I wish Roo was as good a kick for goal as Buddy....

[perfectionist]

Franklin does not have a classic style, like Fraser. It will serve him well for a time while he is young and uninjured as his kicking strength makes up for lack of technique. Nick is an example of the ravages of time and injury - as is Kosi - for big men. It remains to be seen how it plays out for Franklin - and he can't kick on his right.

[HarveysDeciple]

i amazed some of you guys can actually work a computer....

this thread isn't about how many goals Roo/Buddy kick

this thread isn't about how good a player Roo/Buddy are

this thread isn't about which team is better

this thread IS about Buddy NOT being a better set shot for goal than Roo, like soome on here state as fact

Buddy kicked 6 today, 3 from snaps, 2 from set shots (one being in the goal square, the other 20m out) i didn't see his first one

i saw most of the second half, and he missed 4 set shots, ranging from 50m out to 25m out

how many SET SHOTS at goal does he have to miss before some of you people admit that maybe he's not the awesome SET SHOT at goal as you claim

sorry to be harsh, but lets try keep it on topic here people

I like the fact that when he has the ball inside 50, he has a shot.....unlike some others.

again not the point...

Franklin is a gun...but this thread is not about whether he is a good player, or whether the hawks are a good side..


its whether he is a good kick for goal from a set shot, and better then roo.

answer is no.

Well HD, my post was actually relevant to the set shot debate.

I was trying to make the comparison that Roo only shoots from directly in front, very close to goal. And hence by limiting the number of opportunities he creates actually increases the reliability within his kicking.

Franklin shoots from everywhere, and anywhere.

Franklin is a better kick for goal.

yeah and he misses heaps.. and when he does get them 30 out directly in front, you would flip a coin.
The fact he has more shots means he has more shots. It doesn't mean he kicks a higher percentage of them.

Franklins goal accuracy last year was the worst of all the top 15 goal kickers and this year he remains unreliable.

[The_Dud]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

[Spinner]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

I thought buddy kicked 5 goals???

Pretty good effort in a All Star forward line.

Nonetheless, each and every one was a drop punt from where i was sitting....

[The_Dud]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

I thought buddy kicked 5 goals???

Pretty good effort in a All Star forward line.

Nonetheless, each and every one was a drop punt from where i was sitting....

no, only 4

and of course they're drop punts, sailing thru the points......

[Solar]

it's a good point. Very selfish player who is relying on his athletic prowless currently. Will be interesting to see what an injury or two does, especially if it's his hammies or knee.

Have to respect judd in that respect, lost his ability to sprint away yet is so smart at where he positions himself that he pushes off and makes space so well. I'm yet to be totally convinced with buddy.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

To be fair to Buddy, he had two GA last night (one more than he's got for the entire year for Hawthorn). Was sitting with a mate who goes for the Hawks and he was commenting that a game like this could be a really good experience for Franklin, as he spends so much time getting pumped up as one of the best players in the AFL, to be on the field with the other candidates and players who have had that pump up before could really show him what's necessary to be the guy the media builds him up as.

It shows a lot to command 9 shots at goal in that kind of field, regardless of it being such a high scoring game. He set a couple up, he effected a really good chase on Goodes through the middle of the ground.

By kicking 4.5 (2 of the goals and one of the behinds were gimmies too) he also elicits for me more and more memories of a younger Matthew Richardson, capable of winning or losing a game for his team. You'd rather have him than not, but some days the home fans will love him, and some days the opposition ones will.

[plugger66]

it's a good point. Very selfish player who is relying on his athletic prowless currently. Will be interesting to see what an injury or two does, especially if it's his hammies or knee.

Have to respect judd in that respect, lost his ability to sprint away yet is so smart at where he positions himself that he pushes off and makes space so well. I'm yet to be totally convinced with buddy.

Your the one. He is a superstar and if he was playing for us he would be better than Judd, Brown and Pavlich combined.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

it's a good point. Very selfish player who is relying on his athletic prowless currently. Will be interesting to see what an injury or two does, especially if it's his hammies or knee.

Have to respect judd in that respect, lost his ability to sprint away yet is so smart at where he positions himself that he pushes off and makes space so well. I'm yet to be totally convinced with buddy.

Your the one. He is a superstar and if he was playing for us he would be better than Judd, Brown and Pavlich combined.

Thing with Buddy is that if he gets that accuracy sorted out he'd be better than Brown and Pavlich combined anyway... but donning the Saints colours isn't normally a tonic for accuracy, so maybe we should leave elevating him from superstar to best in league to fans of the team he does play for.

[supersaints]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

Yes it is a myth . I had to pull up Kevin Bartlett , Neil Balme and our ex CEO on the radio last year when they were saying that Buddy was much more accurate than St Nick , I checked the official data and Buddys accuaracy was down around 50% and Nicks around 60% when I rang. They were all sheepish and said they would check with champian data, never heard` another word from the so called experts.....

[Spinner]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

Yes it is a myth . I had to pull up Kevin Bartlett , Neil Balme and our ex CEO on the radio last year when they were saying that Buddy was much more accurate than St Nick , I checked the official data and Buddys accuaracy was down around 50% and Nicks around 60% when I rang. They were all sheepish and said they would check with champian data, never heard` another word from the so called experts.....

Its the way Riewoldt kicks the ball for goal.

It's deplorable. Unimpressive and clearly hit and miss.

How can anyone that actually looks at the ball off Riewoldts boot, through the air, and just clear the line defend his kicking?

Its absolutely amazing.

Superstar....But his kicking isn't up there anywhere with the best.

[Spinner]

it's a good point. Very selfish player who is relying on his athletic prowless currently. Will be interesting to see what an injury or two does, especially if it's his hammies or knee.

Have to respect judd in that respect, lost his ability to sprint away yet is so smart at where he positions himself that he pushes off and makes space so well. I'm yet to be totally convinced with buddy.

Your the one. He is a superstar and if he was playing for us he would be better than Judd, Brown and Pavlich combined.

Thing with Buddy is that if he gets that accuracy sorted out he'd be better than Brown and Pavlich combined anyway... but donning the Saints colours isn't normally a tonic for accuracy, so maybe we should leave elevating him from superstar to best in league to fans of the team he does play for.

Exactly.

[Solar]

it's a good point. Very selfish player who is relying on his athletic prowless currently. Will be interesting to see what an injury or two does, especially if it's his hammies or knee.

Have to respect judd in that respect, lost his ability to sprint away yet is so smart at where he positions himself that he pushes off and makes space so well. I'm yet to be totally convinced with buddy.

Your the one. He is a superstar and if he was playing for us he would be better than Judd, Brown and Pavlich combined.

I'm sorry but superstars show this type of form for more then a year. Yes very good player who is in VERY good form but we are only in round 7 FFS. Seriously I thought saints supporters jump on bangwagons, this buddy wagon is choke full.

As I have mentioned, it will be interesting to see how he responds to his first serious injury. Or if the midfield start to struggle.

[Spinner]

it's a good point. Very selfish player who is relying on his athletic prowless currently. Will be interesting to see what an injury or two does, especially if it's his hammies or knee.

Have to respect judd in that respect, lost his ability to sprint away yet is so smart at where he positions himself that he pushes off and makes space so well. I'm yet to be totally convinced with buddy.

Your the one. He is a superstar and if he was playing for us he would be better than Judd, Brown and Pavlich combined.

I'm sorry but superstars show this type of form for more then a year. Yes very good player who is in VERY good form but we are only in round 7 FFS. Seriously I thought saints supporters jump on bangwagons, this buddy wagon is choke full.

As I have mentioned, it will be interesting to see how he responds to his first serious injury. Or if the midfield start to struggle.

???

What the hell does that have anything to do with it?

Maybe you should just wait for him to play his 250 games. Retire for 10 years. And then make an opinion of his 'abilities' well into his senior coaching career.

Or you can judge him for what he is NOW. And acknowledge that he has the credentials of a superstar.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

Yes it is a myth . I had to pull up Kevin Bartlett , Neil Balme and our ex CEO on the radio last year when they were saying that Buddy was much more accurate than St Nick , I checked the official data and Buddys accuaracy was down around 50% and Nicks around 60% when I rang. They were all sheepish and said they would check with champian data, never heard` another word from the so called experts.....

Its the way Riewoldt kicks the ball for goal.

It's deplorable. Unimpressive and clearly hit and miss.

How can anyone that actually looks at the ball off Riewoldts boot, through the air, and just clear the line defend his kicking?

Its absolutely amazing.

Superstar....But his kicking isn't up there anywhere with the best.

Take out Reiwoldt's name an insert Franklin's and you've got my view on Buddy. Perhaps add a line about the different technique he applies in different situations.

Thing is, all of the dominant CHF's are in some way short of perfect, but do enough to give us an idea of what the perfect CHF would do... they all occasionally tantalise us with an awesome game or two, without ever quite getting there, and when they're off, we are dissapointed.

I think a lot has to do with the way the game passes the CHF position altogether in most matches. Of the 4 dominant CHFs (Reiwoldt, Pavlich, Brown, and now Franklin), Franklin and Brown generally adapt best to playing close to goal (though Brown has struggled a bit with injury to click with Bradshaw back)... though when given the role, Reiwoldt and Pavlich are more than capable of it. the first 3 are by now known quantities, and we've got more set expectations.

Buddy is younger and newer in his powers if you will, we see numbers like 4.5, 8.6 and think "wow, imagine if he'd kicked straight." Even though to date he's shown no sign of eliminating his bad patches. It why I draw the Richo comparison - we know him for a strong leading, VERY strong marking CHF, but the inability to convert has been his bane.

Buddy can play for another 10 years, and be a superstar for every one of them... it's inevitable that he won't get the class of delivery he does right now for all 10, but with his skills, the question is whether he'll straighten up and be remembered with the Carey's and Breretons, or go on to be another Matthew Richardson, who for all his skills has not been a guy that Richmond's been able to successfully build around (without meaning for a second to blame Richo for the woeful job of building they've done in the latter half of his career).

At the moment, he's no better a kick than Reiwoldt.

[Mr Magic]

Why not make a comparison of Buddy with teh best shots at goal.

Is he a better shot at goal from any distance than Fev?
I would think Fev is a better shot than him.

Is he a better shot than plugger from any distance?
My memory and statistics would indicate that even in his short career so far, Buddy is nowhere near Plugger in terms of accuracy.

Is he a better shot at goal from any distance than Lloyd?
I think statistics would give it to Lloyd

I think it is wron to compare Buddy to Roo or other CHF's because he is playing as a FF and not a CHF. Roo, Pav, Lucas, Stewie Loewe, Wayne Carey were all CHFs who occasionly played FF and not FFs who occasionly played CHF (which is what I believe Buddy is)

[Solar]

it's a good point. Very selfish player who is relying on his athletic prowless currently. Will be interesting to see what an injury or two does, especially if it's his hammies or knee.

Have to respect judd in that respect, lost his ability to sprint away yet is so smart at where he positions himself that he pushes off and makes space so well. I'm yet to be totally convinced with buddy.

Your the one. He is a superstar and if he was playing for us he would be better than Judd, Brown and Pavlich combined.

I'm sorry but superstars show this type of form for more then a year. Yes very good player who is in VERY good form but we are only in round 7 FFS. Seriously I thought saints supporters jump on bangwagons, this buddy wagon is choke full.

As I have mentioned, it will be interesting to see how he responds to his first serious injury. Or if the midfield start to struggle.

???

What the hell does that have anything to do with it?

Maybe you should just wait for him to play his 250 games. Retire for 10 years. And then make an opinion of his 'abilities' well into his senior coaching career.

Or you can judge him for what he is NOW. And acknowledge that he has the credentials of a superstar.

because players at 21 are always looking a little more aerobic then they are when they get a few niggles and start feeling their age. The amount of first or second year SUPERSTARS who go on to struggle is astounding.

Have a look at roo in 2004 compared to roo now. Back then he could run around marking everything. Now he struggles to get away from backman. Was interesting to read that riewoldts standing jump, sprinting speed and running jump where all above buddy's at the draft camp. Just shows you what 7 years does to a player, especially with injury and niggles.

If buddy is still doing this is 5 years time like roo has then I am happy to call him a superstar.

[yipper]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

Yes it is a myth . I had to pull up Kevin Bartlett , Neil Balme and our ex CEO on the radio last year when they were saying that Buddy was much more accurate than St Nick , I checked the official data and Buddys accuaracy was down around 50% and Nicks around 60% when I rang. They were all sheepish and said they would check with champian data, never heard` another word from the so called experts.....

Its the way Riewoldt kicks the ball for goal.

It's deplorable. Unimpressive and clearly hit and miss.

How can anyone that actually looks at the ball off Riewoldts boot, through the air, and just clear the line defend his kicking?

Its absolutely amazing.

Superstar....But his kicking isn't up there anywhere with the best.

Buddy has a delporable technique - which is why he misses so often. He is still moving the ball around in his hands whilst moving into take his kick!! Comes in on an angle of what? 45 degrees to his target - and kicks across his body. I reckon Roo's technique is ok - particularly on the follow thru, his only blemish is that he drops it from to high onto his boot.

I can assure you the Hawks coaching team don't like his technique and believe he did not receive good coaching in his junior years. He does have a thumping kick on him - but it aint an accurate one.

[The_Dud]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

Yes it is a myth . I had to pull up Kevin Bartlett , Neil Balme and our ex CEO on the radio last year when they were saying that Buddy was much more accurate than St Nick , I checked the official data and Buddys accuaracy was down around 50% and Nicks around 60% when I rang. They were all sheepish and said they would check with champian data, never heard` another word from the so called experts.....

Its the way Riewoldt kicks the ball for goal.

It's deplorable. Unimpressive and clearly hit and miss.

How can anyone that actually looks at the ball off Riewoldts boot, through the air, and just clear the line defend his kicking?

Its absolutely amazing.

Superstar....But his kicking isn't up there anywhere with the best.

Buddy has a delporable technique - which is why he misses so often. He is still moving the ball around in his hands whilst moving into take his kick!! Comes in on an angle of what? 45 degrees to his target - and kicks across his body. I reckon Roo's technique is ok - particularly on the follow thru, his only blemish is that he drops it from to high onto his boot.

I can assure you the Hawks coaching team don't like his technique and believe he did not receive good coaching in his junior years. He does have a thumping kick on him - but it aint an accurate one.

exactly

nearly all Roo's shots are perfect drop punts, i don't know what kicks you're looking at Spinner

he walks in a straight line at the goals, and the ball goes dead straight off the boot

unlike Buddy, who walks towards the left point post, and hooks the ball across his body, with the ball then swinging thru the air

so i would rate Roo's technique alot better than Buddy's

[yipper]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

Yes it is a myth . I had to pull up Kevin Bartlett , Neil Balme and our ex CEO on the radio last year when they were saying that Buddy was much more accurate than St Nick , I checked the official data and Buddys accuaracy was down around 50% and Nicks around 60% when I rang. They were all sheepish and said they would check with champian data, never heard` another word from the so called experts.....

Its the way Riewoldt kicks the ball for goal.

It's deplorable. Unimpressive and clearly hit and miss.

How can anyone that actually looks at the ball off Riewoldts boot, through the air, and just clear the line defend his kicking?

Its absolutely amazing.

Superstar....But his kicking isn't up there anywhere with the best.

Buddy has a delporable technique - which is why he misses so often. He is still moving the ball around in his hands whilst moving into take his kick!! Comes in on an angle of what? 45 degrees to his target - and kicks across his body. I reckon Roo's technique is ok - particularly on the follow thru, his only blemish is that he drops it from to high onto his boot.

I can assure you the Hawks coaching team don't like his technique and believe he did not receive good coaching in his junior years. He does have a thumping kick on him - but it aint an accurate one.

exactly

nearly all Roo's shots are perfect drop punts, i don't know what kicks you're looking at Spinner

he walks in a straight line at the goals, and the ball goes dead straight off the boot

unlike Buddy, who walks towards the left point post, and hooks the ball across his body, with the ball then swinging thru the air

so i would rate Roo's technique alot better than Buddy's

I reckon all the top forwards kick with far better techniques - he just gets a lot more opportunities due to his undoubted talent.

[Spinner]

4.5 tonight......

sorry to flog the dead horse, but i feel it needs to be highlighted or else some people will go around continuing to encourage the myth that Buddy is a better set shot than Roo

would have been interesting to have seen Roo run around for the DT tonight, maybe that could have changed the result.....?

Yes it is a myth . I had to pull up Kevin Bartlett , Neil Balme and our ex CEO on the radio last year when they were saying that Buddy was much more accurate than St Nick , I checked the official data and Buddys accuaracy was down around 50% and Nicks around 60% when I rang. They were all sheepish and said they would check with champian data, never heard` another word from the so called experts.....

Its the way Riewoldt kicks the ball for goal.

It's deplorable. Unimpressive and clearly hit and miss.

How can anyone that actually looks at the ball off Riewoldts boot, through the air, and just clear the line defend his kicking?

Its absolutely amazing.

Superstar....But his kicking isn't up there anywhere with the best.

Buddy has a delporable technique - which is why he misses so often. He is still moving the ball around in his hands whilst moving into take his kick!! Comes in on an angle of what? 45 degrees to his target - and kicks across his body. I reckon Roo's technique is ok - particularly on the follow thru, his only blemish is that he drops it from to high onto his boot.

I can assure you the Hawks coaching team don't like his technique and believe he did not receive good coaching in his junior years. He does have a thumping kick on him - but it aint an accurate one.

exactly

nearly all Roo's shots are perfect drop punts, i don't know what kicks you're looking at Spinner

he walks in a straight line at the goals, and the ball goes dead straight off the boot

unlike Buddy, who walks towards the left point post, and hooks the ball across his body, with the ball then swinging thru the air

so i would rate Roo's technique alot better than Buddy's

Laughable.

Not having a go but are these 'perfect drop punts' seen live? Or from a TV screen.

Also, do you just disregard all the ones that don't make the distance and come off the side of the boot....

Riewoldt doesn't even want to attempt to have a shot himself. At least Buddy has got confidence in his own ability.

Roo looks to pass if he isn't directly in front of goal....

[The_Dud]

Laughable.

Not having a go but are these 'perfect drop punts' seen live? Or from a TV screen.

Also, do you just disregard all the ones that don't make the distance and come off the side of the boot....

Riewoldt doesn't even want to attempt to have a shot himself. At least Buddy has got confidence in his own ability.

Roo looks to pass if he isn't directly in front of goal....

see, its blatant untruths like this that really annoy me

also, even Buddy himself knows he has kicking problems, as he says himself he would rather have a shot from 55 than 20 meters out

[Spinner]

Laughable.

Not having a go but are these 'perfect drop punts' seen live? Or from a TV screen.

Also, do you just disregard all the ones that don't make the distance and come off the side of the boot....

Riewoldt doesn't even want to attempt to have a shot himself. At least Buddy has got confidence in his own ability.

Roo looks to pass if he isn't directly in front of goal....

see, its blatant untruths like this that really annoy me

also, even Buddy himself knows he has kicking problems, as he says himself he would rather have a shot from 55 than 20 meters out

Serious Dudy, Im really starting to believe that you don't actually watch St Kilda play.

My own mother can see that Riewoldt looks to pass at EVERY opportunity. (Well most anyways - Anything not directly in front - but positions in which goalkicker should get)

I understand you feel the need to defend him, but this is just way past the point.

Tell me now so I can stop pressing the point...You really think Riewoldt displays the 'confidence' that should be shown when in front of goal???

Im starting o believe you watch this guy with your eyes closed.

Star - Yes, Athlete - Yes, Spirit - Yes, One of the most dominate players in the league - Yes.

Kicking at goal - Absolutely Not.

[HarveysDeciple]

just a quick one? so you think franklins run in on a different angle and kick it accross his body with a spear swinging both ways is a good technique?

isn't the bottom line conversion? buddy's kicking is so inconsistant it's not funny.

the bloke is one of the best in the business no doubt as a player, and would be scarily good if he was a half decent kick.

[The_Dud]

Laughable.

Not having a go but are these 'perfect drop punts' seen live? Or from a TV screen.

Also, do you just disregard all the ones that don't make the distance and come off the side of the boot....

Riewoldt doesn't even want to attempt to have a shot himself. At least Buddy has got confidence in his own ability.

Roo looks to pass if he isn't directly in front of goal....

see, its blatant untruths like this that really annoy me

also, even Buddy himself knows he has kicking problems, as he says himself he would rather have a shot from 55 than 20 meters out

Serious Dudy, Im really starting to believe that you don't actually watch St Kilda play.

My own mother can see that Riewoldt looks to pass at EVERY opportunity. (Well most anyways - Anything not directly in front - but positions in which goalkicker should get)

I understand you feel the need to defend him, but this is just way past the point.

Tell me now so I can stop pressing the point...You really think Riewoldt displays the 'confidence' that should be shown when in front of goal???

Im starting o believe you watch this guy with your eyes closed.

Star - Yes, Athlete - Yes, Spirit - Yes, One of the most dominate players in the league - Yes.

Kicking at goal - Absolutely Not.

yes he passes off more than Buddy, but he doesn't miss form 35 out, basically directly in front, like Buddy does, repeatedly....

i know you're obviously too proud to admit you were wrong, but your beginning to show some Dermott Brereton qualities.....