OK - INSIDERS....what the hell is up with Kosi ??

[iwantmeseats]

He aint training, not even hitting the park, something has to be wrong? Any info?

And WHY do I see in two different training reports that Luke Ball is absolutely flying and seems in great shape, and yet in antoher he is "running like a 50 year old"??? Its VERY frustrating, the two views shouldnt be that different from each other.

These are two players absolutely critical for us to have ANY sort of real impact next year....

[Brian Collis]

Why bother believe any bullsh!t written on here!

Wait and see until the season starts.

Remember StMart or SMart or whatever he calls himself is stroking his ego.

[St.M]

Why is reporting what I actually see 5 meters in front of me 'stroking my ego' explain that.....you are a f*n idiot sometimes......if I want to stroke something, I wouldn't use the internet to write a training report....

sometimes people react poorly when they don't hear what they want to hear....fact is that luke looks in good shape.....but was running with plenty of discomfort (about half the pace of others)...

What is Bulls*it is some of the spin in the paper....esp. regarding Gardiner. not that we ever get some untruthes WRT player injuries at Moorabbin do we

[saintspremiers]

Why is reporting what I actually see 5 meters in front of me 'stroking my ego' explain that.....you are a f*n idiot sometimes......if I want to stroke something, I wouldn't use the internet to write a training report....

sometimes people react poorly when they don't hear what they want to hear....fact is that luke looks in good shape.....but was running with plenty of discomfort (about half the pace of others)...

What is Bulls*it is some of the spin in the paper....esp. regarding Gardiner. not that we ever get some untruthes WRT player injuries at Moorabbin do we

spot on.

Brian Collis - use your other hand if your right hand is sore...OK?

[Brian Collis]

Why is reporting what I actually see 5 meters in front of me 'stroking my ego' explain that.....you are a f*n idiot sometimes......if I want to stroke something, I wouldn't use the internet to write a training report....

sometimes people react poorly when they don't hear what they want to hear....fact is that luke looks in good shape.....but was running with plenty of discomfort (about half the pace of others)...

What is Bulls*it is some of the spin in the paper....esp. regarding Gardiner. not that we ever get some untruthes WRT player injuries at Moorabbin do we

Thanks you've just confirmed what I've written

Also can't accept your reasoning of wasting a draft pick until I can see how Eljay plays.

[Brian Collis]

Why is reporting what I actually see 5 meters in front of me 'stroking my ego' explain that.....you are a f*n idiot sometimes......if I want to stroke something, I wouldn't use the internet to write a training report....

sometimes people react poorly when they don't hear what they want to hear....fact is that luke looks in good shape.....but was running with plenty of discomfort (about half the pace of others)...

What is Bulls*it is some of the spin in the paper....esp. regarding Gardiner. not that we ever get some untruthes WRT player injuries at Moorabbin do we

spot on.

Brian Collis - use your other hand if your right hand is sore...OK?

Are you talking from personal experience?

[St.M]

It's my Opinion......you have yours....

Have you seen Eljay - do you know much about him.....he was obviously a speculative pick...and IMOwill struggle to make an impact...

I had a similar argument with a tool about J.Sweeney (who is far ahead of Eljay)...

[CURLY]

It's my Opinion......you have yours....

Have you seen Eljay - do you know much about him.....he was obviously a speculative pick...and IMOwill struggle to make an impact...

I had a similar argument with a tool about J.Sweeney (who is far ahead of Eljay)...

Its fair to say nearly all picks after maybe 30 are speculative, to write a 17 year old who hasnt finished developing is harsh. Wait a year and he may have been top 20 who knows. As for Sweeney being ahead of Eljay as far as I can see Eljay is on a list while Sweeney is not my moneys with Eljay.

[St.M]

I disagree about that all picks after 30 being speculative...

Was Jarred Allen - an AA U18, and best FF n the TAC Cup a speculative pick at #59.....he may turn out to be no good....but he has the pedigree...

Sweeney from Tyabb
Gwilt from Noble Parke
Raymond From Sacred Heart College
Van Reehnan from Scoresby

are all high risk speculative picks, as they have not came through an elite prgram - it does not mean they cannot make it....but they have less foundation...basically they are a punt...

My worry about Eljay is his frame......he is as skinny as raymond - but shorter, doesn't seem all that skilful...which you need to be if you lack size (Brent Harvey)....

but remeber, I also thought
Barry Brooks, Alan Murray, Caydn Beetham, Ben Schwarze, Andrew McQualter and Fergus Watts were players in the making...

[BAM! (shhhh)]

It's my Opinion......you have yours....

Have you seen Eljay - do you know much about him.....he was obviously a speculative pick...and IMOwill struggle to make an impact...

I had a similar argument with a tool about J.Sweeney (who is far ahead of Eljay)...

Its fair to say nearly all picks after maybe 30 are speculative, to write a 17 year old who hasnt finished developing is harsh. Wait a year and he may have been top 20 who knows. As for Sweeney being ahead of Eljay as far as I can see Eljay is on a list while Sweeney is not my moneys with Eljay.

Harsh... but easy. While I take the opposite perspective to the pick (i.e. with pick 70 in a weak draft might as well take a smokey shot at the moon as take a Gourdis who'll struggle to get a gig at St. Kilda anyway), Eljay is a pretty easy guy to doubt...

All I know about him is that his speed, ballskills, and evasive skills are supposed to be good - well, they'd have to be, he's 65 kilos! Yes, we'd expect him to bulk up by the time he's 19/20, but rule of thumb being that AFLers tend to be around 100 kilos under their metric height, even as a small player, that's 15 kilos to put on while gaining and maintaining elite fitness.

I'm not against the pick (don't know enough to really have an informed view on who we should have taken at 70 in a weak draft, and obviously the clubs don't think as much of Gourdis and Gaertner as the BF boards did)... but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to say he's not likely to make it. Given that, pretty easy for those who want to make a case against it to do so... but as an underdog, it's going to be easy to barrack for him to make it.

[CURLY]

I disagree about that all picks after 30 being speculative...

Was Jarred Allen - an AA U18, and best FF n the TAC Cup a speculative pick at #59.....he may turn out to be no good....but he has the pedigree...

Sweeney from Tyabb
Gwilt from Noble Parke
Raymond From Sacred Heart College
Van Reehnan from Scoresby

are all high risk speculative picks, as they have not came through an elite prgram - it does not mean they cannot make it....but they have less foundation...basically they are a punt...

My worry about Eljay is his frame......he is as skinny as raymond - but shorter, doesn't seem all that skilful...which you need to be if you lack size (Brent Harvey)....

but remeber, I also thought
Barry Brooks, Alan Murray, Caydn Beetham, Ben Schwarze, Andrew McQualter and Fergus Watts were players in the making...

The four players you mentioned were all speculative and clearly Beveridge saw somthing in them he thought could be developed hence they were either last picks or rookied. You say Eljay doest seem skilful while all other reports are that he has great skills. Im not saying he will play 200 games like another no good skinny kid like Aussie Jones but lets not write him off. Also there are dozens of kids who dont play in the U/18 comp who could play AFL. Travel, work or family reasons often stand in the way it would be deralict of a recruiting officer to over look these kids.

[skeptic]

lol...

I love this logic St.Mart

You posted right off the bat 2 years ago that u thought Gilbert would be a star and every1 responded "Great post" "good to hear" "thanks for that"

Than you post that u thought Sweeney would struggle and the majority respond "your an ass" "give him a chance" "why write him off"

i love the hypocrisy

[Megamaguire]

Welcome to Saint Kilda. Some of us (self included) are suffering from a bit of angst on the back of 2 recent preliminary finals and the sneaking suspicion that the Saints would have made a grand final recently with a decent and fair minded medical and conditioning program. I am very heartened with the club 'finding' Sam Fischer and young Gilbert. Eljay assume you have something special that the coaches can bring out of you and go for it.

G O S A I N T S !

[Brian Collis]

Must admit that Raymond was an absolute waste. Could crack a game in the Scorps 1sts.

[St.M]

I get a lot wrong......but two things I do are this.....

1) watch them at training - focus on skil level and work ethic (for anyone who wonders why Reiwoldt is so good, go to training and focus solely on him and you'll see)

2) watch them at Casey - focus on ability under pressure, and work rate...

my opnons are only that....but I don't make a judgement without seeing something first....

ie/ Gilbert playng FB on Frankling vs Box Hill in 2005 and beating him one out , and running off him....a few times

or/ Sweeney being lazy vs Port Melb 2005 and trying to cheat - he kicked two goals...but his work rate and body language were terrible...and whilst he was uncanny, he double grabbed the ball a lot...he seemed intent on trying to take hangers, rather than hit up leads...

or/Grams 4 first quarter goals and 13 possesions from HBF against geelong in the VFL in 2004, when he was being called to be delisted.

Players who have showed a bit, I assumed would make it....
Alan Murray - Intra-Club/countless VFL games and debut at St.K are games where he showed real talent - something happened.
Andrew McQualter - In under 18 for Gippsland he was excellent, and on debut for St.K/and vs Port in Tassie he was superb..I was certain
Fergus Watts - Dominated U18 carnival, and was tearing Port Melb apart before he broke his ankle in 2005.
Barry Brooks - Watched him play VFL for Tassie at 17yo (a freak) in the ruck...then initially in the ruck for the scorps he had a leap like J.White and amazing skills...he came back as a fwd and I saw him dominate quarters (similar only better than the Brisbane game) but he rarely sustained it...his performance as a ruckman for Casey last season was excellent - I still thought he could cut it...
Cayden Beetham - I saw a one handed pick up under pressure at Moorabbin one day vs Geelong (vfl) in 2002..he the split a pack and took the ball kouta-esque on the wing...sprinted off, and boomed it to the goalsquare - like a young Riccutio.

[saintspremiers]

I'm not too fussed about draft picks beyond the second round, they are all iffys....the most important thing is to get your first two picks right (ie. up to about pick 30 they should all have some potential).

[Spinner]

I get a lot wrong......but two things I do are this.....

1) watch them at training - focus on skil level and work ethic (for anyone who wonders why Reiwoldt is so good, go to training and focus solely on him and you'll see)

2) watch them at Casey - focus on ability under pressure, and work rate...

my opnons are only that....but I don't make a judgement without seeing something first....

ie/ Gilbert playng FB on Frankling vs Box Hill in 2005 and beating him one out , and running off him....a few times

or/ Sweeney being lazy vs Port Melb 2005 and trying to cheat - he kicked two goals...but his work rate and body language were terrible...and whilst he was uncanny, he double grabbed the ball a lot...he seemed intent on trying to take hangers, rather than hit up leads...

or/Grams 4 first quarter goals and 13 possesions from HBF against geelong in the VFL in 2004, when he was being called to be delisted.

Players who have showed a bit, I assumed would make it....
Alan Murray - Intra-Club/countless VFL games and debut at St.K are games where he showed real talent - something happened.
Andrew McQualter - In under 18 for Gippsland he was excellent, and on debut for St.K/and vs Port in Tassie he was superb..I was certain
Fergus Watts - Dominated U18 carnival, and was tearing Port Melb apart before he broke his ankle in 2005.
Barry Brooks - Watched him play VFL for Tassie at 17yo (a freak) in the ruck...then initially in the ruck for the scorps he had a leap like J.White and amazing skills...he came back as a fwd and I saw him dominate quarters (similar only better than the Brisbane game) but he rarely sustained it...his performance as a ruckman for Casey last season was excellent - I still thought he could cut it...
Cayden Beetham - I saw a one handed pick up under pressure at Moorabbin one day vs Geelong (vfl) in 2002..he the split a pack and took the ball kouta-esque on the wing...sprinted off, and boomed it to the goalsquare - like a young Riccutio.

I agree with your ratings with most of the above.

Especially McQualter and Brooks....

What it tells us thou, is how bloody hard it is to cut it at AFL level.

Bloody hard, even for the talented.

[iwantmeseats]

jesus christ, I asked about kosi! Does every thread have to go wildly off topic as people debate each other?

[bigcarl]

obviously no-one knows. maybe there's no problem at all?

[skeptic]

i guess we haven't have had the resources/knowledge on how to properly develop players on our list...

when u compare our footy department to say that of WCE... u tend to get an idea of how far behind the mark we really start

[joffaboy]

obviously no-one knows. maybe there's no problem at all?

Yes but a very nice discussion on Eljay.

The guy looks tiny and I can see why some would wonder at his selection.

Will be a long long time before he gets a gig by the sounds of it.

[saintsRrising]

They said Ausie was too small to make it.....

[Eastern]

I disagree about that all picks after 30 being speculative...

Was Jarred Allen - an AA U18, and best FF n the TAC Cup a speculative pick at #59.....he may turn out to be no good....but he has the pedigree...

Sweeney from Tyabb
Gwilt from Noble Parke
Raymond From Sacred Heart College
Van Reehnan from Scoresby

are all high risk speculative picks, as they have not came through an elite prgram - it does not mean they cannot make it....but they have less foundation...basically they are a punt...

My worry about Eljay is his frame......he is as skinny as raymond - but shorter, doesn't seem all that skilful...which you need to be if you lack size (Brent Harvey)....

but remeber, I also thought
Barry Brooks, Alan Murray, Caydn Beetham, Ben Schwarze, Andrew McQualter and Fergus Watts were players in the making...

Both Gwilt & VanRheenan spent time in the elite junior program (TAC Cup). Both dropped out for different reasons. Gwilt for cricket and VanRheenan for study. So they both had a taste at U16 and possibly U17 level !!

[saintly]

see other thread re kosi

http://heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/comm ... 22,00.html

[TimeToShineFellas]

I had a similar argument with a tool about J.Sweeney (who is far ahead of Eljay)...

Yeah but I Eljay's attitude will be so far ahead of Sweeney's though..