What a difference 12 monthes makes.

[ben_fff]

So how do we feel about Ross Lyon now? this time last year a fair amount of forumites were calling for his head, saying we at least needed top 4 this year to justify his appointment, well we scraped through to get the double chance and now we have a shot at GF standing in our way is a team we've had the wood over in recent times, a team Lyon out coached on the last two occasions we met.

Anyone still disagree with his appointment?

[Schillaci]

What a difference 3 months makes too

[timtam]

Remember, you are only as good as your last game.........

[Saint Bev]

Well I wasn't calling for his scalp, but I think overall he has done a great job since taking over. Less injuries and we are in the Prelim, can't ask for much more than that.

[Cairnsman]

Well I wasn't calling for his scalp, but I think overall he has done a great job since taking over. Less injuries and we are in the Prelim, can't ask for much more than that.

Oh yes we can Saint Bev.

[bigcarl]

we're a top 4 list, imo, and we're where we should be.

i've been a critic of ross at times but i must say i've been impressed with our style of play in three of the past four matches.

[saintsRrising]

Me..I thought we were in good hands last year despite all the critics...and I still do now.


Lyon has a vision for how he wants the team to be:

*Player wise
*Structure wise
*Gameplan wise
*Fitness wise.


He has systematically worked on improving each....and is still working at it...it is a work in progress.

All you can ask of the coach is that he has these various aspects trending in the right direction....and by and large he has.

The main are he has struggled in has been player workrate/committment......which has been patchy since the "streak".

Signs have been good here too since he drewa line in the sand by dropping Dal and Milne.


Lyon took the Board to task in a big way over the dismal player conditioning at the club,,,and it is starting to pay dividends now.

Gameplan wise we now have booth defensive and offensive game plans....though the players and coach have obviously struggled at time with their offensive side. But gain Lyon hasa vision for how it is meant to be...and we are getting there.

Player wise the list still has some lacks....but except for a key defender and perhaps a medium forward you can see it is being addressed. Still with so many defiencies in the list you cannot expect him to have fixed them all in only two draft periods. And even with that medium forward he tooka cheap gamble with Charlie...that has not really panned out....but again you can see he hasa Vision...and that by and large most of his player selections have worked).

(Expanded rookies...and Ben, Steven etc on the development path)

Lyon has also deftly work his list management to address some immediate problems with very econmical trades (King, MD, Dempster, Schneider) while simultaneosly building up the next wave of St Kilda players that will come through (McEvoy, Steven, Allen Eddy, Geary, Armo....)

now admitegly we have only gained asmall number of gamews from MG...but as far as I am concerned we are still ona winner as we took two injury proan ruckman fora combined cost of half of pick 43...and we hjave managed to get one No 1 ruckman out of it = win.


Now Lyon's job is a long way from done, as the Ctas and Hawks are raising the bar. But at least we are trensing in the right direction.

[saintsRrising]

we're a top 4 list, imo, and we're where we should be.

i've been a critic of ross at times but i must say i've been impressed with our style of play in three of the past four matches.

Execution is better..gameplan is essentally the same.

[Red]

SR your right. The players are starting to get a hang of the game plan.

We dominated the game and still only had 43 inside fifties about the same as

the week before. It shows that it takes time for the guys to implement the

plan.

[barneyboyz]

Funny but they were talking about how Doggies were to beat the Cats, I think it was Dermie who said that if they kick it long, say over 50m. then Cats would have a field day, went on to say they would have to work it into the fwd. line.

Bugger me if that isn't what we've been practicing all year!! especially against Hawks where we would be running the ball up the ground only to stop and chip around, then finally push through.

This might be just coincidense, but I was thinking why? they had a clear path, why would they stop & prop?

They did this to great effect against the Pies this week too, just enough intensity without blazing away in too much hurry...

[meher baba]

The turnaround has happened in less than 3 months

A year ago, most of us were giving Ross the benefit of the doubt. Wed had our most injury-ravaged season ever. we were unlucky to miss the 8

Then this year, after a promising start, we fell to pieces against the dogs and then just seemed to keep going backwards

The footy world and the media (except Robert Walls) had written him off. His commitment and passion for the job and the club were questioned.

As things sunk to their lowest ebb and our season looked totally shot, the President of the club had to dig deep and back him publicly as strongly as he could. And he somehow managed to do it without sounding entirely like he was saying the dreaded "the coach has my full support"

Many fans were ripping right into him by now. I was undoubtedly the most savage and bitchy.

He did have some strong supporters on here. Some seemed largely to be motivated by an inexplicable hatred of GT. Others, and you have to hand it to them, resolutely defended Lyon's abilities as a coach. I thought they were deluded, and perhaps they were (I still have trouble seeing what it was that they saw in his coaching in most of his first 30 or so games). But, let's face it, they were right and I and many others were wrong

Because, perhaps in the nick of time, Lyon and his charges turned it right around. He asserted his leadership, began to gain the full support of the players, and has hardly put a foot wrong ever since

Good on you Ross and good on you Greg and good on you Nick and the boys. And good on you Sos and Rocky and even Barker. And even Archie

And even (oh dear, is it time for me to take my pills?) Good on you sRr and B4E and JB and KT and even my old mate Teffers

I was wrong, I admit I was wrong, and I couldn't be happier about it

Now f@#k off the lot of you before I change my mind!!

[Otiman]

Good on you Ross and good on you Greg and good on you Nick and the boys. And good on you Sos and Rocky and even Barker. And even Archie

Which Greg?

[iceman]

I remember saying after the round 1 and 2 wins to sydney and carlton, walking away saying that we played some terrible footy, but still scraped home and i could see what lyon was trying to do.

For the first 6 weeks i culd see what he was trying to do.

It's hard for teams adjust to a different game plan and all the hard work drilling into the team about defensive pressure etc etc. seemed to get them in a rut, but once striking the balance we look much better.

If Lyon didn't change our game plan we may have still beaten essendon by 100 points, but i reckon would have struggled against Hawthorn in rd 16.

sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

[WayneJudson42]

Well, we've still got a way to go, but... I farken told youse all so!

Posted adnauseum that it would take time for everything to fall into place, and was ridiculed for it.

But that's ok. Hopefully, the ghosts of coaches past have been excorcised forever, and we can all move on with a single, united purpose.

Scary part is that we will improve next year.

[rexy]

As I have said before, I beleive RL has improved greatly as a coach. Whether he has changed his style slightly, our fitness has improved greatly or the players ability to understand and carry out his instruction is the difference I do not know. You would need to be a lot closer to the inner sanctum to have a handle on the changes that have ocurred.

I still have some question marks on his ability to get passionate and demand something out of his players and think it is disappointing that players like Armitage in particular have not been able to rise to the challenge of giving consistant performances. However I will say that he has shown (at least in public) that non selection will be the penalty for not doing the team things and the dropping of the 2 senior players mid season was good for our club and its resolve.

I think the work he has done on giving young players a game has been impressive and well balanced with spots being earnt for hard work and indicators like tackles, shepards and hard ball gets obviously baring as much importance when retaining your spot as kicks and handballs.

Overall 7.5 out of 10

[Legendary]

You make a lot of good points rexy, and I agree that he has improved.

It's reported that RL is a lot more relaxed and passionate at the club behind closed doors .... don't know how true this is, but apparently his passion is evident to those who work with him ... maybe something the general public don't see.

[saintsRrising]

. Some seemed largely to be motivated by an inexplicable hatred of GT.

I don't know if you mean me or not.

But I do not "hate" GT.

I have always posted the reasons for my support....which personally I believe are logical and supported with my reasons why.

Yet despite this I get labled as a "GT Hater"... or a" Liar"...etc etc...

To me when you look at the BIG PICTURE, GT was leading the Saints into decline because he quite simply did not have the full skill set, or necessary experience, to do the complete job that a modern coach needs to do.

I just believe that:

* he should never have been given the job (by his then mate)because he was not qualified to do it through appropriate experience
* that he had some core deficiencies (basically he was ok as a match day coach but was pretty clueless about list management, player conditioning, trades and player development)
* that his personality and working style was such that it is divisive and not suited to a "club" environment...and in particular to this modern era of greatly expanded coaching and support staff..
* that his ego was so large that he believed he knew it all when he clearly did not. This led to him being not accepting extra resources when offered involved in things he should not

I am of the view that if GT had not assumed the role of coach that our list would have been in better shape (in personnel and in development)..both then and now....and that this IMO has cost us GF appearances and hence possibly Premierships.

I have posted in detail and in depth on the ins and outs of this...it has nothing to do with "hate"

So no I do not "hate" GT, but yes I do wish that he had never become the coach.


With Lyon...my support is also not die to love but rather has been due to:

* him having a very solid apprenticeship to be a head coach.
* agreeing with his expressed fundamentals on what our list was lacking
*his active list management (for both the immediate and long term)
*his standing up to the then Board and demanding that our efforts in player conditioning be ramped up
*immediate improved relationship with Casey with the result that saints players could be better developed
*better use and development of rookies
* much improved gameplan. While many complained...to me I could see that Lyon was improving our defensive side when the opposition had the ball...and this was a MAJOR problem under the previous coach where our defensive gameplan was poor.

However unlike many I did not expect RL to wave a magic wand and get instant success. It was possible, but only if a long list of IF's went right which they did not.

RL did struggle with player workrate (and I posted at the start of last season, his first, that this would be his biggest challenge)... 4 quarter efforts...but this was not new as our list had been this way since the "streak" finished.


Overall I was content with Lyon because as far as I could see he was doing all the things right to turn the ship around.

Lyon has vision, he has purpose and is of firm resolve.

He knows what needs to be done to be successful.

He is putting all the pieces of the jig-saw together. Off-field and on.

Have I agreed with everthing? No. for example I cannot fathom why Birrs was dropped the first time this season.....and even more so the second time. But there must be some aspect of team or Birss's game or match-ups, that was not quite right.

[saintsRrising]

The turnaround has happened in less than 3 months

No. You are just seeing the end results of a lot of effort and thought.

You are seeing the tip of the iceberg and not understanding the larg mass underneath.

Has player conditioning for example been turned around in 3 months?.....no it has been a 2 year effort.

[saintly]

You make a lot of good points rexy, and I agree that he has improved.

It's reported that RL is a lot more relaxed and passionate at the club behind closed doors .... don't know how true this is, but apparently his passion is evident to those who work with him ... maybe something the general public don't see.

well, according to archie, h is more passionate privately.

see the ask archie on saints central dated sept 12.