Changes from Port practice game

[SainterK]

Goodness, I wasn't there but wasn't our peformance dismal across the board? Yes Kosi has to improve, yes he is carrying heavy expectation into 2009...but I don't think it's fair that he shoulders the supporters frustration on his own on this particular occasion as surely he had company?

[Quixote]

Unfortunately, I don't think Jimmy Gwilt has any place in our top 22.

If he's in the side, we're in trouble. And I say this as a fan of the guy. But frankly, he's just too bloody slow!

Lynch in for him. Steven in. Rest X and Max till Rnd 3 when they're right. f***, rest Roo Round One if he needs it. Goose target R5. Dawson, Blake, Begley, Ray to step up. I reckon Raph might be right too.

Heyne is knocking on the door. As Rocco should be.

Bloody shame about Armo. Hopefully only a few weeks.

I'm prepared for another slow start.

Oh - and that dude that posted the Kosi RUBBISH should be banned from this site!!

[SainterK]

X played a bit.......looked very slow

Over to you Bernard

[St Fidelius]

Unfortunately, I don't think Jimmy Gwilt has any place in our top 22.

If he's in the side, we're in trouble. And I say this as a fan of the guy. But frankly, he's just too bloody slow!

Lynch in for him. Steven in. Rest X and Max till Rnd 3 when they're right. f***, rest Roo Round One if he needs it. Goose target R5. Dawson, Blake, Begley, Ray to step up. I reckon Raph might be right too.

Heyne is knocking on the door. As Rocco should be.

Bloody shame about Armo. Hopefully only a few weeks.

I'm prepared for another slow start.

Oh - and that dude that posted the Kosi RUBBISH should be banned from this site!!

Well I am not prepared for a slow start at all

Round 1 Sydney Home
Round 2 Adelaide Away
Round 3 WCE Home
Round 4 Freo Home

We should win the first four games, or at the very least 3 of them.

As far as banning someone that has an opinion on a player, what's wrong with that?

It was not abusive, it was just his opinion. Disagree yes, but ban WTF

[saint66au]

Unfortunately, I don't think Jimmy Gwilt has any place in our top 22.

If he's in the side, we're in trouble. And I say this as a fan of the guy. But frankly, he's just too bloody slow!

Lynch in for him. Steven in. Rest X and Max till Rnd 3 when they're right. f***, rest Roo Round One if he needs it. Goose target R5. Dawson, Blake, Begley, Ray to step up. I reckon Raph might be right too.

Heyne is knocking on the door. As Rocco should be.

Bloody shame about Armo. Hopefully only a few weeks.

I'm prepared for another slow start.

Oh - and that dude that posted the Kosi RUBBISH should be banned from this site!!

Well I am not prepared for a slow start at all

Round 1 Sydney Home
Round 2 Adelaide Away
Round 3 WCE Home
Round 4 Freo Home

We should win the first four games, or at the very least 3 of them.

As far as banning someone that has an opinion on a player, what's wrong with that?

It was not abusive, it was just his opinion. Disagree yes, but ban WTF

Correct Fid..those first 4 games are critical..we cannot afford to "ease our way into the season" as we did in 07 and 08.

..and yes..noones gonna get banned for an opinion on a plyer unless its personal or abusive. IM a huge and vocal Kosi supporter but evn he would admit he's had a preseason from hell considering his "best ever" fitness base.No impact up forward..tried in the ruck today and flogged fom all reports.

So badly want the big fella to play a blinder to get his mojo back

[SaintBot]

St Kilda
Sydney

FB: S.Baker – Z.Dawson – R.Clarke
FF: J.McVeigh – H.Grundy - P.Veszpremi

HB: S.Fisher – J.Blake – F.Ray
HF: R. O’Keefe – B.Hall – A.Buchanan

C: L.Montagna – L.Hayes – B.Goddard
C: N.Malceski – B.Kirk – A.Goodes

HF: S.Gilbert – N.Riewoldt – J.Gram
HB: T.Richards – C.Bolton – R.Shaw

FF: S.Milne – J.Koschitzke – A.Schneider
FB: P.Bevan – L.Roberts-Thomson – M.Mattner

R: S.King – N.Dal Santo – L.Ball
R: D.Jolly – C.Bird – J.Bolton

I/C: M.Gardiner – X.Clarke – J.Steven – J.Geary
I/C: J.White – J.Moore – K.Jack – E.Barlow

EMG: T.Lynch – L.Fisher – C.Begley – J.Gwilt – C.Jones – A.McQualter
EMG: L.Ablett – J.Crouch – M.O’Dwyer – M.Laidlaw – R.Brabozon


Out due to fitness: M.Hudghton, D.Armitage, M.Maguire, S.Dempster, J.Allen, R.Eddy


17 of the 18 players I have selected on the field will be lock-ins (with respect to fitness) for anyone. Dawson as a rookie may not have full support however he's been recruited as a replacement for Hudghton when he finishes so it is a must that Dawson is given the nod while Max is out. It helps that O'Loughlin is injured as Dawson's opponent will probably only be Heath Grundy.

Picking the final four for the bench gets a little harder.
I've drawn a line through L.Fisher and A.McQualter for round one due to the fact that Sydney just doesn't have anyone worthy of specifically negating.

Gwilt was very ordinary towards the end of last season. He is extremely slow both in mind and pace.

Jones could get a look in due to the fact that he gets the ball and actually has genuine pace. However I still don't favor playing him plainly due to his skills.

Lynch from reports has been promising as a third tall. I'm very tempted to have him rotating off the bench however against Sydney another tall isn't as vital. Give him a few games at center half forward for Sandringham and give him a shot in the seniors by round 5.

By the looks of it Ross is determined to go back to giving both King and Gardiner about 50% gametime per match. So therefore Gardiner takes one spot on the bench.

So that leaves Begley, X.Clarke, Steven and Geary as players pushing for those last three spots. I've gone with the latter three basically due to their better preseason numbers. If Clarke has any fitness doubts then I'd have no hesitation in bringing in Begley (or if you must, Jones).



I have Baker on McVeigh. Whether Baker follows him when he goes onball I'm not sure. We will need a small defender to take the likes of Moore and Jack when they go forward.

Sam Fisher on O'Keefe. If Fisher needs to be freed up then send Gilbert back onto ROK and bring in Lynch (or Gwilt) to play as third tall.

It would be very entertaining to see Goddard go head to head with Goodes. Lets hope these two get physical because I know who would win hands down.

Finally our on ball rotation consists of: Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo, Goddard, Ray, Gram, Montagna, X.Clarke, J.Steven and Baker as a tagger.

[santazzi]

Mmm......I find the comments on Kossi interesting as I have also been trying to understand why we persist with him in the forward line....I remember his moment of glory as a CHB...........why can he not go back to that position?...I will appreciate enlightenment from the scholars of the game!!!!

[matrix]

if we can get a decent Ff then year why not stick him at chb.

thing that frustrates me with koz is that the bloke has done some great stuff, i mean when he;s on song his marks are great, all strength.
sadly it rarely happens now.
delivery, space etc etc have something to do with it tho

i know one thing, he's def prob more frustrated then us lot.

[bobmurray]

Has Gram played in any of these matches?

I only ever saw him play just 10 odd minutes in the intra club and he left the ground.

He wasn't at training on Monday and I can't remember seeing him at all this year.

Having said that, Gram would only have been at about 20% of training sessions last year. Must be seeing the coach's missus.

GRAM was at training on Tuesday though..not many spectators there..

Me..a bike rider and 4 electricians....

[St Fidelius]

Has Gram played in any of these matches?

I only ever saw him play just 10 odd minutes in the intra club and he left the ground.

He wasn't at training on Monday and I can't remember seeing him at all this year.

Having said that, Gram would only have been at about 20% of training sessions last year. Must be seeing the coach's missus.

GRAM was at training on Tuesday though..not many spectators there..

Me..a bike rider and 4 electricians....

Good news and I hope he is fine.

Gees, your avatar is a little distracting

[Solar]

St Kilda
Sydney

FB: S.Baker – Z.Dawson – R.Clarke
FF: J.McVeigh – H.Grundy - P.Veszpremi

HB: S.Fisher – J.Blake – F.Ray
HF: R. O’Keefe – B.Hall – A.Buchanan

C: L.Montagna – L.Hayes – B.Goddard
C: N.Malceski – B.Kirk – A.Goodes

HF: S.Gilbert – N.Riewoldt – J.Gram
HB: T.Richards – C.Bolton – R.Shaw

FF: S.Milne – J.Koschitzke – A.Schneider
FB: P.Bevan – L.Roberts-Thomson – M.Mattner

R: S.King – N.Dal Santo – L.Ball
R: D.Jolly – C.Bird – J.Bolton

I/C: M.Gardiner – X.Clarke – J.Steven – J.Geary
I/C: J.White – J.Moore – K.Jack – E.Barlow

EMG: T.Lynch – L.Fisher – C.Begley – J.Gwilt – C.Jones – A.McQualter
EMG: L.Ablett – J.Crouch – M.O’Dwyer – M.Laidlaw – R.Brabozon


Out due to fitness: M.Hudghton, D.Armitage, M.Maguire, S.Dempster, J.Allen, R.Eddy


17 of the 18 players I have selected on the field will be lock-ins (with respect to fitness) for anyone. Dawson as a rookie may not have full support however he's been recruited as a replacement for Hudghton when he finishes so it is a must that Dawson is given the nod while Max is out. It helps that O'Loughlin is injured as Dawson's opponent will probably only be Heath Grundy.

Picking the final four for the bench gets a little harder.
I've drawn a line through L.Fisher and A.McQualter for round one due to the fact that Sydney just doesn't have anyone worthy of specifically negating.

Gwilt was very ordinary towards the end of last season. He is extremely slow both in mind and pace.

Jones could get a look in due to the fact that he gets the ball and actually has genuine pace. However I still don't favor playing him plainly due to his skills.

Lynch from reports has been promising as a third tall. I'm very tempted to have him rotating off the bench however against Sydney another tall isn't as vital. Give him a few games at center half forward for Sandringham and give him a shot in the seniors by round 5.

By the looks of it Ross is determined to go back to giving both King and Gardiner about 50% gametime per match. So therefore Gardiner takes one spot on the bench.

So that leaves Begley, X.Clarke, Steven and Geary as players pushing for those last three spots. I've gone with the latter three basically due to their better preseason numbers. If Clarke has any fitness doubts then I'd have no hesitation in bringing in Begley (or if you must, Jones).



I have Baker on McVeigh. Whether Baker follows him when he goes onball I'm not sure. We will need a small defender to take the likes of Moore and Jack when they go forward.

Sam Fisher on O'Keefe. If Fisher needs to be freed up then send Gilbert back onto ROK and bring in Lynch (or Gwilt) to play as third tall.

It would be very entertaining to see Goddard go head to head with Goodes. Lets hope these two get physical because I know who would win hands down.

Finally our on ball rotation consists of: Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo, Goddard, Ray, Gram, Montagna, X.Clarke, J.Steven and Baker as a tagger.

best write up I have read

was tempted with the idea of moving gilbert back and leaving chips in the midfield but chips does not seem to be making much of a fist of the midfield currently.

could begley come in and give us that option of using baker in the midfield?

[plugger66]

St Kilda
Sydney

FB: S.Baker – Z.Dawson – R.Clarke
FF: J.McVeigh – H.Grundy - P.Veszpremi

HB: S.Fisher – J.Blake – F.Ray
HF: R. O’Keefe – B.Hall – A.Buchanan

C: L.Montagna – L.Hayes – B.Goddard
C: N.Malceski – B.Kirk – A.Goodes

HF: S.Gilbert – N.Riewoldt – J.Gram
HB: T.Richards – C.Bolton – R.Shaw

FF: S.Milne – J.Koschitzke – A.Schneider
FB: P.Bevan – L.Roberts-Thomson – M.Mattner

R: S.King – N.Dal Santo – L.Ball
R: D.Jolly – C.Bird – J.Bolton

I/C: M.Gardiner – X.Clarke – J.Steven – J.Geary
I/C: J.White – J.Moore – K.Jack – E.Barlow

EMG: T.Lynch – L.Fisher – C.Begley – J.Gwilt – C.Jones – A.McQualter
EMG: L.Ablett – J.Crouch – M.O’Dwyer – M.Laidlaw – R.Brabozon


Out due to fitness: M.Hudghton, D.Armitage, M.Maguire, S.Dempster, J.Allen, R.Eddy


17 of the 18 players I have selected on the field will be lock-ins (with respect to fitness) for anyone. Dawson as a rookie may not have full support however he's been recruited as a replacement for Hudghton when he finishes so it is a must that Dawson is given the nod while Max is out. It helps that O'Loughlin is injured as Dawson's opponent will probably only be Heath Grundy.

Picking the final four for the bench gets a little harder.
I've drawn a line through L.Fisher and A.McQualter for round one due to the fact that Sydney just doesn't have anyone worthy of specifically negating.

Gwilt was very ordinary towards the end of last season. He is extremely slow both in mind and pace.

Jones could get a look in due to the fact that he gets the ball and actually has genuine pace. However I still don't favor playing him plainly due to his skills.

Lynch from reports has been promising as a third tall. I'm very tempted to have him rotating off the bench however against Sydney another tall isn't as vital. Give him a few games at center half forward for Sandringham and give him a shot in the seniors by round 5.

By the looks of it Ross is determined to go back to giving both King and Gardiner about 50% gametime per match. So therefore Gardiner takes one spot on the bench.

So that leaves Begley, X.Clarke, Steven and Geary as players pushing for those last three spots. I've gone with the latter three basically due to their better preseason numbers. If Clarke has any fitness doubts then I'd have no hesitation in bringing in Begley (or if you must, Jones).



I have Baker on McVeigh. Whether Baker follows him when he goes onball I'm not sure. We will need a small defender to take the likes of Moore and Jack when they go forward.

Sam Fisher on O'Keefe. If Fisher needs to be freed up then send Gilbert back onto ROK and bring in Lynch (or Gwilt) to play as third tall.

It would be very entertaining to see Goddard go head to head with Goodes. Lets hope these two get physical because I know who would win hands down.

Finally our on ball rotation consists of: Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo, Goddard, Ray, Gram, Montagna, X.Clarke, J.Steven and Baker as a tagger.

I hate the idea of picking sides in advance and especially in positions but i reckon you have named 3 Saints players that will not play and that will make a huge difference to how we will go.

[Bernard Shakey]

X played a bit.......looked very slow

Over to you Bernard :wink:

Thanks ohwhenthesaints, I'll reserve judgement until after training on Monday.

[St. Luke]

Port Adelaide 5.3 11.7 14.8 17.11 (113)
St Kilda 2.2 2.3 7.5 9.5 (59)

I hope we're still experimenting....but in all honesty, why take a practice match like this with any degree of seriousness?? Why would players risk injury so close to the season proper. It means NOTHING! ZIP!

Looking forward to the family day tomorrow!

[bobmurray]

Port Adelaide 5.3 11.7 14.8 17.11 (113)
St Kilda 2.2 2.3 7.5 9.5 (59)

I hope we're still experimenting....but in all honesty, why take a practice match like this with any degree of seriousness?? Why would players risk injury so close to the season proper. It means NOTHING! ZIP!

Looking forward to the family day tomorrow!

I'm looking forward to Kosi negating any cause for criticism...

[To the top]

Where the problem is with Koschitzke is expectation.

The expectation that he is a full forward and/or a ruckman is misplaced.

He does not play as a full forward, quick to read and quick to present on the lead but also capable of contesting. Look at how Gehrig played full forward. And how he could be negated, which he was in numerous games.

At 197cm he is not a ruckman.

I just have a view that the skills he has lend him to CHF because he can make his own contests, particularly marking, in more space than the confines and attention at full forward - and Riewoldt would be a better option at full forward except we can not park our best player there.

Riewoldt will need to contribute and lead wherever in 2009.

With Koschitzke at CHF we would need some genuine pace and incision at ground level - including defensive - and that is where Milne and Schnieder are under pressure.

Neither are quick and incisive footballers.

They do not have the "aboriginal traits" so magnificently on display accross the competition - and St Kilda miss out in this area.

And the fact that the "small forwards" in the competition have these traits in so many sides puts pressure on Baker also.

Not meaning to be negative but the game has changed.

[JABBER]

B G Ayres G Southby Jezza
Hb Doull G Jakovich F Bourke
C K Greig R Harvey R Flower
Hf G Ablett (Snr) B Quinlan P Daicos
F W Johnstone Plugger J Dunstall
R S Madden M Tuck B Cable
I P Kelly D Jarman J Hird G Wangerneen

[Teflon]

Where the problem is with Koschitzke is expectation.

The expectation that he is a full forward and/or a ruckman is misplaced.

He does not play as a full forward, quick to read and quick to present on the lead but also capable of contesting. Look at how Gehrig played full forward. And how he could be negated, which he was in numerous games.

At 197cm he is not a ruckman.

I just have a view that the skills he has lend him to CHF because he can make his own contests, particularly marking, in more space than the confines and attention at full forward - and Riewoldt would be a better option at full forward except we can not park our best player there.

Riewoldt will need to contribute and lead wherever in 2009.

With Koschitzke at CHF we would need some genuine pace and incision at ground level - including defensive - and that is where Milne and Schnieder are under pressure.

Neither are quick and incisive footballers.

They do not have the "aboriginal traits" so magnificently on display accross the competition - and St Kilda miss out in this area.

And the fact that the "small forwards" in the competition have these traits in so many sides puts pressure on Baker also.

Not meaning to be negative but the game has changed.

Fair points re Kozi.

I thinks its worth giving him some time at CHF and Riewoldt would be far more dangerous to the opposition closer to goal than roaming round on a wing (who says he cant play up the ground on other occasions)

Worth a shot.

Its also why I think a Goddard/Dal Santo off a hff with this set up is far more dangerous - you get guys with good footskills in dangerous positions that can actually hurt and opposition and if need be kick through/over a flood.IMO watching Dal chip out a dinky side kick from FB is a waste.

[saint66au]

Its also why I think a Goddard/Dal Santo off a hff with this set up is far more dangerous - you get guys with good footskills in dangerous positions that can actually hurt and opposition and if need be kick through/over a flood.IMO watching Dal chip out a dinky side kick from FB is a waste.

Its still happening in the praccy matches so far

Oh and agree with your points..we arent flush with blokes who can kick properly..gotta make full use of the ones who can...and I think you just named all of them above

[Teflon]

Its also why I think a Goddard/Dal Santo off a hff with this set up is far more dangerous - you get guys with good footskills in dangerous positions that can actually hurt and opposition and if need be kick through/over a flood.IMO watching Dal chip out a dinky side kick from FB is a waste.

Its still happening in the praccy matches so far

Oh and agree with your points..we arent flush with blokes who can kick properly..gotta make full use of the ones who can...and I think you just named all of them above

Yep footskill recrujiting over recent years hurts I reckon - its why Id rather recruit footballers than super athletes that cant kick.

I recall Yabby Jeans talking about Dal Santo and how hed play him forward of the footy - makes sense to me. Why allow, when we play Geelong say, a Ling to go deep in his own forward line (when he is a good mark and was a jnr forward) and force Dal Santo to play a completely negating role which doesnt utilise his own weapons?

Id rather Dal Santo get 10 kicks in our fwd 50 - than 20 in defence. At least Id know that even if half those 10 kicks were effective (and hes better than that) we'd probably be getting a decent shot on goal.

[Shaggy]

Its also why I think a Goddard/Dal Santo off a hff with this set up is far more dangerous - you get guys with good footskills in dangerous positions that can actually hurt and opposition and if need be kick through/over a flood.IMO watching Dal chip out a dinky side kick from FB is a waste.

Its still happening in the praccy matches so far

Oh and agree with your points..we arent flush with blokes who can kick properly..gotta make full use of the ones who can...and I think you just named all of them above

Yep footskill recrujiting over recent years hurts I reckon - its why Id rather recruit footballers than super athletes that cant kick.

I recall Yabby Jeans talking about Dal Santo and how hed play him forward of the footy - makes sense to me. Why allow, when we play Geelong say, a Ling to go deep in his own forward line (when he is a good mark and was a jnr forward) and force Dal Santo to play a completely negating role which doesnt utilise his own weapons?

Id rather Dal Santo get 10 kicks in our fwd 50 - than 20 in defence. At least Id know that even if half those 10 kicks were effective (and hes better than that) we'd probably be getting a decent shot on goal.

So attack sometimes works? Finally we agree

[Teflon]

Its also why I think a Goddard/Dal Santo off a hff with this set up is far more dangerous - you get guys with good footskills in dangerous positions that can actually hurt and opposition and if need be kick through/over a flood.IMO watching Dal chip out a dinky side kick from FB is a waste.

Its still happening in the praccy matches so far

Oh and agree with your points..we arent flush with blokes who can kick properly..gotta make full use of the ones who can...and I think you just named all of them above

Yep footskill recrujiting over recent years hurts I reckon - its why Id rather recruit footballers than super athletes that cant kick.

I recall Yabby Jeans talking about Dal Santo and how hed play him forward of the footy - makes sense to me. Why allow, when we play Geelong say, a Ling to go deep in his own forward line (when he is a good mark and was a jnr forward) and force Dal Santo to play a completely negating role which doesnt utilise his own weapons?

Id rather Dal Santo get 10 kicks in our fwd 50 - than 20 in defence. At least Id know that even if half those 10 kicks were effective (and hes better than that) we'd probably be getting a decent shot on goal.

So attack sometimes works? Finally we agree

Id argue you need an attack at any time?

That said, an "attack" with no defensive side is headed for disaster....and one small query on Dal I do have up forward is.....can he consistently apply the necessary fwd pressure we so desperately need to keep the ball in there? especially when so many attacks are now driven out of defence.

Id hope so.