Will Archie be true to his word?

[Juggernaut]

I've posted this link before however Archie promised that in a 6 to 8 week period getting something going. Times up next week Archie on the promise, give us something positive for a change or even just lets us know something. I havn't seen anything positve from the administration for a long time now. I suspect that we won't be hearing anything for a long time now with a board challenge imminent

http://www.moorabbingleneiraleader.com. ... _news.html
A DECISION on where the St Kilda Football Club will build its new elite training centre will be made within two months, Saints chief executive Archie Fraser has revealed.

Mr Fraser said the club had asked Kingston Council what they intended to do to keep the Saints at Moorabbin Reserve.
``We want the elite training facility and now it's up to them to tell us what they are prepared to do,'' he said.
``We're interested in finding out what their expectation of a new deal is.''
Mr Fraser said he wasn't interested in dragging out the issue any further.
``We looking at a six to eight week period to get something going,'' he said.
``We don't want this to go for months or even years.
``It's a reasonable time frame which involves putting forward a funding proposal to the State Government and the AFL.''
Negotiations about the $16.5 million redevelopment of the Linton St training ground with Kingston Council broke down last month. The Saints executive have touted Port Melbourne's Teac Oval, St Kilda's Junction Oval and Cranbourne's Casey Fields as possible alternatives.
Mr Fraser denied the club was engaging the Kingston, Casey and Port Phillip councils in a bidding war.
``There isn't a list of demands. We're still interested in finding out which proposal would benefit the Saints the most and more importantly into the future,'' he said.
But Kingston chief executive John Nevins said the council had already made it clear to the Saints what their offer was.
``It's up to the club to decide what they will do and when they will do it,'' Mr Nevins said.
``The council's offer is there for all to see. It is now up to St Kilda. We are waiting to hear what their decision is.''

[JeffDunne]

What concerns me is that we'll now do a deal for all the wrong reasons.

[Saint Bev]

Personally I think people should just get off their backs and let them get on with the job instead of the constant criticism. It would seem that everything they do is wrong. This site is becoming very negative again.

[SAINTLY73]

The talks and potential move with all the potential councils have as predicted not provided any other option other than to stay at Moorabbin. I think Archie believed there would be a bidding war from other prospective councils and there wasn't.

Whats made it more interesting is the fact Archie stopped communication with Kingston council and now it will be about sweet talking to get things moving again after all the abuse aimed at the council. Some very poor negotiating skills have made a mess of the thing and burnt some very important bridges.

My insider tells me that council will be forcing their hand to make a decision sooner rather than later based on some new documents being brought to the table (The condition of the grandstands and buildings and a demolition order). If this isn't played correctly this could cost the club over a $1m and the responsibility legally is on them.

[Joffa Burns]

Personally I think people should just get off their backs and let them get on with the job instead of the constant criticism. It would seem that everything they do is wrong. This site is becoming very negative again.

If the club had secured an elite training facility and infrastructure this post would not be in place.

I think it is well justified.

Nice info SAINTLY73, seems reasonable.

[casey scorp]

I'm not sure what will happen to watering training ovals when Stage 4 water restrictions come in next year (despite all the rain we have had, we are about 8% lower than at the same time last year).

Casey Fields will become a venue used by a number of clubs because of its drought-free status (uses A-grade treated recycled water). St Kilda will be one of many.

There will no doubt be community feeling develop against beautifully maintained and watered training grounds which use potable water. With no end in sight to the debacle at Linton Street in terms of redevelopment, there is a risk that St Kilda will end up training at Casey Fields but without elite facilties.

[ausfatcat]

I'm not sure what will happen to watering training ovals when Stage 4 water restrictions come in next year (despite all the rain we have had, we are about 8% lower than at the same time last year).

Casey Fields will become a venue used by a number of clubs because of its drought-free status (uses A-grade treated recycled water). St Kilda will be one of many.

There will no doubt be community feeling develop against beautifully maintained and watered training grounds which use potable water. With no end in sight to the debacle at Linton Street in terms of redevelopment, there is a risk that St Kilda will end up training at Casey Fields but without elite facilties.

AFL clubs get exceptions I believe something to do with them being a business or something.

[SAINTLY73]

I admire your enthusiasm caseyscorp but the deal didn't happen at Casey or anywhere else for that matter.
Even Kingston council knew that the club was getting nowhere and knows they will have to negotiate with them even though they really don't want them anymore after the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent setting it all up and the bad publicity they got for it all.
Kingston is willing/was to put up to $1.5m into it and no one was willing to beat it.
I think Casey would be a great location as you have made it clear since it all began. I believe it is the poor negotiating skills and foresight that is now unravelling. John Gdansky has been a major player in this debacle and is also one of the board members not being mentioned in all the turmoil at the moment. His name will be thrown around a bit I believe as the RB removal speeds up.

[ausfatcat]

I admire your enthusiasm caseyscorp but the deal didn't happen at Casey or anywhere else for that matter.
Even Kingston council knew that the club was getting nowhere and knows they will have to negotiate with them even though they really don't want them anymore after the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent setting it all up and the bad publicity they got for it all.
Kingston is willing/was to put up to $1.5m into it and no one was willing to beat it.
I think Casey would be a great location as you have made it clear since it all began. I believe it is the poor negotiating skills and foresight that is now unravelling. John Gdansky has been a major player in this debacle and is also one of the board members not being mentioned in all the turmoil at the moment. His name will be thrown around a bit I believe as the RB removal speeds up.

you forget to mention that money from kingston was to purely pull down grandstand and if the saints were to move they wouldn't do that anyway so in effect it was zero dollars. Just wait and see on this issue it's something that could be behind closed doors happenings still active with a few other councils.

About gdansky you could be the best negoiator in the world but that still doesn't mean you would get any where.

[JeffDunne]

About gdansky you could be the best negoiator in the world but that still doesn't mean you would get any where.

[ausfatcat]

not saying he is the best negotiator i don't know, what I was trying to say was if they really don't want to negotiate to benefit the saints they wont no matter who is speaking to them.

[JeffDunne]

It was the contradiction rather than the suggestion of him being the world's best negotiator that raised my eyebrows.

If the council are so recalcitrant why are wasting our time?

[SAINTLY73]

ausfatcat, the wheeling and dealing with other councils haven't produced anything. NO OTHER COUNCIL WANTS THE SAINTS. You'll see in the next few weeks as the spin makes Moorabbin "The spiritual home" the most amazing place and everything else is forgotten including the words 'we're outta here.
The grandstand removal was under a mil and the rest would somehow be attributed to "community benefit" in the facilities. I think this apsect will be further scrutinized. Anyway it is quite possible that the grandstand removal could be put on the club as they own them. Remember the writedown a few years ago in the Annual report? I wouldn't be expecting favours now for burnt local b'crats and Topsy Turvy.

[casey scorp]

ausfatcat, the wheeling and dealing with other councils haven't produced anything. NO OTHER COUNCIL WANTS THE SAINTS.

I recall:

* the Mayor of Casey being very keen (front page of the local paper wearing a St Kilda jumper)
* Frankston Council stepping into the debate just a few weeks ago saying they were keen to accomodate the Saints.

[JeffDunne]

While this has little to do directly with the topic, these stat's probably help reinforce the number of St Kilda fans that are centred around Cranny.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=st+kilda&ctab=0

[plugger66]

I think you find there will be an annoucement soon that we are staying at our great Moorabbin site.

[Oh When the Saints]

I don't care where we are frankly.

The playing group are being held back by the lack of an elite training and recovery facility.

It was promised four years ago, and nothing has happened.


That's not good enough from the board.

Unless they produce a detailed and convincing plan outlining the future of the club in terms of a training facility, then I won't be inclined to support them.

[luckysaint]

They will probably delay any announcement until the challengers come out of obscurity. Typical politics.

Alternatively they could be at square 1.

I like to think it's the former.

[SENsei]

If SAINTLY73 is correct in his information above, then the only thing that comes to mind is "keystone cops' buffoonry.

We have a CEO who clearly did not have a clue in the market that he was operating. Over played the worth of St Kilda to other councils and hinged his media campaign to get them to roll over.

Sounds like Topsy is too smart for our Arch.

[HarveysDeciple]

I don't care where we are frankly.

The playing group are being held back by the lack of an elite training and recovery facility.

It was promised four years ago, and nothing has happened.


That's not good enough from the board.

Unless they produce a detailed and convincing plan outlining the future of the club in terms of a training facility, then I won't be inclined to support them.

Absolutely.
Whilst the pies train at the lexcus centre and interstate teams lap it up with their million dollar facilities we are training in a below par environment (par being competition standards). even the roos and doggies are getting these huge upgrades.
It should be the number one priority of any st.kilda board, no good just making million dollar profits, I'd rather break even if all the profits went into the football department.

[saint66au]

I don't care where we are frankly.

The playing group are being held back by the lack of an elite training and recovery facility.

It was promised four years ago, and nothing has happened.


That's not good enough from the board.

Unless they produce a detailed and convincing plan outlining the future of the club in terms of a training facility, then I won't be inclined to support them.

Absolutely.
Whilst the pies train at the lexcus centre and interstate teams lap it up with their million dollar facilities we are training in a below par environment (par being competition standards). even the roos and doggies are getting these huge upgrades.
It should be the number one priority of any st.kilda board, no good just making million dollar profits, I'd rather break even if all the profits went into the football department.

Totally agree 100%

If any progress on the players facilities is used as a pawn for a present or future Board's political games, I will be unspeakably angry.

I really dont care if our pokies are housed in a group of ATCO huts in a Red Rooster carpark, I want to see some progress on the PLAYERS facilities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[casey scorp]

I've posted this link before however Archie promised that in a 6 to 8 week period getting something going. Times up next week Archie on the promise, give us something positive for a change or even just lets us know something. I havn't seen anything positve from the administration for a long time now. I suspect that we won't be hearing anything for a long time now with a board challenge imminent.

I'm not sure how you expect AF to deliver anything when the Board is dysfunctional. Remember, it is the Board which makes the key decisions, and it is the President who is the front man in announcing those decisions. The CEO provides strategic advice to the Board, implements its decisions and keeps the ship on an even keel heading in the corporate direction.

But we have a dysfunctional Board, and its getting worse. Governance is breaking down.

Today's Herald Sun is a classic example. RB says he thinks we'll stay at Moorabbin, but it will be a Board decision. Why make a statement when the Board hasn't made a decision. The Board has obviously been considering the matter over the past few months, would have a holding position until further consideration, and it wouldn't be "I think we'll stay at Moorabbin". A President should be able to be more circumspect when the situation requires it - not say the first thing that jumps to his mind.

RB has a habit of shooting from the hip. More considered thought is required.

There seems to be some momentum building in recognition of the need to improve corporate governance at St Kilda FC.

Lets hope that it happens soon, quickly and cleanly.

[Juggernaut]

What s..ts me with the whole thing is this time last year the club innundated us all pleading for us all to make submissions to the council on behalf of the club supporting the re-development. emails week after week and letters. I followed thru and sent a submission through.
I'm not the only one who would have followed through and did what was asked. The administrators have let us all down, especially the players, and have not done what was required of them
We all want the best facilities for our current players and to attract new potential players. Start of pre-season at the filth is orientation at the lexus centre getting to know where the spa is, the ice baths, canteen, etc at the Saints they put a paint brush in your hand (builds character you know) its not great advertisement for the club when the facilities are 4th class

saint66au I agree with you all the way, my anger over this sorry episode is building buy the week as we endure more silence from the club. and I'm sorry but RB saying there will be some good news soon on the subject doesn't cut it

[Brian Collis]

Should the title of the thread read "Will Archie be true to his sword"

[The Peanut]

Should the title of the thread read "Will Archie be true to his sword"

I think we will find that the problems with the council issue and elite training centre doesn't lie at AF's door, not sure about the Vodafone one, a disfunctional board has held the club back for quite some time - there was bound to be a spill, finals or not - the picture will be a little clearer in a day or three.