Are we alone? Anyone looked at the ladder?

[thejiggingsaint]

We lose a game (admittedly in a dire manner ) and the world and their dog has us washed-up I don't know about anyone else but the last time I looked we were still in the eight. NOW....if I were following Port Adelaide, or West Coast I'd have a concern or two
A win this satdee and we are back on track! how does the cliche` go?...Oh yeah I remember "its early days"

[riccardo]

I think its just because we are always overrated at the start of the year by the media idiots, the same one who declare us dead and buried when we inevitably lose a game.

No team in over 100 years has gone through undefeated, even the mighty Geelong sat mid table in R 5 last year.

I agree, jiggster, we can do it!

[The_Dud]

its not the results that are worrying, its the way we're playing

try looking deeper than the results

[spert]

So if we won lots of low-scoring games, got into the finals and won a flag in a low-scoring game, we would tear up our memberships and sack Lyon???

[meher baba]

So if we won lots of low-scoring games, got into the finals and won a flag in a low-scoring game, we would tear up our memberships and sack Lyon???

No, but we lost a relatively high-scoring game on Friday, so the relevance of your post is............?

[thejiggingsaint]

I'm not so worried about results OR the way we're playing AT THIS STAGE OF THE SEASON Dud. The world was acclaiming Adelaide and West Coast this time last year and we all knew that the (eventual) premiers were in a state of complete turmoil
I'm trying to make the point that while we need to be conscious of the performances one loss is not going to be catastrophic if we can learn from it and get the mix right. I for one am prepared to back the coach and board and give 'em my total support until we are done!

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I can see where those asking why so much concern are coming from. A conservative approach like that is normally very in tune with me.

However, other than a quarter against Carlton, and a quarter against the Swans, I haven't been terribly convinced by the '08 Saints yet since the Richmond game - where we beat a nearly full strength Richmond convincingly short 7 regulars.

Through the NAB cup, on one hand we seemed to take the game pretty casually, with prioities other than the win, and yet ended up winning... 3 games by less than a goal against opposition that also had priorities other than the win.

Sydney drew us back after 1/4 time, and imposed their game on us.
Carlton we drew back with an awesome 2nd after a woeful first, but the main lesson was that Carlton's backline is woeful - I already knew that.
The Bulldogs smashed us after quarter time.

On the balance, I don't think it's out of line to be concerned... we're 2 and 1 by the grace of 2 points against Sydney, it's nice that the ladder isn't a problem... yet... but unless there's some rapid improvement, it's going to be in a couple of weeks.

[NeXuss]

We lose a game (admittedly in a dire manner ) and the world and their dog has us washed-up I don't know about anyone else but the last time I looked we were still in the eight. NOW....if I were following Port Adelaide, or West Coast I'd have a concern or two
A win this satdee and we are back on track! how does the cliche` go?...Oh yeah I remember "its early days"

When St.kilda lost to Hawthorn in 1998 after leading by 63 points in the second quarter, it took us 3 years to shake off the scars. Every team knew that no matter how far behind they were at half time they could still win. Week after week we were smashed in the 3rd quarter.

I'm not saying that the Doggies game is as bad as that but potentially it could hurt our team for the rest of this season if we don't turn it around very quickly.

[The_Dud]

I'm not so worried about results OR the way we're playing AT THIS STAGE OF THE SEASON Dud. The world was acclaiming Adelaide and West Coast this time last year and we all knew that the (eventual) premiers were in a state of complete turmoil
I'm trying to make the point that while we need to be conscious of the performances one loss is not going to be catastrophic if we can learn from it and get the mix right. I for one am prepared to back the coach and board and give 'em my total support until we are done!

i would be the happiest supporter in the world if we did a Geelong, and after struggling in the early couple of rounds, came out and started playing with an awesome attacking gameplan (thats why they're winning, the team isn't that good, its the gameplan) but not one thing i have seen from Ross shows that he is open to this kind of gameplan

if we continue along the current lines, yes we will beat a few teams, and might finish in the 8, but we would never be a serious threat for the flag, and all the good teams will know this

[thejiggingsaint]

Fair comment (in the context of the 1998 season, when there were so many things wrong from top-to-bottom at the club) IF we adopt the mantra of "BUILD from victory..LEARN from defeat" then I see us being able to come back again this season (we did it in 2005 when SO many "experts" were saying similar things to now)
I hope to be proved right come September
Regards
Dave

[GrumpyOne]

if we continue along the current lines, yes we will beat a few teams, and might finish in the 8, but we would never be a serious threat for the flag, and all the good teams will know this

I remember some bloke saying that about Sydney in their premiership year.

What was his name again?

[NeXuss]

if we continue along the current lines, yes we will beat a few teams, and might finish in the 8, but we would never be a serious threat for the flag, and all the good teams will know this

I remember some bloke saying that about Sydney in their premiership year.

What was his name again?

That's true, but the game has changed 100% since then. We need to go back to an attacking frame of mind if we are to challenge Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn. If we continue to play Sydney style we will not make the top 8.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

if we continue along the current lines, yes we will beat a few teams, and might finish in the 8, but we would never be a serious threat for the flag, and all the good teams will know this

I remember some bloke saying that about Sydney in their premiership year.

What was his name again?

That's true, but the game has changed 100% since then. We need to go back to an attacking frame of mind if we are to challenge Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn. If we continue to play Sydney style we will not make the top 8.

I might just say that one of my main hopes that still burns pretty brightly for the Saints is that I don't believe the game has changed as much in the last 5 years as the media likes to make out.

The main changes?
- hands in the back
- strictness around tackling
- no holding after a mark.

I recently watched the Lions 3 GFs again (my partner is a Lions fan), and you know what? Their method really wasn't that different to Geelong's. A couple of tactical differences, a little less focus on fleet fotedness from HB, and a little more on inflicting pain, but horses for courses, the running onto the ball, the tackling in numbers, there's a pretty strong resemblance.

While Sydney/West Coast gets the press for obvious reasons, Sydney's gameplan was devised while Brisbane and Port were on top of the ladder, and around defeating Brisbane... and as famous as the close Sydney/West Coast games have come, before that it was close Sydney/Brisbane games - we just didn't hear as much of it down here because Sydney didn't rate a mention after all Brisbane, Port, Essendon, Adelaide and Collingwood. West Coast's handball happy gameplan in no small part was played to beat the 3/4 press which Sydney circa 2005/6 excecuted better than anyone.

Defensive footy can win just fine IMO, but just as attacking footy has to be played well to win a premiership, so does defensive footy. The difference is when you see defensive footy played poorly, you get Saints-Sydney R1, when attacking footy is played even by average teams, you get Carlton-Essendon R5, and it's much easier to be positive after losing a game 150-130 than 50-30.

[NeXuss]

I would rather lose 150 to 130 than 50 - 30. At least we can say we went down fighting and our players gained some confidence. This low scoring tight contest is crap. We have 3 huge targets in our forward line and we should take full advantage of that.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I would rather lose 150 to 130 than 50 - 30. At least we can say we went down fighting and our players gained some confidence. This low scoring tight contest is crap. We have 3 huge targets in our forward line and we should take full advantage of that.

I'd also rather lose 150-130 than 50-30, my point is that I don't think defensive footy is redundant.

[NeXuss]

I would rather lose 150 to 130 than 50 - 30. At least we can say we went down fighting and our players gained some confidence. This low scoring tight contest is crap. We have 3 huge targets in our forward line and we should take full advantage of that.

I'd also rather lose 150-130 than 50-30, my point is that I don't think defensive footy is redundant.

Rubbish...just go and ask Geelong FC and they will tell you if defensive footy is redundant or not.

[sunsaint]

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhh
yes all teams lose games in season, yes geelong lost a few early games.
But we are not geelong, & no we're not sydney, we are StKilda.
And with that comes all the foibles that our history as a club holds.
I have seen elements of laziness creep into our game.
And it played out for all to see against the dogs. A club that had no right to even contemplate beating us, given our past record against them and the strength of our side on the nght.
The fact is every game is important, & good sides dont lose games they are expected to win. And we better not look back at the end of the year (like we did last year) and be short a couple of percentage points for a home final or worse a place in the eight.