What's wrong with Kosi ??

[spert]

I think the thread rasies a good argument, we all love Kozi, but Kozi does need to follow up his initial potential and early career form, by being more consistant, and if he is playing forward, kick goals or provide assists -his place in the team is as a big marking forward/ ruck option, and he seems to be just circulating at the moment rather than making a statement to the opposition.

[hAyES]

What's wrong with Kosi is Ross Lyon has a gameplan where he chooses not to get it in quickly to give him a good chance one out. By the time it gets to Kosi there are about 3 or 4 players back and he has to rely on a miracle mark.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

What's wrong with Kosi is Ross Lyon has a gameplan where he chooses not to get it in quickly to give him a good chance one out. By the time it gets to Kosi there are about 3 or 4 players back and he has to rely on a miracle mark.

i think the dome doesnt suit ross lyon and the style we want to play

look at the game against the eagles last year where we won over at subi...3 line forward line...one out in the square...worked a treat

[BigMart]

He had a bad game....very much a confidence player.....structure did not help

[hAyES]

What's wrong with Kosi is Ross Lyon has a gameplan where he chooses not to get it in quickly to give him a good chance one out. By the time it gets to Kosi there are about 3 or 4 players back and he has to rely on a miracle mark.

i think the dome doesnt suit ross lyon and the style we want to play

look at the game against the eagles last year where we won over at subi...3 line forward line...one out in the square...worked a treat

That is true, but even in that game we were much more attacking. I saw players running past for the handball receive and moving the ball quickly at every opportunity. To me, Ross looks too focused on shutting the opposition down rather than outscoring them, which is a mistake when you look at the players on our list.

[The Fireman]

Kosi has the potential to tear a game apart either at Full forward or maybe CHB, he looked lost last night.

[st.byron]

Seriously, I just thought Kosi had a quiet night tonight. Last week a little bit better kicking and some decent umpiring and he could have got 4 or five.


Coming into games against the Bulldogs and Cats, I'd rather see Kosi there than Charlie Gardiner or Jaryd Allen.

You're being generous Les. Last week, without any other factor than his crap kicking, he would have had four or five. He kicked 2.3 and his 3 points were all shots that any decent FF would have nailed.
Against teams like the cats and dogs he'll need to make a much more solid contribution. Needs to present better and make himself a genuine target if he's going to play FF. And his set shot kicking is very poor. Makes you wince as he's running in to kick.

[mad saint guy]

look at the game against the eagles last year where we won over at subi...3 line forward line...one out in the square...worked a treat

Riewoldt, Kosi...who was the third?

Look at when Kosi has played his best football.

2001 season - All at CHB
Rounds 13-17 2005 - Dominated as a ruck/forward with no Riewoldt in the team
Round 12 2007 - No Gehrig in the side. Kosi had the 30m within goals to himself
Games late 2007 - Played as our number one ruckman

He has never played his best footy when part of a crowded forward line. He is either a CHB, a ruckman, or a lone FF given plenty of space to lead.

[st.byron]

Unbelievable cannibals!

Like a pack of Richmond fans eating their own.

I don't believe we can win a premiership without a fit and firing Kosi. If we lose to some better teams in the next month, it won't be because of a forward having a quiet couple of nights.

Look at the midfield if you must, MUST bag our own players.

Easy tiger. It's fair enough for people to suggest that he's not best suited to FF on his performances so far. He's a rotten kick for goal, doesn't take enough cotested marks against quality backmen, isn't great once the ball hits the deck and is very inconsistent. I think it's fair to say that he's over-hyped and over-rated. Not saying he's not a good player, but he lacks the consistency that makes a guy a really top quality contributor. Now that he seems to got over his injury worries, he's struggling to stamp his authority on the role that's been given to him.

[st.byron]

Kosi has the potential to tear a game apart either at Full forward or maybe CHB, he looked lost last night.

Fireman, am so tired of seeing 'Kosi' and 'potential' in the same sentence. Time for him to deliver on his 'potential'. Well and truly time.

[bigcarl]

granted kosi had an absolute dog of a night and no-one is disputing that.

but here are a few things to ponder if you look at the bigger picture.

1) how many would have gehrig kicked had he been picked up by the in-form and effective thornton?

2) why would we go back to the predictable riewoldt/gehrig/milne attack that was the lowest scoring set-up in the competiton last year?

3) will our midfielders be encouraged to go long, quick and direct into the forward line without a contested marking specialist such as kosi there? or will they dick around chipping it sideways and give our opponents time to get numbers back?

4) how much easier is it for opportunists such as milne, schneider and mediums like xavier without the long, quick and direct delivery that kosi's presence ensures?

as i said earlier i feel very strongly that removing kosi from the forward line would be just about the worst mistake that RL and st kilda could make.

we won by 40 points (should have been 60) and kicked 19 goals and for once didn't seem afraid to launch it long to a contest.

unlike most other clubs we have three potentially very dangerous big forwards and it gives our oppositions no end of nightmares during the week worrying about how to cover all three.

carlton became so obsessed in trying to cover our "big three" that blokes like milne, schneider and xavier were able to fly under the radar.

one week before too long i envisage a night when fraser or roo plays an absolute dog and kosi is the star.

doesn't matter much to me which of them fires, so long as st kilda wins and our forward line kicks goals

[bigcarl]

also, let's not forget that gehrig "retired" forcing us to go after a good ruckman so kosi could play forward.

he's not going back into the ruck as we have guys there doing a more than capable job and he's potentially too valuable forward

one thing kosi will always do is ensure a contest under a high ball

[fonz_#15]

Lake goes to Kosi

just on Lake...when did he change his name?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Lets not turn on Kosi just yet. His kicking at goal has been woeful so far, but over the course of his career, he's kicked 95.56, so it's not like he's unable to kick straight.

He had a bad game last night, but did a very good job of marking vs. the Swans, so I'm pretty comfortable with him playing up forward... and I'm definately someone who thinks he's been a better ruckman than FF till now in his career (when he kicked 4 against WC he was pushing forward from the ruck, once he was moved to FF he was beaten by Glass).

[Lennon]

What's wrong with Kosi is Ross Lyon has a gameplan where he chooses not to get it in quickly to give him a good chance one out. By the time it gets to Kosi there are about 3 or 4 players back and he has to rely on a miracle mark.

Riewoldt has the exact same problem, yet it rarely factors in him escaping criticism.

The difference between Riewoldt and Koschitzke last night was that Nick kept working at getting into the game.

[rodgerfox]

....he becomes disgrutled at not playing there and being used in this floaty position where at times he doesnt quite know what to do.....

...

Kosi's favourite posi is the ruck.

Not as a forward.

[matrix]

....he becomes disgrutled at not playing there and being used in this floaty position where at times he doesnt quite know what to do.....

...

Kosi's favourite posi is the ruck.

Not as a forward.

i heard him say that too somewhere.....kinda surprised me actually

[bigcarl]

Kosi's favourite posi is the ruck. Not as a forward.

unfortunately it is not about what is best for him. sometimes you have to take one for the team.

[rodgerfox]

Kosi's favourite posi is the ruck. Not as a forward.

sometimes you have to take one for the team

Sure. Couldn't care less where a player likes to play.

Just pointing out that contrary to what some are starting to say - Kosi doesn't prefer playing forward. The ruck is his preferred position.

[matrix]

some people dont read

[maverick]

As others have alluded to, G and Kosi are playing the same position, Kosi and Barker need to work out how it will work, its what they are paid to do.

I have confidence it will work, but I know what won't work, Kosi full time in the ruck, certainly not at this stage of his career anyway....

[To the top]

Where is the drama?

Do you expect each of Gehrig, Riewoldt and Koschitzke to kick 5?

Plus a couple each from Schnieder and Milne?

Plus a contribution from the mid-field, such as X. Clarke's 3 on Saturday night?

Plus a contribution from King and M. Gardiner dropping forward?

Even if we kick 20, as we really should be nudging, someone will miss out.

Riewoldt was out marked by Waite on several occasions, both in front and behind. Are we being critical of Riewoldt?

I do not recall Koschitzke actually being out-marked. He contested the long kicks in, including against team mates - and one spillage he gave to Milne for a goal. He was not used as a one on one target during the night because there were other options - that is the way it will break.

Spent time on the bench, and rucked very late.

Still needs some conditioning in his legs, but it is early days.

The summary is a that he is a very dangerous option - and he can easily cover 50 metres where the accuracy will come.

[Iceman234]

and one spillage he gave to Milne for a goal.

Pretty sure he handballed from the bottom of a spill to King for a goal also.

[bigcarl]

Where is the drama?

Do you expect each of Gehrig, Riewoldt and Koschitzke to kick 5?

Plus a couple each from Schnieder and Milne?

Plus a contribution from the mid-field, such as X. Clarke's 3 on Saturday night?

Plus a contribution from King and M. Gardiner dropping forward?

Even if we kick 20, as we really should be nudging, someone will miss out.

good post

personally i'd whack kosi at chf as a marking target, leave fraser at ff and give riewoldt a licence to roam the forward 50 as he sees fit.

it will be a huge mistake if we go back to the easily-countered kick-it-to-roo gameplan.

then opposition teams just double-team him and smash us across half back and we have no-one down there to take a contested grab.

i've seen it way too often under two different coaches.

many consistent avenues to goal is what we need and i see kosi forward as a very important part of that.

at the very worst he is always going to draw one of their best defenders and free up either roo or fraser.

at best he'll kick a bag.

people need to see the bigger picture on this one.

it's not just about him starring every week and kicking bags of goals. it is about what he offers to our structure as a whole.

if it works as it should it is a nightmare for any opposition given a half decent supply of the ball down there.

... and whack bj and gram on opposing wings to ensure long, quick and direct delivery.

[rodgerfox]

Where is the drama?

Do you expect each of Gehrig, Riewoldt and Koschitzke to kick 5?

Plus a couple each from Schnieder and Milne?

Plus a contribution from the mid-field, such as X. Clarke's 3 on Saturday night?

Plus a contribution from King and M. Gardiner dropping forward?

Even if we kick 20, as we really should be nudging, someone will miss out.

Riewoldt was out marked by Waite on several occasions, both in front and behind. Are we being critical of Riewoldt?

I do not recall Koschitzke actually being out-marked. He contested the long kicks in, including against team mates - and one spillage he gave to Milne for a goal. He was not used as a one on one target during the night because there were other options - that is the way it will break.

Spent time on the bench, and rucked very late.

Still needs some conditioning in his legs, but it is early days.

The summary is a that he is a very dangerous option - and he can easily cover 50 metres where the accuracy will come.

I completely understand your point, which is what BigCarl points out also.

However, I believe Kosi is far too good to be sitting in the goal square not touching the ball every second week. Kosi's value is far too great to effectively have him as a decoy forward unless he gets a dud on him.

I mean really, a guy like Charlie Gardiner should kick 3 or 4 if he gets the 3rd tall behind Gehrig and Roo, with the smalls (Milne/Schneider) also posing a danger.

Sure, some weeks Kosi would definately be ideal to start forward and stay there. But generally, over the course of the season I'd much prefer to see him drifting across half back and floating forward at his discretion.