dealing with the problem.

if as alleged cousins has had a problem for many months, as much as 18 months by some estimates, WHY HAS IT NOT BEEN DETECTED ONCE?

jono hay indicated a culture of drugs and yet the AFL castigated him, rather than attempting to resolve the issue.

Dan, a mate of mine works part time for the drug testing agency. He's been in the Eagles change rooms and around the WAIS heaps of times collecting samples. The AFL has to pay the testing agency per test. There are over 700 listed players, including rookies, across 16 clubs. The season just gone the AFL purchased 450 tests. Not even one per player per year. It's a joke. They're not serious. Same person told me that Craig Mottram was tested 6 times in 10 days leading up to the recent World Athletics Champs in Osaka.
Why, after finishing high up in this year's Brownlow count, did Brent Harvey say he hadn't been tested for three years? Coz it's a farce, they're not fair dinkum. Heads firmly in the sand on this issue.

yep although i think the testing is inreased to a 1000 tests for the season 2008, that means you can expect to be tested on average twice a year...in 08

[stinger]

[

BTW, what going on with his ex-girlfriend and his dad? Hand in hand to the cop-shop? Seems a little inappropriate to me.

well...it is western australia.......bit like tassie actually...isolation leads to some strange practices........

[st.byron]

I think there are several key fundamentals being overlooked throughout all of this fairly impassioned discourse.

1 - The WCE are an employer. After any of you had been sacked by your employer for REPEATED drug and alchohol incidents, would you seriously expect your former employer to take care of your rehab? Didn't think so, and if the WCE didn't risk such adverse publicity, nor would they.

2 - All of those espousing empathy for poor Ben because he is a victim and an addict, would you feel the same towards the junkie that had robbed your home to support their addiction? As you stood feeling violated and surveying the scenery as you reailsed some of your more valued possessions were now flowing up someone's arm would you thoughts be so charitable?

3 - For what it's worth, someone mentioned that they believe Cousin's is not an addict, that he just likes to party hard and doesn't give a crap, I think that is close to the mark. I think addiction looms large in his life, but he simply respects no-one and nothing at this point. Reports in the press were that he and Chick spent the weekend doing a cocktail of substances in the company of some strippers. For that, all the bleeding hearts believe he should have my sympathy, spare me.

Interesting comments TB. No, I wouldn't expect my employer to take care of my rehab, fair call. But the WCE have known for years about this issue within their club and done SFA about it. Whilst making all the right noises about supporting a drug free culture, they've allowed the opposite to fester under their own banner. Now it's turned around and bitten them on the bum, they should be held accountable for their negligence. As as employer, they have a duty of care to create a healthy workplace culture and thev've neglected that in the interests of winning a flag. How do we know that player performances haven't been enhanced by drugs. We don't.

Re the sympathy for his addictiveness, I feel sympathy for anyone in the grip of an addiction, it's a horrible place to be, whether your wearing a Rolex or sleeping under a bridge. No, it doesn't excuse a crime or being an arrogant prick and in the instance you've described, initially I wanted to catch the prick and bash his head against a wall. No sympathy at all. That's mellowed a bit over time.

Yep, he's a selfish little prick, agree. Maybe he really does have no respect for anyone else. If he is however in the grip a serious substance abuse problem, the behaviour you've outlined would pretty much fit. The only thing that matters is gratification in the moment, it overrides all other considerations and is out of control. Whatever they're doing, I feel sympathy for anyone in that state, coz it's a terrible place to be.

[Barney2]

shame to be losing a player of his quality. His is human after all. blod*dy shame, that's all I can say. Wonderful player. He has 38 touches on his return. Oh, well, he needs to get himself right now I suppose. Do you think a club would pick him up if the AFL didnt deregister him and he was ready to go again, assuming he was right after rehab again from doctors reports?

[F_Q_F]

I don't think you can blame the board for what Cousins has done. They arn't there to babysit their own players, they have to give them a certain degree of trust and hope it is returned by the player.

It happened when the players where on holidays, even the president was in Italy. WC have been more than fair in giving Cousins every opportunity to get himself right, I would say they would like to see this happen more than anyone, however Cousins has chosen to abuse their trust.

THis aint Robert Harvey we are talking bout here, its Ben Cousins, serial party boy and drug addict ( and I mean that in a literal and not derogatory way)

If the consequences are heavy fines or even draft pick losses, Id reckon babysitting is a very viable option

Yeah but the guy is 29 years old, he would know what the implications of breaking his contract with the Eagles would be. Having agreed to the initial terms of his contract WC would have thought Cousins understood that for him to continue playing football he would have to stay out of trouble.

This incident seemed out of the blue, from all reports he was scheduled to attend rehab, and WC probably thought that babysitting him wasnt necessary.

[Mr Magic]

I don't think you can blame the board for what Cousins has done. They arn't there to babysit their own players, they have to give them a certain degree of trust and hope it is returned by the player.

It happened when the players where on holidays, even the president was in Italy. WC have been more than fair in giving Cousins every opportunity to get himself right, I would say they would like to see this happen more than anyone, however Cousins has chosen to abuse their trust.

THis aint Robert Harvey we are talking bout here, its Ben Cousins, serial party boy and drug addict ( and I mean that in a literal and not derogatory way)

If the consequences are heavy fines or even draft pick losses, Id reckon babysitting is a very viable option

Yeah but the guy is 29 years old, he would know what the implications of breaking his contract with the Eagles would be. Having agreed to the initial terms of his contract WC would have thought Cousins understood that for him to continue playing football he would have to stay out of trouble.

This incident seemed out of the blue, from all reports he was scheduled to attend rehab, and WC probably thought that babysitting him wasnt necessary.

F_Q_F, I would have thought that
given this is the off-season when under the AFL Drugs Policy no testing can be done on players,
and given that Cousins' mate Mainwaring died a week ago from a heart attack apparently caused in part by a coacktail of substances,
and given the penalties hanging over their heads for any furthe breaches,

that the WCE would certainly have been keeping a closer watch on Cousins than they apparently have been.

It seems to have been quite widely known in Perth that Cousins and Xhick have been 'partying hard' for a number of days prior to them being taken into custody on Tuesday.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I don't think you can blame the board for what Cousins has done. They arn't there to babysit their own players, they have to give them a certain degree of trust and hope it is returned by the player.

It happened when the players where on holidays, even the president was in Italy. WC have been more than fair in giving Cousins every opportunity to get himself right, I would say they would like to see this happen more than anyone, however Cousins has chosen to abuse their trust.

THis aint Robert Harvey we are talking bout here, its Ben Cousins, serial party boy and drug addict ( and I mean that in a literal and not derogatory way)

If the consequences are heavy fines or even draft pick losses, Id reckon babysitting is a very viable option

As far as the shifting of blame goes, I really don't know that I think WCE had a duty of care or anything of the sort towards Cousins, they're a footy club, not big brother... however, I do think that by not paying attention, they've been negligent in their duty to their members and supporters.

Even if they don't get draft picks or premiership points taken (and through swift action, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they didn't), this was forseeable for all the same reasons people are feeling sympathy towards the situation, and at the end of the day, the WCE have lost a fantastic player that will be near impossible to replace, and in the short term, minus both Judd AND Cousins, aren't nearly the threat they were just 2 weeks ago.

While they may not have any personal responsibility, assuiming Cousins did fall off the rails after Mainwaring's death, WCE should have done more to ensure that didn't happen, and they'd be a much better team today if they had succeeded in doing so.

[Sxc_Sainter]

I feel for Ben Cousins. Although he mainly has himself to blame for the unfortunate situation he's in at the moment, it still doesn't make it right for him to be continuously slagged off.

There's no doubt that Ben is arrogant and cares very much for himself but it is evident that he has a serious problem with substance abuse. Despite the ugly qualities in him, he's still just a person and just like everyone else, he needs support, not for people who don't even know him to constantly bag him. Yes, he has support from his family and friends, who have also been put through hell because of him, but do you think it helps being a big name football player, who listens to the radio, watches the news and reads the paper about how stupid he is and how arrogant he is? I'm sure that even if he doesn't admit it, he'd know all that deep down.

Most people don't feel sorry for him because he has this great life and chooses to waste it, whereas there's other people who actually struggle in life and would die to be in his position. But think about it, he was drafted in 1995 (at the age of 16), where most boys would still be at school partying and figuring out who they were and what they wanted in life. Most would say Ben had the privilege of just an easy life, but do you honestly think it's easy being 16 and entering an industry full of spotlight and peer pressure? Of course he was going to get caught up with bad people at SOME stage in his career, but it was always going to be a question of whether or not he was mentally strong enough to resist all that. Obviously he wasn't mentally strong enough. It's just sad that such a great player ended his career like that.

He obviously made a terrible choice and his decisions have had serious consequences, but how many people can say that they haven't made stupid mistakes in the past? Of course we all have. And when we do make those mistakes, we already know it, we don't need other people constantly in our faces telling us what a terrible person we are. It just doesn't help at all. Even though Ben may not be a model citizen, I really hope he gets his life back on track and does something good with it.

[Oh When the Saints]

I don't really care.


I'd rather spend five pages debating how we can find the two thousand homeless people on Melbourne's streets each night a place to sleep.

[Riewoldting]

Yes, he has support from his family and friends, who have also been put through hell because of him, but do you think it helps being a big name football player, who listens to the radio, watches the news and reads the paper about how stupid he is and how arrogant he is?

Either:

a. these were the same radio and television broadcasters and newspapers broadcasting and writing about how wonderful he was before his fall from grace - in which case, he needs to take the good with the bad;

or

b. he paid no attention the media then, and he pays no attention to the media now - in which case the point is moot.

In any case, internet communications fall into none of the three categories, so there is a lot of "slagging off" via that medium. Difficult to make out an argument that it's not right because it might not help his cause.

[stinger]

I don't really care.


I'd rather spend five pages debating how we can find the two thousand homeless people on Melbourne's streets each night a place to sleep.

can't disagree with that....

[claystreet]

I don't really care.


I'd rather spend five pages debating how we can find the two thousand homeless people on Melbourne's streets each night a place to sleep.

Mate of mine a few years ago did some community service
for finishing a fight he didnt start, but being such a big fella finished with lets say a bit more gusto than required. He earnt himself 6mnths working at the Sacred Heart Mission in St kilda, did him the world of good as far a learning a bit ofcompassion and controlling his tanties he was renowned for. Would be great for alot more people to spend some time with those who really need it will open their eyes to reality.

[danners]

the guys best mate just died

ppl should just leave him alone. he made another mistake. he will now pay for that mistake like he has done so in the past

[HSVKing]

the guys best mate just died

The question on most people's mind is...

How good of a best mate was he???

[Dis Believer]

the guys best mate just died

ppl should just leave him alone. he made another mistake. he will now pay for that mistake like he has done so in the past

And he paid his respects by doing lines and humping strippers.....

Intelligent and interesting response St Byron. I think you've encapsulated the point on which all the debate about his character hinges. The behaviour he demonstrates is symptomatic of addiction - but the question that sparks the debate is, did the party hearty and arrogant, bulletproof attitude come after the adiction or was it pre-existing?

[Ghost Like]

In answer to the OP, obviously 'No', there are other posters out there who share your sympathies. Personally I am not one of them.

Ben is free now to grow a beard, don some leathers and join an OMCG, he can live by their code, ride off into the sunset and be the rebel he so desperately seems to want to be.

He'll find though that getting out of that club will not be as easy as getting out of the Eagles.

[satchmo]

No doubt in my mind that the eagles have let him down, in that they let his earlier discressions go by as if unnoticed.

When cousins (and another player who's name escapes me ) refused to co-operate with a police investigation a couple of years ago, the club should have read the riot act to him. That was the point when they might have made some difference.

[ifonlybarkswashere]

[quote="Sxc_Sainter"]I feel for Ben Cousins. Although he mainly has himself to blame for the unfortunate situation he's in at the moment, it still doesn't make it right for him to be continuously slagged off.
quote]


er.....yes it does

[saintspremiers]

I don't really care.


I'd rather spend five pages debating how we can find the two thousand homeless people on Melbourne's streets each night a place to sleep.

can't disagree with that....[/quote.

But what about the Somalians OWTS???

On a lighter note, I was at a swim centre yesterday with my 3 year old, and glancing at about 5 or 6 kids swimming near us she asked me "Why are they black?" (They were Africans).

[asiu]

OMCG

is that like ....ATM machine?