Do we drop Kosi

[Milan Faletic]

He played like a defeated man.

His second efforts were ordinary and he didn't show desperation.

I could list so many specific occasions where if he just followed his opponent (No 40 for Carlton) on defensive rebound he may well have been able to tackle him.

The whole team was down but we can't build a forward line with Kosi as the key target and clearly RL knows that.

Setanta's forward work made Kosi look very pedestrian in our forward line.

If we don't drop him, we need to add some supporting forwards like Stanley, or Heyne or Lynch or even two of those guys.

I would look seriously at Schneider too. I'm sick of his acting and ducking of his head to get free kicks.

There's nothing wrong with getting a hiding like that. It might just be the wake up call we need.

Tonight was Carlton's GF and ironically we scored the same score as the GF.

McEvoy must come in.

[3rd generation saint]

Kosi needs a support forward until Roo come back.
Kosi is the crash and bash forward, not the lead up man, he does is best aerial work when he can run and jump at the ball.
Right now he is getting the besdt defender, and with our gameplan, this leaves him exposed to more than one opponent when the ball comes in.
I think next week we either have to give Stanley a go, or play Goddard as a permanent forward.
Kosi and McEvoy can rotate through the forward line, interchange and ruck.

[bigcarl]

no. banish him from the forward line altogether. drop king and use kosi as second ruck.

[SainterK]

I defend Kosi often, he tends to be the sole whipping boy on nights when many could be singled out.

I don't think he should be dropped, I think he needs support though.

Don't really care who, but please, not someone from the backline this week....the shuffling of players is starting to impact our stability IMO.

[Bernard Shakey]

I defend Kosi often, he tends to be the sole whipping boy on nights when many could be singled out.

I don't think he should be dropped, I think he needs support though.

Don't really care who, but please, not someone from the backline this week....the shuffling of players is starting to impact our stability IMO.

He's not the sole whipping boy tonight, he's got half a dozen mates, but this was one of his more inept performances. For a big man he sure gets out positioned and goes to ground too easily.

You want support for him, but not from the backline. He's a big boy and shouldn't need support. He should stand up for himself and the team , but seems incapable of doing so.

Should have been traded at the end of '08 when he had some value, I'm afraid he's worthless now.

[Con Gorozidis]

dunno what game u were watching? kosi was asked to play ff and chf and did his best.

our midfield was SMASHED. MURDERED. dal and monty did not get a sniff all night. and AS USUAL any team with fast small forwards made us look silly.

remember harbrow? lovett (before we recruited him), the 3 indiginous guys at carlton MURDERED US. remember travis varcoe in the final quarter of the GF?

watch courtney dempsey give it to us next week.

we have awesome players. but they are all plodders. no geniune pace.
we get CUT UP by pace.

but kosi? hes fine. no issues.

[SainterK]

dunno what game u were watching? kosi was asked to play ff and chf and did his best.

our midfield was SMASHED. MURDERED. dal and monty did not get a sniff all night. and AS USUAL any team with fast small forwards made us look silly.

remember harbrow? lovett (before we recruited him), the 3 indiginous guys at carlton MURDERED US. remember travis varcoe in the final quarter of the GF?

watch courtney dempsey give it to us next week.

we have awesome players. but they are all plodders. no geniune pace.
we get CUT UP by pace.

but kosi? hes fine. no issues.

Bingo, and if people expect him to do that, coupled with running up and down the ground, then providing multiple leads, then they expect more than Kosi is capable of giving.

He is not a sole forward, he needs genuine support, and I don't mean rotating defenders through there.

We have had multiple players try to play in our forward line without Roo with little success, why is Kosi the exception, and expected to his fill his shoes?

Because he is tall? Because that is about where the similarities between Roo and Kosi begin and end.

Where is Tom Lynch, is he close?

Someone that can keep the defenders honest...

[Banger724]

dunno what game u were watching? kosi was asked to play ff and chf and did his best.

our midfield was SMASHED. MURDERED. dal and monty did not get a sniff all night. and AS USUAL any team with fast small forwards made us look silly.

remember harbrow? lovett (before we recruited him), the 3 indiginous guys at carlton MURDERED US. remember travis varcoe in the final quarter of the GF?

watch courtney dempsey give it to us next week.

we have awesome players. but they are all plodders. no geniune pace.
we get CUT UP by pace.

but kosi? hes fine. no issues.

Agree. Delivery to the big fella didn't look fantastic on a lot of occassions either..

Dropping him and replacing him with one of the kids, IE Stanley, only means the opposition will focus all their attention on the young kid which won't work either, need to bring someone in to SUPPORT Kosi, not REPLACE him

[Duggie]

Huge call and I said earlier tonight he will continue to play but he cant kick a goal what is the point. i think he will hold on but he really has had enough chances.

All I recall is that when he did hold a mark there were ironic cheers from so-called Saints supporters (maybe with a few opposition thrown in). It showed me how fragile Sainters can be.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

It was very difficult on him last night, as they had two loose around him (at least in the first quarter, when we were just bombing it in there to him), so he was mostly up against 3 of them. And he did take a couple of good marks during the game, and the kicking to him was also not great.
But he is clearly low in confidence and seems to have the world on his shoulders. For that reason (and because King's time seems well up) I'd play him in the ruck a lot more, to try and get him to run off his frustrations. It would also mean that when he pushes forward, which he does so well, he'll either be on his own (if his opponent hasn't kept up with him), or just be one out, which would surely help him to grab a couple. And that may be all he needs to turn it around. He's also probably just as likely to kick goals playing in the ruck as he is at the moment playing full forward. Plus he would give us a lot more than King is around the ground.
I don't think leaving him out is the best answer, or giving him bronx-cheers. For some (like if they're not putting in) that stuff would work, but he is the sort of guy who'd run through a brick wall for us, so he'd already be busting a gut to turn it around. He's more likely to need encouragement.
As hard as it may be, I believe the best way for us to help is to get right off his back and support him, otherwise he'll never turn it around. He's not as strong as he used to be, so everyone on his back will most liekly break him and that won't help our cause. We could do with him being there and doing well.
You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.

[spert]

It's pretty simple to me -Kosi is hopelessly out of form and needs a spell at Sandy. His main strength is his big marking -a great asset in a forward line, but, it's gone and so is he sadly so lets stop making excuses.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

honestly yes Kosi is out of form at the moment and yes he isnt giving us anything but as a decoy allone he does have some value ... coachs know that if Kosi switches it on he can destroy teams so they will always send their best defender and often a second defender to keep him quiet ... if we drop kosi that double teaming will go to someone like BJ or Gilbo and in all honestly i would rather no output from Kosi and output from BJ and Gilbo then not output from kosi cause his at sandy and BJ output lessend

[spert]

honestly yes Kosi is out of form at the moment and yes he isnt giving us anything but as a decoy allone he does have some value ... coachs know that if Kosi switches it on he can destroy teams so they will always send their best defender and often a second defender to keep him quiet ... if we drop kosi that double teaming will go to someone like BJ or Gilbo and in all honestly i would rather no output from Kosi and output from BJ and Gilbo then not output from kosi cause his at sandy and BJ output lessend

He shouldn't be a decoy player, that's for second string players, he should be a key go-to player, and really it's no good being a decoy if no one else is kicking goals or at least taking a contested mark for a shot at goal. He had the marking power last year and kicked goals, now it's all gone, so it's a bit ominous.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

honestly yes Kosi is out of form at the moment and yes he isnt giving us anything but as a decoy allone he does have some value ... coachs know that if Kosi switches it on he can destroy teams so they will always send their best defender and often a second defender to keep him quiet ... if we drop kosi that double teaming will go to someone like BJ or Gilbo and in all honestly i would rather no output from Kosi and output from BJ and Gilbo then not output from kosi cause his at sandy and BJ output lessend

He shouldn't be a decoy player, that's for second string players, he should be a key go-to player, and really it's no good being a decoy if no one else is kicking goals or at least taking a contested mark for a shot at goal. He had the marking power last year and kicked goals, now it's all gone, so it's a bit ominous.

last year he also had Roo taking most of the heat ... last year he also had clean delivery into the forward line ... last year he wasnt expected to be the main focus .....

as for second string players as decoys if you were a coach would you play two defenders on Stanley or on Kosi ??

[The_Merchant]

Kosi is such an easy target for people to have a go at when we lose. He was far from disgraced last night. Yes he got knocked out of the contest a bit too easily on occasion, but have a look at the delivery into those contests. Every one of the contests that he got beaten in, the kick into our forward line favored the defender. I felt sorry for him, he would lead left and the kick would go behind him to his right, what do you expect him to do.
Scrutiny needs to be on the midfield and backline after last nights effort, the forward line is an easy target because we can just say we would have been okay with roo. If Roo was playing we might have lost by 8 goals instead of 10 but we had far bigger problems that our permanent forwards. Wait for next week before we get too far ahead of ourselves, a renewed effort in the midfield can make a huge difference.

[saintjake]

we dont want a "bash and crash foward"
it doesnt work, name one foward that only "bashes and crashes" packs
look at all the foward lines, the fowards get out in front of their opponets and mark on a lead, i didnt see this happen at all last night, and havnt seen it from Kosi very consistanly at all.

[SaintTom]

I don't think dropping Kosi is the answer. Yes his goal scoring is down on last year, but that's because Roo often took the best defender. This year, Kosi gets their number one defender, and they can even chuck an extra defender on him if need be.

You can't bring in every rookie on our list like some people are suggesting, but I think Stanley is probably the best option. (I read on afl.com.au that Ross said that he'd look at either Mac or Stanley seeing as King is out, so he seems to be thinking along similar lines). Two tall targets is important, because with only one, every team knows what we're going to do. Kick it to the big fella, or bomb it over the back to Milne. Realistically, it takes three defenders to stop that comfortably, and teams have six. Another tall forward like Stanley will give other teams something to think about, and might improve Kosi's chances of getting the ball in front of goal even if Stanley himself doesn't get it a whole lot. Goddard isn't the answer either, that only works if the rest of our midfield is firing, otherwise he's too valuable further up the ground.

I also think that Peake needs to come in next week. Essendon aren't as good as Carlton, but their leg speed has a good chance of exposing us. He wasn't setting the world alight in his first few games, but he was far from terrible.

[degruch]

Lets face it, he's not going to be dropped. How do we support him/who do we put up forward with him? Given he is two up in a competition about 75% of the time, is one of our young leading forwards (Lynch, Stanley, Cahill) a chance along with a rotated BJ? Or do we fight fire with fire and load up on small forwards (adding Heyne or Smith to Schnieder, Steven, Milne)?

[sunsaint]

I dont know whether to be amused or confused by the support for Kosi.
People he has kicked 3.4 for the year. END of story...and people say Ball was getting an over-inflated pay cheque.
Oh yes he got rubbed out, but put in perspective, he's ranked 138th this year for goals, John Anthony has played two games for Collingwood kicked the same amount and he cant get a game.

And as for people claiming delivery to Kosi was poor. Zac in ONE quarter presented more and marked more than Kosi in three quarters(he just didnt goal) I find it hard to believe that collectively our on-ballers suddenly improved their passing effectiveness just as Zac went down there.

the way I see it, if RL hasnt dropped Kosi so far, I cant see him suddenly changeing his mind. He does not drop his stars lightly (twice in RL's career backs that up)

but for me, Vote 1 Big Ben

[Saints43]

Kosi shouldn't be judged on last nights performance at all.

We didn't get the ball out of the centre all night. The midfield (including rucks who should be making opp talls accountable) were a disgrace.

When the ball comes in a reasonable fashion, reasonably often then I'll start kicking the forwards for not performing. They have the hardest job on the field.

[Leo.J]

Kosi Stays in IMO.

McEvoy comes in for King.

We have a 3 way rotation.

We start with Gardiner in the ruck, Mac and Kosi as our tall forwards.

After 10 or so minutes Mac goes in the ruck, Gardiner spends 5 on the Pine, then comes back on and plays as tall forward.

Then for the last 5 - 10 minutes of the quarter (red time) Kosi rucks.

Mac can rest on the bench or paly a tall forward.

When one of these guys are off the ground, rest a mid in the forward line.

This then makes us more unpredictable in our forward line and in the ruck...and it can give our mids a chance to shake a tag.

[plugger66]

Kosi Stays in IMO.

McEvoy comes in for King.

We have a 3 way rotation.

We start with Gardiner in the ruck, Mac and Kosi as our tall forwards.

After 10 or so minutes Mac goes in the ruck, Gardiner spends 5 on the Pine, then comes back on and plays as tall forward.

Then for the last 5 - 10 minutes of the quarter (red time) Kosi rucks.

Mac can rest on the bench or paly a tall forward.

When one of these guys are off the ground, rest a mid in the forward line.

This then makes us more unpredictable in our forward line and in the ruck...and it can give our mids a chance to shake a tag.

If they are going to play a ruck forward then Stanley plays. MG and big Ben arent forwards. The ball comes out to easily.

[Leo.J]

...And as for people claiming delivery to Kosi was poor. Zac in ONE quarter presented more and marked more than Kosi in three quarters(he just didnt goal) I find it hard to believe that collectively our on-ballers suddenly improved their passing effectiveness just as Zac went down there...

The heat was off the game, the Blues were 10 goals up by that stage.

Our delivery inside 50 was terrible for most of the game, that makes it really hard for a player of Kosi's type to get a kick.

Had Kosi had the Delivery that Waite got in the first quarter he probably would have kicked 4 also.

[Leo.J]

Kosi Stays in IMO.

McEvoy comes in for King.

We have a 3 way rotation.

We start with Gardiner in the ruck, Mac and Kosi as our tall forwards.

After 10 or so minutes Mac goes in the ruck, Gardiner spends 5 on the Pine, then comes back on and plays as tall forward.

Then for the last 5 - 10 minutes of the quarter (red time) Kosi rucks.

Mac can rest on the bench or paly a tall forward.

When one of these guys are off the ground, rest a mid in the forward line.

This then makes us more unpredictable in our forward line and in the ruck...and it can give our mids a chance to shake a tag.

If they are going to play a ruck forward then Stanley plays. MG and big Ben arent forwards. The ball comes out to easily.

It Does if your delivery inside 50 is crap like last night. If your midfeild can get on top it may not.

[BallBanger]

What a joke of a thead! Do we drop him??

Imagine if Raph (or McQualter) played 10 pathetic games in a row and the uproar it would cause!
Yet this guy doesn't have to earn a call up...just waltzes in and does nothing since before the finals LAST YEAR..and now peole question his place in the side....

Strange, i was thinking if Dal played as many average games as mcQualter/Ralph/Geary/Gwilt/Schneider etc....no, would not be allowed be dropped first