Difference this year to last!

[Sainter_Dad]

I know that everyone in the media is questioning the strength of St Kilda and will they be able to avenge the thumpings that we received in last years final series. A previous thread even highlighted that we are considered the 'Bi-polar Saints'.

There is one glaring difference though!

This year we are playing finals football every single week. Week in Week out - we are playing the best team for that week - Teams are trying to hurt us - They are spending weeks planning for us - they are exhausting themselves trying to break us - so far we have weathered the storm.

This year - unlike previous years - we are battle hardened - we are ready - that 'One day in September' will in fact be no different from the previous 24 or 25 games (hopefully 24). We are facing finals football every single week - and the boys are accepting of the fact that whilst it is only 4 points - they are hard earned.

They will go into the fourth stage of the conciousness competence ladder:

1.Unconscious incompetence
The individual or team neither understands or knows how to do something, nor recognizes the deficit or has a desire to address it.

2.Conscious incompetence
Though the individual or team does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, without yet addressing it.

3.Conscious competence
The individual or team understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires a great deal of consciousness or concentration.

4.Unconscious competence
The individual or team has had so much practice with a skill that it becomes "second nature" and can be performed easily (often without concentrating too deeply). He or she may or may not be able teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

Last year we were at Stage 3 - We knew how to win - but we had to plan and concentrate on it to do so - Now we are at Stage 4 and winning is becoming a habit.

This year we are on level or higher footing than the top 4 and so deserve our place - not struggling to get there. In truth - Round 9 last year - St Kilda sitting 10th and 4 - 5 and 91.80% who would have ever dreamed of 15-0 and 167.25% 14 months later

[chook23]

I know that everyone in the media is questioning the strength of St Kilda and will they be able to avenge the thumpings that we received in last years final series. A previous thread even highlighted that we are considered the 'Bi-polar Saints'.

There is one glaring difference though!

This year we are playing finals football every single week. Week in Week out - we are playing the best team for that week - Teams are trying to hurt us - They are spending weeks planning for us - they are exhausting themselves trying to break us - so far we have weathered the storm.

This year - unlike previous years - we are battle hardened - we are ready - that 'One day in September' will in fact be no different from the previous 24 or 25 games (hopefully 24). We are facing finals football every single week - and the boys are accepting of the fact that whilst it is only 4 points - they are hard earned.

They will go into the fourth stage of the conciousness competence ladder:

1.Unconscious incompetence
The individual or team neither understands or knows how to do something, nor recognizes the deficit or has a desire to address it.

2.Conscious incompetence
Though the individual or team does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, without yet addressing it.

3.Conscious competence
The individual or team understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires a great deal of consciousness or concentration.

4.Unconscious competence
The individual or team has had so much practice with a skill that it becomes "second nature" and can be performed easily (often without concentrating too deeply). He or she may or may not be able teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

Last year we were at Stage 3 - We knew how to win - but we had to plan and concentrate on it to do so - Now we are at Stage 4 and winning is becoming a habit.

This year we are on level or higher footing than the top 4 and so deserve our place - not struggling to get there. In truth - Round 9 last year - St Kilda sitting 10th and 4 - 5 and 91.80% who would have ever dreamed of 15-0 and 167.25% 14 months later

The heat/expectation in the GF would be way up on norm HA

other than St.k/Gee

understand where you are coming from

many in this group are finals hardened but many have yet to feel that heat of a GF

hope the finals experience/maturity allows us to handle it if we get there.

[ausfatcat]

Conscious competence



Are you a VET trainer???

[Dis Believer]

There's a lot in what Sainter Dad says. That competence model used to get used in a lot of business and sales training.

1. You're crap, but know so little that you don't realise you're crap.

2. You're still crap, but you've learned enough to realise that you're crap.

3. You've learned and trained enough to be good, but you need to work hard to maintain the level.

4. You've developed to that point that skills and good habits are ingrained and automatic, you're good without having to think about it. If you concentrate and try, you can be great.

As for the analysis year on year, there is a different mentality and approach. In my early forties I can honestly say I have never seen our team this good and this focussed. I was getting an inkling after 4 rounds that this could be a special year. Things going our way (injuries/suspension), great pklayer development, and the great realisation that we have never have such an even spread of the workload across our TEAM.

Look at our back 6. Close to the stingiest in the history of the game and yet there is the rejected Dawson and at least 2 players (Blake, Baker) whom, if we had delisted them prior to the start of last season, would have quite possibly not been picked up, for free, by another team.

That is the difference this year, synergy. the sum of that parts is greater than it's combined values. Almost no individual player is irreplaceable, (some notable exceptions of course).

[Batnoe]

I was telling my girlfriend the other day

How much i hate rugby league and how dumb most of their players are.

AFL is a different breed and are a lot smarter, but i have also noticed a lot of saints speak very well and must be very smart. So the difference is having smart players.
I actually think that a lot of our winning comes from mental strength and smarts. They know they cant lower their colours and they have a lot of mental strength- hence why Ross picks players that play to the game plan, they now know it, the ones that are in and if you are dumb you will not get a game.

It always seems like they know there will be ap erson in the corridor, or while they are being tackled to pass it off behind you as you know where a player will be.

[saintsRrising]

SD..while that is in part true...and was discussed long and hard a while back when Rodgerfox brought up what he termed as "muscle memory" and I then chimed in with your explanation...


...the bigger change to be is that the enitire team is now on-board the bus that Roo called for at the 2007 B+F, but which many failed to board until Dal and Milne were dropped.

That is the playing group is now 100% committed to the gameplan and the required work-rate.

ie knowing what to do is one thing...being willing to do it is quite another.


It is this aspect that normally sets aside the successful individual team or individual.

Training etc all play a part including as you point out roles becoming automatic....but all count for naught unless each and every individual is committed to success and willing to work through pain to achieve it.

[GrumpyOne]

The difference is that we are on top of the ladder undefeated this year.

Simple.

[Sainter_Dad]

what I actually meant is : Why we win be a different team in the finals this year - as opposed to last year limping in against 'The big Three' This year we ARE a big fish in a big sea!

[White Winmar]

If you believe one of the "experts on success", Gladwell, he proposes that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to master a skill. In his book, "Outliers", Gladwell gives numerous examples of so-called geniuses, who in fact mastered their area of expertise through sheer grind, hard work and repetition. Sounds a bit like the Lyon method.

The other interesting analogy I've come across relating to Lyon is the "Pyramid" of effectiveness. The broad base of the pyramid is made up of thousands of small, but significant acts that are the basis of success, but are generally unnoticed or undervalued. The middle of the pyramid is made up of strategy and tactics. They must be learned and applied but are useless if the basic foundation acts are not in place. The tip of the pyramid is flair and unusual skill level. Necessary to ice the cake occasionally, and can win you a game every so often, but in the vast majority of cases will not deliver victory, especially when the other aspects are missing. I think that analogy elegantly sums up RL's and his team's methods. Keep grinding away Saints!

[Dis Believer]

If you believe one of the "experts on success", Gladwell, he proposes that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to master a skill.

The number I have heard out forward a lot is 7000 hours - a long long time either way !!

That's why I spend up to 6 hours at night on guitar practise.

(Pity I still suck ).

[White Winmar]

20 hours a week for 10 years according to our expert. As "digger" from Collingwood used to say, "That's a very, very long time!"

[Zed]

IMHO the reasons we are playing so well are:

(1) Fit and healthy squad. I cant recall the last time we had so few players on the injured list and most of our top 10 players (except Max) have played nearly every game. It makes a big difference - compare Hawthorn injury riddled this year vs mostly fit last year.
(2) everyone is committed to and fully understands RL's game plan and what is expected of them

People say you cant use injuries as an excuse but the top 5 teams are so even that injuries do play a major factor

[saint patrick]

People say you cant use injuries as an excuse but the top 5 teams are so even that injuries do play a major factor

Who are these people and why the frick can't you use this an excuse...

2 or 3 key injuries will decide who wins this years flag.

...not an an excuse

a freaking reason...got it

[VietNam_Saint]

When you read Inkersaints "The Year of the Saint" , it goes a long way to tell us where we are this year.

I read somewhere about our training services and soft tissue management attitude had changed. The team obviously worked really hard in the off-season , you only had to look at them when they walked out this year.
Attitude seems like everything ,, these guys are focused.

[aussiejones]

We are still not playing our best game yet ......as we were early in the year.

Ok its been a long season and other teams rise up to meet the saints each week.

We turned it on in the final qtr last week on a day they were exhausted but will that be enough come September ?