Justin Koschitzke

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

User avatar
WayneJudson42
SS Life Member
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon 07 Jul 2008 9:53pm
Location: I'm a victim of circumstance

Post: # 620935Post WayneJudson42 »

Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:
WayneJudson42 wrote:Interesting comments made on FC...

Lyon: 6'5". Should start getting used to pplaing FF.

Archer: Body language is a problem.

Don't think he'll be traded to be honest.

Perhaps leave him in the square.

Caro made the comment that the midfield was crap on Saturday, which wouldn't have helped.
caro is correct, when our midfield goes okay kosi and anyone else looks like a million bucks

have we really forgotten we were missing one of the best clearance players in the game???

anyone???
How dare you raise intelligent facts on this forum?

MODS! Ban this guy :lol:


The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
st.byron
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10598
Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 7:04pm
Location: North
Has thanked: 1011 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Post: # 620945Post st.byron »

WayneJudson42 wrote:
tired of the vindictive crap that comes out of peoples moths :roll:

Hotdish actually makes a lot of sense IMHO.

Kosi should be parked in the goal square and left there until he gets used to it. If he has an attitude issue, then this needs to be addressed, and I dare say it will.

Wjilst we bag plaeyrs like Kosi and Dal, we forget that they gave up bigger $$$ to saty with the Saints.
I'm not advocating trading him. I'm am saying that he's not untouchable and that assessment of his value has to stand on his performances and not on what he could be if only...(insert excuse of choice here)
That's what I'm tired of. All of you passionately defending him to me are not willing to look at the fact of his performances and continually make excuses for him. If he comes good great, but you can only hide behind excuses for so long before looking at the reality.


saintbob
SS Life Member
Posts: 3541
Joined: Wed 21 May 2008 8:51pm
Location: Tassie
Has thanked: 459 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Post: # 620982Post saintbob »

Kosi needs to play CHB, until he gets his confidence back.

RL has never allowed him to settle into one position, seems to get lost between the roles he is being asked to play.


st.byron
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10598
Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 7:04pm
Location: North
Has thanked: 1011 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Post: # 621053Post st.byron »

saintbob wrote:Kosi needs to play CHB, until he gets his confidence back.

RL has never allowed him to settle into one position, seems to get lost between the roles he is being asked to play.
another excuse. They just keep coming. How about, WTF is Koschitzke going to do about his performances?


User avatar
Little Dozer
Club Player
Posts: 855
Joined: Tue 11 Jul 2006 4:44pm
Location: Forward Pocket, Outer side, Linton Street end or bay 38 Waverley

Post: # 621055Post Little Dozer »

Kosi should be traded while he still has some value.


davidgrantfan
Club Player
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed 30 Jul 2008 5:11pm
Location: williamstown
Has thanked: 99 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Post: # 621060Post davidgrantfan »

read AGE sport today for RL's comments about Kosi, Gram, Fisher, Montagna, BAll, Hayes, etc. Kosi wont be traded and best is yet to come.

Also, read Age today re Dal SAnto's health which goes a long way to explaining his recent form.

.


User avatar
Little Dozer
Club Player
Posts: 855
Joined: Tue 11 Jul 2006 4:44pm
Location: Forward Pocket, Outer side, Linton Street end or bay 38 Waverley

Post: # 621064Post Little Dozer »

davidgrantfan wrote:read AGE sport today for RL's comments about Kosi, Gram, Fisher, Montagna, BAll, Hayes, etc. Kosi wont be traded and best is yet to come.

Also, read Age today re Dal SAnto's health which goes a long way to explaining his recent form.

.
Forgive me if I don't respect Lyon's opinion.


User avatar
St Marcus
Club Player
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue 15 Jul 2008 2:19pm
Location: Olinda

Post: # 621078Post St Marcus »

This forum drives me up the wall.
HOW DARE PEOPLE ATTACK TWO PLAYERS WHO HAVE GIVEN UP BIG MONEY TO STAY SAINTS. yet all hell breaks losse if someone mentions our HERO SAINT NICK not kicking goals.
the whole team sucks right now because of the stupid game plan we have in place. i am ashamed to say i barrack for the saints never before in my life have i ever been ashamed to say that.

this is killing me seeing our players abused week in week out by their own supporters.
Maybe Kosi hasn't been playing anywhere near the standard we know he can but why single him out and why attack Dal and call him soft and say trade them both. You NEVER EVER TRADE LOYAL PLAYERS EVER.
what the hell is our motto STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
No-one on here knows what is really going on down there. But all i can say is if we don't win the next 3 games convincingly and do well in the finals Ross Lyon should watch out because there will be alot of backlash and members not re-signing next year.
We have always been a proud passionate and loyal group of supporters but lately, i haven't seen this at all and it tears me up inside to see it happening.
We are better then this.
Ross is destorying our players carrers and the sooner people see this the better.
There will be some who won't listen and some who will make excuses. But anyone who saw us play when we played under GT in the winning streak can see those boys loved each other and they loved their coach.
Rooie said at the best and fairest that maybe they loved each other too much BULL s***( no offence to Rooie i understand completely what he is getting at and i do to some extent think he is right on the money) but footy clubs are built on LOVE AND TRUST COMITTMENT AND HONESTY our players are not prima donnas as some people may think they are. The are guys who do still love each other and want to play for each other but because of this game plan they are left second guessing themselves and not TRUSTING each other because they are so worried about watching their man instead of playing they natural game.
I go to the footy this year for two reasons alone one SIR ROBERT HARVEY and secondly because I LOVE THIS CLUB AND I LOVE THESE BOYS THEY ARE TRULY THE BEST GROUP OF BOYS OUT THERE. I no longer go for the excitment of the game why because there is NONE not a single bit.
The only time on saturday night that i found my voice was when BJ took that amazing mark and kicked the goal.
Pretty sad isn't it .
Those of you who know me would know how loyal i am and if someone like me who used to travel anywhere to see them play is so upset and feels like not going to the footy anymore think how your average supporter would feel, Even worse think how someone who has supported this GREAT CLUB for 90 years feels.
This club is falling to pieces why because they have no heart no leadership or guidence anymore NO-one who knows what it REALLY MEANS TO WEAR THE RED WHITE AND BLACK JUMPER.
I'm not staying re hire GT as coach or anything but if in fact we are to keep Ross Lyon on as coach i seriously hope that he sources out GT and asks in fact BEGS him to be a part of it all again in a mentoring role like a motivator.
COME ON SAINTS BE COURAGEOUS SHOW SOME BALLS AND FIGHT LIKE YOU"VE NEVER FOUGHT BEFORE WE HAVE 3 WEEKS TO STAND UP AND BE NOTICED 3 WEEKS TO STAND UP AND TAKE PRIDE IN THE WAY WE HOLD OURSELVES 3 WEEKS TO TURN OUR DESTINY BACK INTO OUR FAVOUR 3 WEEKS BEFORE WE GIVE IT ALL WE HAVE GOT TO FAREWELL OUR CHAMPION.
3 WEEKS UNTIL WE PLAY OFF IN THE FINALS AGAIN.
3 WEEKS BEFORE OUR STARS CAN REALLY SHINE THROUGH.
WE ARE THE SAINTS WE ARE PROUD PASSIONATE AND LOYAL.
IT'S IN OUR HANDS





EXCELLENT POST, MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY


User avatar
WayneJudson42
SS Life Member
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon 07 Jul 2008 9:53pm
Location: I'm a victim of circumstance

Post: # 621086Post WayneJudson42 »

st.byron wrote:
saintbob wrote:Kosi needs to play CHB, until he gets his confidence back.

RL has never allowed him to settle into one position, seems to get lost between the roles he is being asked to play.
another excuse. They just keep coming. How about, WTF is Koschitzke going to do about his performances?
I have to admit that I have toyed with the idea and stated so on this forum that if he's disinterested, then we should trade him.

However, after hearing Lyon's view as well as another poster's explanation about fitness... I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I guess that's why so much importance is placed on uninterrupted preseasons etc. And I guess that conitnuity of game time is essential.

If we draw parallels between Roo and Kosi... let's stop and look at how many extra games Roo has played, and hence his superior performance.

Kosi has had some horrendous injuries and he himself has stated that he feels like a first year player again. His loss of momentum cannot be underestimated.

The same goes for some of th kids that haven't licked on as we would like.

On that basis, AFAIAC, Kosi is off the trade table this year. I was wrong, and I'll admit it.

Let's see what 2009 brings.

I also can't help wondering if others like Ball, X and even Raph were given time to develop correctly, they'd all be in better shape now.


The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18520
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1847 times
Been thanked: 825 times

Post: # 621092Post bigcarl »

Ross Lyon said: Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, Luke Ball, Jason Gram, Brendon Goddard, Sam Fisher, Sam Gilbert, they're the core. They're not going anywhere. And we have just got to keep adding to them. You don't trade that quality."
the best words to come out of ross's mouth for a while. i'm glad to hear it.

seeing dal chop us up for carlton or collingwood would have been a nightmare come true.


User avatar
Little Dozer
Club Player
Posts: 855
Joined: Tue 11 Jul 2006 4:44pm
Location: Forward Pocket, Outer side, Linton Street end or bay 38 Waverley

Post: # 621105Post Little Dozer »

WayneJudson42 wrote:
st.byron wrote:
saintbob wrote:Kosi needs to play CHB, until he gets his confidence back.

RL has never allowed him to settle into one position, seems to get lost between the roles he is being asked to play.
another excuse. They just keep coming. How about, WTF is Koschitzke going to do about his performances?


If we draw parallels between Roo and Kosi... let's stop and look at how many extra games Roo has played, and hence his superior performance.
The extra games Roo has played has nothing to do with it, he has superior ability, fitness and football smarts than Kosi.

Kosi hasn't played good football for quite sometime and his performance against Collingwood bordered on pathetic.


st.byron
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10598
Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 7:04pm
Location: North
Has thanked: 1011 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Post: # 621111Post st.byron »

WayneJudson42 wrote: I have to admit that I have toyed with the idea and stated so on this forum that if he's disinterested, then we should trade him.

However, after hearing Lyon's view as well as another poster's explanation about fitness... I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I guess that's why so much importance is placed on uninterrupted preseasons etc. And I guess that conitnuity of game time is essential.

If we draw parallels between Roo and Kosi... let's stop and look at how many extra games Roo has played, and hence his superior performance.

Kosi has had some horrendous injuries and he himself has stated that he feels like a first year player again. His loss of momentum cannot be underestimated.

The same goes for some of th kids that haven't licked on as we would like.

On that basis, AFAIAC, Kosi is off the trade table this year. I was wrong, and I'll admit it.

Let's see what 2009 brings.

I also can't help wondering if others like Ball, X and even Raph were given time to develop correctly, they'd all be in better shape now.
Fair and balanced I reckon Wayne, except for the bit about parallels with Roo and his injuries. As I've previously said, I'm not advocating trading Koschitzke. Unless it's a worthwhile deal. I am advocating assessing his worth based on the merit of his performances, not on what he's gunna be. It disturbs me that Lyon in the paper today is still defending him on the basis of what he's gonna be with a few soft references to how he's been ok this year. The credit he had in his account due to injuries and interrupted preparation has run out as far as I'm concerned. He said himself at the start of last season that it was time for him to deliver. We're still waiting.


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Post: # 621112Post plugger66 »

bigcarl wrote:
Ross Lyon said: Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, Luke Ball, Jason Gram, Brendon Goddard, Sam Fisher, Sam Gilbert, they're the core. They're not going anywhere. And we have just got to keep adding to them. You don't trade that quality."
the best words to come out of ross's mouth for a while. i'm glad to hear it.

seeing dal chop us up for carlton or collingwood would have been a nightmare come true.
Well keeping all those players isnt going to win us a flag either.


User avatar
WayneJudson42
SS Life Member
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon 07 Jul 2008 9:53pm
Location: I'm a victim of circumstance

Post: # 621131Post WayneJudson42 »

Little Dozer wrote:
WayneJudson42 wrote:
st.byron wrote:
saintbob wrote:Kosi needs to play CHB, until he gets his confidence back.

RL has never allowed him to settle into one position, seems to get lost between the roles he is being asked to play.
another excuse. They just keep coming. How about, WTF is Koschitzke going to do about his performances?


If we draw parallels between Roo and Kosi... let's stop and look at how many extra games Roo has played, and hence his superior performance.
The extra games Roo has played has nothing to do with it, he has superior ability, fitness and football smarts than Kosi.

Kosi hasn't played good football for quite sometime and his performance against Collingwood bordered on pathetic.
Sadly, it does. Many believed that he was the equivalent if not better than Roo. They were both taken in the same draft. Same logic as comparisons of Ball and Judd IMO.

I'd like to see where Kosi would be at if he had 4 or 5 good playing years under his belt. I believe that injury is the issue. That's why I'll give him another preseason to see how he develops.

Does anyone know how many senior games he's played? In the end, he was one of those big players who were ahead of their age on talent. But due to setbacks, he's now just another big man who has to develop.

It has not helped that he was rushed back so many times. When he copped the knock on his head, they should have given him the rest of the season off IMO.

He has not played good footy coz he has not had continuity. Look at Goose. Lenny and BJ are the 2 exceptions of players who have come back quickly to form.

X, is another one... like Kosi.

A fit Kosi with more uninterrupted preseasons and continual game time will be just as good and just as important as Roo in our team. Let's hope I am proved correct.

Get him fit, and give him a role he enjoys, and the rest will take care of itself.


The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Post: # 621136Post plugger66 »

Kosi has missed about 4 games in 2 years. That is enough footy to see if he is good enough and certainly enough for him to be footy fit. Lets face it he is an average footballer that can on a few occasions play an above average game. We would be mad not to at least look at a trade for him depending what is offerred.


Injuries can not be used as excuse anymore firstly because he has played enough footy and secondly he may get injured again and the he is worth nothing.


st.byron
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10598
Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 7:04pm
Location: North
Has thanked: 1011 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Post: # 621144Post st.byron »

plugger66 wrote:Kosi has missed about 4 games in 2 years. That is enough footy to see if he is good enough and certainly enough for him to be footy fit. Lets face it he is an average footballer that can on a few occasions play an above average game. We would be mad not to at least look at a trade for him depending what is offerred.


Injuries can not be used as excuse anymore firstly because he has played enough footy and secondly he may get injured again and the he is worth nothing.

agree with you Plugger re having had enough time to be match fit.
At some point the injuries excuses have to be consigned to the dustbin and he has to assessed on his actual form, not on what he's gunna be once he's fit.


bergsone
SS Life Member
Posts: 2905
Joined: Mon 28 Apr 2008 4:56pm
Location: victoria
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 116 times

Post: # 621146Post bergsone »

Doesnt look fit to me,others here are saying the same,what I dont understand is this far into season why is he not fit ,not as if he has missed a lot of footy,not much on inj list

If Im wrong so be it .If Im right WHY,have they tapered off his training too much,now he is struggling to catch up


st.byron
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10598
Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 7:04pm
Location: North
Has thanked: 1011 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Post: # 621147Post st.byron »

bergsone wrote:Doesnt look fit to me,others here are saying the same,what I dont understand is this far into season why is he not fit ,not as if he has missed a lot of footy,not much on inj list

If Im wrong so be it .If Im right WHY,have they tapered off his training too much,now he is struggling to catch up
Fair questions aren't they? If he's match fit and he's not performing, stop using injuries as an excuse.
If he's not match fit, after almost a full season, why the f*** not?


sunsaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon 07 Aug 2006 9:50pm
Location: Queensland - Beautiful one day ... you know the rest
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 318 times

Post: # 621165Post sunsaint »

Sobraz wrote:Watching Kosi, he spends more time chasing his opposing full back up and down the ground than in the attacking 50.... the amount of times we bombed it forward to no option only to see kosi at centre wing was a disgrace...

For mine, opposition clubs look to exploit his lack of endurance and due to our mission statement of following your man everywhere, kosi is made to run pointless km's...

Let Wakelin run to chf, leaving Kos ALONE in the 50.... Lyon has to get over this accountability ribbish and let our players play... the way it comes naturally...

Not sure if it was bigcarl that mentioned it in another thread, but Ross's tactics are killing, if not suffocating half our players...
another stupid, mindless, reprehensible, anti-Lyon post.
So you think it is fine for your opponent to run off you?
FOR THE RECORD when KOSI was chasing the WB ball carrier on the defensive wing & Gia cleaned him up WHO the coach???
....insert deafening silence....

The FACT is a 33 year old Wakelin lead and ran a 25yr old Kosi on a merry chase.
Have a good look at Kosi next time he is standing next to Roo.
Roo has got bigger arms, & a much more developed chest, AND his legs carry that frame around for two-three times more distance than Kosi covers in a match. It's up to Kosi if he wants to live up to the expectations or not, but there are no more excuses to him delivering.


Seeya
*************
Sobraz
SS Life Member
Posts: 3399
Joined: Thu 29 Mar 2007 1:06pm
Has thanked: 2 times

Post: # 621166Post Sobraz »

sunsaint wrote:
Sobraz wrote:Watching Kosi, he spends more time chasing his opposing full back up and down the ground than in the attacking 50.... the amount of times we bombed it forward to no option only to see kosi at centre wing was a disgrace...

For mine, opposition clubs look to exploit his lack of endurance and due to our mission statement of following your man everywhere, kosi is made to run pointless km's...

Let Wakelin run to chf, leaving Kos ALONE in the 50.... Lyon has to get over this accountability ribbish and let our players play... the way it comes naturally...

Not sure if it was bigcarl that mentioned it in another thread, but Ross's tactics are killing, if not suffocating half our players...
another stupid, mindless, reprehensible, anti-Lyon post.
So you think it is fine for your opponent to run off you?
FOR THE RECORD when KOSI was chasing the WB ball carrier on the defensive wing & Gia cleaned him up WHO the coach???
....insert deafening silence....

The FACT is a 33 year old Wakelin lead and ran a 25yr old Kosi on a merry chase.
Have a good look at Kosi next time he is standing next to Roo.
Roo has got bigger arms, & a much more developed chest, AND his legs carry that frame around for two-three times more distance than Kosi covers in a match. It's up to Kosi if he wants to live up to the expectations or not, but there are no more excuses to him delivering.
Anti-Lyon post?!..... Kosi is undoubtedly unfit, and has noone to blame but himself for that... but using him poorly is noone but Lyons fault..

FWIW i'm not an anti-Lyon poster... Get your facts right fw... not sure where it states that criticising an aspect of his coaching is 'stupid, mindless and reprehensible', but facts are Kosi is less use to us at half back when he is playing at FF... This is not a GT v's RL point to argue...

Get over yourself fool...


User avatar
BAM! (shhhh)
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2134
Joined: Thu 24 May 2007 5:23pm
Location: The little voice inside your head

Post: # 621180Post BAM! (shhhh) »

I think it's pretty disingenious to criticise Kosi based on running around after Wakelin and then not getting touches up forward, or for not being as fit as Nick Reiwoldt. Our forward line really, really suffers from, well, being our forward line.

Plenty of room to be dissapointed Kosi hasn't amounted to the player we hoped he would. Plenty of reason to wonder how on earth a player can win as much hard ball as he does, and not be able to get any of the easy stuff.

Having a go at him for fulfilling instructions, or for not being a superstar, is ridiculous.

Shane Wakelin's known for having a fair tank. If I were playing the Saints, one of my first moves would be to put a fullback with a tank on Kosi, then make sure than any opportunity had to be worked really hard for against multiple players. I don't think it's making excuses for a player to say he lost in a losing situation. The game was played on Wakelin and Malhouse's terms, not Kosi's and Lyon's.

Personally, I think when your forward structure demands 2x Nick Reiwoldt to work, you've got to revisit your forward structure. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brisbane plays a very similar style to us, but makes much much much better use of their forwards, regardless of who they are (and I'm not even beginning to try and compare Kosi to Bradshaw).


"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
sunsaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon 07 Aug 2006 9:50pm
Location: Queensland - Beautiful one day ... you know the rest
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 318 times

Post: # 621224Post sunsaint »

Sobraz wrote: Let Wakelin run to chf, leaving Kos ALONE in the 50.... Lyon has to get over this accountability ribbish and let our players play... the way it comes naturally...

Not sure if it was bigcarl that mentioned it in another thread, but Ross's tactics are killing, if not suffocating half our players...
Anti-Lyon post?!..... Kosi is undoubtedly unfit, and has noone to blame but himself for that... but using him poorly is noone but Lyons fault..

FWIW i'm not an anti-Lyon poster... Get your facts right fw... not sure where it states that criticising an aspect of his coaching is 'stupid, mindless and reprehensible', but facts are Kosi is less use to us at half back when he is playing at FF... This is not a GT v's RL point to argue...

Get over yourself fool...[/quote]

Please dont call me a f#ckwit.
It just diminishes my already fragile sense of self worth.
But I will play along, can you please tell me how to intrepret that Ross' tactics are killing our players as anything but anti-Lyon?


Seeya
*************
st.byron
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10598
Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 7:04pm
Location: North
Has thanked: 1011 times
Been thanked: 1055 times

Post: # 621238Post st.byron »

BAM! (shhhh) wrote:I think it's pretty disingenious to criticise Kosi based on running around after Wakelin and then not getting touches up forward, or for not being as fit as Nick Reiwoldt. Our forward line really, really suffers from, well, being our forward line.

Plenty of room to be dissapointed Kosi hasn't amounted to the player we hoped he would. Plenty of reason to wonder how on earth a player can win as much hard ball as he does, and not be able to get any of the easy stuff.

Having a go at him for fulfilling instructions, or for not being a superstar, is ridiculous.

Shane Wakelin's known for having a fair tank. If I were playing the Saints, one of my first moves would be to put a fullback with a tank on Kosi, then make sure than any opportunity had to be worked really hard for against multiple players. I don't think it's making excuses for a player to say he lost in a losing situation. The game was played on Wakelin and Malhouse's terms, not Kosi's and Lyon's.

Personally, I think when your forward structure demands 2x Nick Reiwoldt to work, you've got to revisit your forward structure. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brisbane plays a very similar style to us, but makes much much much better use of their forwards, regardless of who they are (and I'm not even beginning to try and compare Kosi to Bradshaw).
Fair call Bam with regard to last week's game specifically and agree that our forward structure still looks way too Roo dimensional. Hard to know where the solution lies isn't it? How is it that Brisbane makes better use of their forwards if the quality of Brown and Bradshaw isn't really the issue?


User avatar
BAM! (shhhh)
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2134
Joined: Thu 24 May 2007 5:23pm
Location: The little voice inside your head

Post: # 621255Post BAM! (shhhh) »

st.byron wrote:
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:Personally, I think when your forward structure demands 2x Nick Reiwoldt to work, you've got to revisit your forward structure. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brisbane plays a very similar style to us, but makes much much much better use of their forwards, regardless of who they are (and I'm not even beginning to try and compare Kosi to Bradshaw).
Fair call Bam with regard to last week's game specifically and agree that our forward structure still looks way too Roo dimensional. Hard to know where the solution lies isn't it? How is it that Brisbane makes better use of their forwards if the quality of Brown and Bradshaw isn't really the issue?
I'm cheating a little, as I've seen Brisbane live a bit too often thinks to my partner's evil ways (Lions fan). Which has on the upside afforded me the chance to watch the way they deal with 2 big forwards so much better than us. Please note, I'm not saying what they do would work for us, or that we should do what they do... but that they create situations better where it's hard to cover 2 forwards.

First off, if watching Brisbane (on TV or live) watch how often Brown or Bradshaw pick up disposal behind centre... almost never. They do not go there. Brisbane floods the cr4p out of their defensive line, but never, ever, ever those 2. They'll move Brown up to the wing in extreme situations, but normally if he ends up there, it's on the lead. 16 man zone is tops. If you see that zone, expect to see a kick to Brown (who works his butt off. The number of his marks that come on 2nd or 3rd leads is incredible. Especially when you learn he's not fully fit as today).

Second, their priority during breakout plays is to be able to go over the top of a zone. They've got their leading players, they've got their running players, and then they've got outlet marking players. I'd about given up on Brennan, he fills that role for them. Mitch clark has been pretty good at it, and Charman has been doing that for a while for them.

Third, I believe Brisbane has more set plays coming out of defense than we do.

Sum is that they much much much more regularly have someone looking into a forward line who 2 key elements haven't already run a marathon in creating the situation (well, Brown often does, but he's as freaky and freakier than Riewoldt). Bradshaw's a leader more than a wrestler, but a good wrestler too (better than Kosi at both), but trade the two, and Bradshaw would look hopeless, and Kosi would look good.

In comparison, we have our forward running all the way to HBF. We almost never see King used around the ground, and our kicking outlets have little plan to them. We get stuck out on the wings against rolling zones all the time and make life hard for ourselves.

The biggest difference is that when you watch them set up, they try not to assume that Brown is best at the end of a 10k run, or that Bradshaw has Brown's tank. Other teams react to them... or pay the price.


"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
saintly_safes
Club Player
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat 26 Jul 2008 9:44pm

Post: # 621316Post saintly_safes »

I know Kosi is struggling at the moment & i'm sure he knows that as well. I for one think hes a required player at St.kilda next year & for years to come.I know there are alot of fans that think he should be traded at years end but he is the player that can turn our situation around if he gets it together. Players of his talent don't come along too often & I know your all gunna say he's had chances & hasn't delivered . In his first year he won the rising star award (before injury & bad luck took its toll) playing at CHB so why carn't he play there now.It amazes me that he plays forward so often. He can be dangerous up forward & when on song can tear teams apart as we have seen on occassions but I think he could be just as damaging down back.


Post Reply