This season?

[bigcarl]

give the kids a go, but sensibly ... and still try to win every game.

[desertsaint]

Option 2? Are you suggesting that if we play kids we will lose enough to fall to 12th?

In other words we deliberately select to lose?

I thought we wanted to ingrain a winning culture?

So we play down a few years - what then - get some decent picks who suddenly find they are the core group as the likes of roo, dal santo, goddard, ball, hayes, fisher, etc are entering their twilight - can we really get better given the GC and WS teams will take the cream of the draft.

[iwantmeseats]

AFAIC, i have changed my mind. Stuff option 2. Why not just trade away ALL the dood wood. Hell you could start a bonfire with that lot. Just completely rebuild the second tier. Yo?

[degruch]

DOOD WOOD! Trimming that is a bit harsh!

[S.A Saint]

regarding your question desertsaint . the thing that i am saying is play the kids for the rest of the year (all of them). Now we may not win every game or even win one game but that will at least develop the kids and give them valuable experience. lets face it with the players we got know (excluding players like hayes, ball, roo, dal, monty, gram, chips, goddard, kosi, m gardiner, max, harves, goose, etc all Schneider maybe) we will not win a flag or even make the 8 on our current form.

so instead of playing the players like l.fisher, blake, fiora, etcc play the kids. We go out and try to win every game but if we have 7 or 8 kids playing in our team there is little chance we will win.

winning culture? mate look at carlton and the way they are playing when was the last time they had winning culture besides this year. they were dead for the past 10 years and look what a bit of spark and fresh young talent can do.

all im saying is play the kids this year and next without worrying to make the 8 so we can get a few quality draft picks before the 2 new teams come and and with the core of players we have know we be a major force to challenge for the flag in 2010.

no point coming 8 or 9 this season and next and then when we really need to rebuild the 2 teams will screw us over big time because they will get all the picks and that will take at least 10 years before we can have an actual decent side again.

[m_m]

you guys are such tankers

[3rd generation saint]

Just making the 8 is no longer good enough, only a premiership will do.
Therefore option 2 that has more potential to achieve a premiership.

[degruch]

Tank? Hawthorn didn't tank. Bulldogs didn't tank. I think what we need is good focused recruiting. Spending years on the bottom is a pretty lousy way to resurrect your on-field performances.

[mad saint guy]

I don't think you could say that playing the kids is tanking in our case.

Surely Armitage, Geary, Howard, McEvoy, Allen and Steven (maybe only a few for Steven) couldn't be worse than any combo of Dempster, C.Gardiner, Rix, Raph, Fiora, Ferguson, L.Fisher and Blake. Yes, replacing Hayes and Riewoldt with Chivers and Haretuku would be tanking, but replacing old hacks with kids playing well in the VFL is a necessity these days.

Would like to see something like this for the remainder of the season.

B: Gilbert, Hudghton, Goddard
HB: Gram, S.Fisher, Geary
C: Armitage, Hayes, Montagna
HF: Birss, Riewoldt, Schneider
F: Allen, Koschitzke, Milne

Foll: M.Gardiner, Ball, Dal Santo
Int: X.Clarke, Harvey, Howard, McEvoy

Emg: King, Jones, Baker

[S.A Saint]

totally agree with you msg. i would however add in stevens instead of milne and find a spot for jones because he has shown improvement this year instead of schneider.

or we could have stevens jones rotating with milne and Schneider for those people who are thinking we are tanksing

[cam_buttles]

option 2 and trade or think about trading everyone except roo, dal, lenny, ball, s. fisher, goddard, gram, armo, mc evoy and any other good youngs for draft picks.

knowing us, we will develop these players and we can have a great team. then bomb out in the prelims and fail miserably.

[matrix]

no picks next year and we get none for ages.....
the two new sides will see to that.
the eagles will tank from now on, as i would if i was coaching them.

trade is the only choice to get some picks next year....after that, forget it.

[groupie1]

How about option 3. Play the kids and somehow still manage to get into the 8.

I agree play howard, geary, connors, armitage, mcEvoy, Ellen perhaps, Eddy, Steven as opposed to Fiora, Fisher, Blake, Milne, C gardiner - and you might find us in a better position anyway. then, we have at least some trade posibilities - trade L Fisher, Blake for a draft pick swap type thing

either way - we make the 8 or not, we've got 6 months into the kids

we don't make the 8 we get picks and a 5-6 players with 1/2 a year in
we do make the 8 is means those kids added the enthusiasm we needed and we might just do ok

i still basically think it's the last 5 players that cause us the diff between being flag contenders and also-rans. take them out, add in kids, and see how the cookie crumbles

[BAM! (shhhh)]

winning culture? mate look at carlton and the way they are playing when was the last time they had winning culture besides this year. they were dead for the past 10 years and look what a bit of spark and fresh young talent can do.

Not sure what others would think of as a winning culture, but in my view, club culture goes beyond a single decade. When the old guard walk through the halls at Carlton, you're talking about decorated premiership winning players. This is the legacy that is indoctrinated into their youngsters, not the failings of recent years.

But mroe importantly, our own culture - I think it's indicative of our culture that as soon as it has gotten tough, we're thinking of tanking again, when it's not that long ago we were down at the bottom of the ladder regardless of tanking. That we look at Carlton's improvement and potential and we're looking at them as something to aspire to. Carlton are where we were in 2003. They may have a better 2nd half, and may even make finals, but they're in no danger of winning it this year, and there's a lot of water under the bridge before they will, with no guarentees.

That's not what I want the Saints modelling on... I'd rather take a look at the decade of finals including premierships achieved by the Swans and Eagles, and accept that some years will be more competitive than others, and build winning into the bones of the club. It may be necessary at times to re-load through a down year (and I may change my tune if we were to lose say the next 3) if you lose players in the manner the Eagles have... but tanking from mid ladder for a single draft pick is not a shortcut to glory.

[congorozides]

Tank? Hawthorn didn't tank. Bulldogs didn't tank. I think what we need is good focused recruiting. Spending years on the bottom is a pretty lousy way to resurrect your on-field performances.

they kind of did.... they got rid of some of hacks and just played kids. you need 15 guys in the 100-150 game mark playing together to be any good.

(and fiora and blake dont count)

[groupie1]

other way to lok at this of course is to see the threate as the opportunity.
ewith everyone offloading players to get draft picks, why dont we top up on mid-20s players - could get some quality players on offer for crap draft picks

a 25-26 year old has 4 years left - enough to see us through the draft pick shock with the 2 new teams - look how stephen powell stood up to shepherd through Ball, Dal, Hayes to a degree

think about what everyone else is doing... and do the opposite.

[groupie1]

the sydney model, add to the core some solid drafted off-cuts, complimented by a couple ids if they're any good.
have success every year