Blooded Players

[Bernard Shakey]

Anyone see On The Couch tonight?

Lions have blooded 28 players in the last 3 years.

Saints have blooded the least, 9.

We are going backwards at a furious rate.

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

Good thread. It is critical to get the first 30-40 games into younger players. Never forget the Hawthorn sides of the 80's. They had many a player who had been running around in the ressies for years. Richard Loveridge was one. It was a legacy/trait of a successful Parkin/Jeans coaching era.

[rexy]

Yet people still say McEvoy is not ready, Steven is not ready, Allen is not ready?

We cant have it both ways!

[Teflon]

Anyone see On The Couch tonight?

Lions have blooded 28 players in the last 3 years.

Saints have blooded the least, 9.

We are going backwards at a furious rate.

Thats a startling figure but pays absolutely NO context to what we have supposedly been challenging for (a Premiership) in the last 3 yrs while Brisbane have been rebuilding. Our numbers still to small but it would be interesting to compare us to say Geelong?

[Solar]

add to this that we chop and change the young players. Good teams that are developing their talent seem to give a bloke 4-5 weeks to learn to step up a level. Geary was impressive in the NAB cup, played well in the first couple of weeks but has not got a look in. Raph is being thrown everywhere and not supported by club or supporters. Time to give Allen some game time over charlie gardiner, who refuses to attack the goals.

We have some seconds players who are young, attacking and in form. We need to start blooding them and allow them time in one position to learn.

[Iceman234]

Anyone see On The Couch tonight?

Lions have blooded 28 players in the last 3 years.

Saints have blooded the least, 9.

We are going backwards at a furious rate.

Thats a startling figure but pays absolutely NO context to what we have supposedly been challenging for (a Premiership) in the last 3 yrs while Brisbane have been rebuilding. Our numbers still to small but it would be interesting to compare us to say Geelong?

I think (only from a very declining memory) both the Cats and Hawks were in the low 20's.

Someone up at midnight might be able to clarify it.

[mad saint guy]

While challenging for a flag only 2 or so per year would be fine, and we were right in the mix in '04 and '05. However it is worrying that even now when we are a long way off being a contender and we still aren't blooding young players.

Howard and Sweeney both did play last year, but that was because there was absolutely no one else. Sweeney did well but seemed to be destined for the scrap heap from the start of the year, while Howard had about half an hour of game time for the year.

Armo last year and Geary this year have been the only new players who have been given any chance to prove themselves.

[evertonfc]

Yet people still say McEvoy is not ready, Steven is not ready, Allen is not ready?

We cant have it both ways!

Play them, play them, play them.

How Lyon prefers defensive negaters (read: unskilled players who can't have a positive impact in their own right) over new blood remains a mystery in his coaching.

[saintsRrising]

No rocket science to it.....

We used to ignore rookies (the Lions by the way were allowed extra rookies...is it 9??? per year). We went with minimal numbers and then ignored them.

....and the earlier regime traded away many first and second round selections = those more likely to end up playing.

And both regimes have aquired players that have been at other clubs = less youth.

[saintsRrising]

Yet people still say McEvoy is not ready, Steven is not ready, Allen is not ready?

We cant have it both ways!

Play them, play them, play them.

How Lyon prefers defensive negaters (read: unskilled players who can't have a positive impact in their own right) over new blood remains a mystery in his coaching.

McEvoy is a ruckmen...and Allen a big forward..I fail to see how any of them is competing with Dempster, L Fisher etc....

Now Steven, CJ etc are...but not the above two.

[Teflon]

While challenging for a flag only 2 or so per year would be fine, and we were right in the mix in '04 and '05. However it is worrying that even now when we are a long way off being a contender and we still aren't blooding young players.

Howard and Sweeney both did play last year, but that was because there was absolutely no one else. Sweeney did well but seemed to be destined for the scrap heap from the start of the year, while Howard had about half an hour of game time for the year.

Armo last year and Geary this year have been the only new players who have been given any chance to prove themselves.

Dont quite get your logic......again...bit like your "Allan Murray is a sign of development cause he played 1 good game post.."

We are talking about blooding players under Lyon yeah?

A coach who is 1 yr and 8 games into his tenure. A coach who when he took over was right to consider us a Premiership shot - last year AND thIs year (most experts had us top 4 in 08 FFS) AND STILL people wonder why we have not perhaps started the flood of youth?

[evertonfc]

McEvoy is a ruckmen...and allena big forward..I fail to see how any of them is competing with Dempster, L Fisher etc....

Now Steven, CJ etc are...but not the above two.

What? Who says you always go player for player?

Are we that pathetic that we are now resorting to like-for-like only deals?

Gehrig out. Allen in. Different types of players.
Blake out. McEvoy in. Different types of players.
R Clarke out. Geary in. Different types of players.
Dempster out. Steven in. Different types of players.

Let's boost our run. Let's boost our verve. Let's get unpredictable; let's have a team that makes things happen, not one that merely tries to stop the opposition. Let's get out there and shake things up.

And hell, we might find a youngster or two. Youngsters. Remember them?

[saintsRrising]

Now lets see what RL has planned for our near future in terms of young talent...:

Ruck = McEvoy

Mids = Armo, Steven..... Geary

Key Forward = Allen

Then a number that may make it such as Miles, Eljay, Jones etc...

Plus 3 NSW Scholarship players.....of which the young Murphys hasa very god pedigree...

Compared to the immediate period just prior where we gained just Gilbert.

[Bernard Shakey]

Last 3 years, not just Lyon.

We had massive injuries the last 2 years and still didn't blood new players.
Patched up the team with hacks who were never going to make it.
We are paying dearly now.

Seems to me we have shown the same logic as the Shockers. Felt we were premiership material and only recruited experienced players to fill gaps.

[saintsRrising]

McEvoy is a ruckmen...and allena big forward..I fail to see how any of them is competing with Dempster, L Fisher etc....

Now Steven, CJ etc are...but not the above two.

What? Who says you always go player for player?

Are we that pathetic that we are now resorting to like-for-like only deals?

Gehrig out. Allen in. Different types of players.
Blake out. McEvoy in. Different types of players.
R Clarke out. Geary in. Different types of players.
Dempster out. Steven in. Different types of players.

Let's boost our run. Let's boost our verve. Let's get unpredictable; let's have a team that makes things happen, not one that merely tries to stop the opposition. Let's get out there and shake things up.

And hell, we might find a youngster or two. Youngsters. Remember them?

You said Lyon prefered negators.

GTrain is a not a negators.

You would play all of McEvoy , King, Kosi and Gardiner???


Raph out....sorry I did not realise that he was a defensive negator. He is meant to be an attacking running back...but has not delivered.


At least Lyon does have some young talent coming through...and by the end of the season more players will have been blooded.

[savatage]

McEvoy is a ruckmen...and allena big forward..I fail to see how any of them is competing with Dempster, L Fisher etc....

Now Steven, CJ etc are...but not the above two.

What? Who says you always go player for player?

Are we that pathetic that we are now resorting to like-for-like only deals?

Gehrig out. Allen in. Different types of players.
Blake out. McEvoy in. Different types of players.
R Clarke out. Geary in. Different types of players.
Dempster out. Steven in. Different types of players.

Let's boost our run. Let's boost our verve. Let's get unpredictable; let's have a team that makes things happen, not one that merely tries to stop the opposition. Let's get out there and shake things up.

And hell, we might find a youngster or two. Youngsters. Remember them?

Agreed 400%. What the f*** do we have to lose?

[saintsRrising]

Last 3 years, not just Lyon.

We had massive injuries the last 2 years and still didn't blood new players.
Patched up the team with hacks who were never going to make it.
We are paying dearly now.

Seems to me we have shown the same logic as the Shockers. Felt we were premiership material and only recruited experienced players to fill gaps.

I would esimate that if you do the exerise again at the end of 2009...that you will have a higher number than 9.

[evertonfc]

McEvoy is a ruckmen...and allena big forward..I fail to see how any of them is competing with Dempster, L Fisher etc....

Now Steven, CJ etc are...but not the above two.

What? Who says you always go player for player?

Are we that pathetic that we are now resorting to like-for-like only deals?

Gehrig out. Allen in. Different types of players.
Blake out. McEvoy in. Different types of players.
R Clarke out. Geary in. Different types of players.
Dempster out. Steven in. Different types of players.

Let's boost our run. Let's boost our verve. Let's get unpredictable; let's have a team that makes things happen, not one that merely tries to stop the opposition. Let's get out there and shake things up.

And hell, we might find a youngster or two. Youngsters. Remember them?

Agreed 400%. What the f*** do we have to lose?

8th spot on the ladder - which Lyon reckons he needs to keep his job.

If he showed some bottle he'd back himself, announce he's going with the kids and say we're going to find out everything about our kids....

He'd get some real support from the fans. The fans don't want half-baked 'we made September!' success - a first week exit does screw all.

Let's get fair dinkum and play the kids. Let's find some ****ing talent before it's too late. And if it is too late, at least we're playing kids, and moving onto the next stage.

I've had enough of this patch-it-up-with-an-average-player-approach. I'm over it. It's not working.

[saintsRrising]

I don't see the need to panic by bringing in all 4 at once.

Gtrain will I imagine not play next week...and so one big kid will come in.
I would not see the need for two.

And I personally would prefer Geary to Raph...and have done so fora while.

[saintsRrising]

The Peanut wrote this on WOM..

The Peanut doesn't have a lot of footy smarts and there are many 'hard core' supporters who have a depth of football knowledge that I could only dream of, and there are others who can quote statistics that leave me amazed to say the least. Nevertheless, I too have an opinion on how we are tracking - just going by observations, reading the rubbish we are fed by the media and my gut-feeling. More ...


We started the season with the media telling us that St Kilda was destined to be a ripe finals contender, where this view came from is a mystery to me considering we didn't do well last year and also the various distractions the club underwent since our new coaching staff arrived. Our 'new coach' is only in the early part of his second year in a senior role and is surrounded by such a newly established footy department they would be lucky to know too much more than each others names, compared to some other AFL coaching groups.

Ross Lyon has come from a wealthy club that appears not only to have plenty of money and an established list in a stable environment both on and off the field, but minimal media attention and a marriage made in heaven with the AFL.

I believe that it has taken Ross Lyon some time to acclimatise himself with many aspects of the nuts and bolts of our 'struggling' club off the field. Through what I believe to be 'underlying' club and supporter pressure RL focussed on helped us to win the 2008 Pre-season cup, knowing by then that every dollar counts at St Kilda and some good news around the place would be handy for everyone ... and memberships. However, he probably wasted a few opportunities to use the pre-season in the same way he was accustomed to in Sydney.

It appears that the list is slowly coming together in a way that RL perceives it should be to challenge the flag. His planned quality tap-outs to advantage has probably been a little slower that he expected but he did start off with very few mature ruckmen on the market and was forced to be a little adaptive and take a few recruiting risks. The rucking department is now slowly coming along but there have been disruptions and it takes time for the whole team thing to gel as well.

Last week we saw our intensity improve and although we only beat a side that isn't considered 'five star', Richmond didn't look half bad to me in that match. So I was feeling pretty good with the win in round 7, as our passion generally appeared to be higher.

The rucking department on Friday night performed reasonably well and gave the midfielders some opportunities and in many cases they took them and even kicked a few goals. The spark seemed to be alight and I thought we took another step forward in round 8. I believe the workrate has lifted but we need some consistency and increased confidence to move further ahead.

As we all know the forward structure looked pretty good on paper at the start of the season and we were licking our lips and preparing ourselves for 'big bags', however, it just hasn't worked well at all. Whether it's solely due to poor or unsuitable delivery or the basic structure is damn hard to pinpoint.

Getting the forwards firing is now one of Ross Lyon's key challenges and although Kosi isn't an 'A' grade ruckman he seems to more dangerous around the ground when carrying out that role. With Roo back in this week it should provide us with a rounder structure and hopefully RL and his staff have some constructive ideas that can help us increase our goal count.

Even if we lose at the Gabba, as long as I can see some improvement in the team I will take a small loss and move on, as there is plenty of time left in the season if we keep improving. Although the older bodies are prone to injury they are also battle hardened for the pointy end of the season.

Of course it's ok to bring in some leg speed and give the youngsters who are ready some game time, but we haven't lost the battle and I won't be throwing in the towel just yet, in fact, for the sake of Robert Harvey's limited chance of winning a flag I will be holding onto my chair with both hands until the end is nigh.

[mad saint guy]

Dont quite get your logic......again...bit like your "Allan Murray is a sign of development cause he played 1 good game post.."

That was referring to our history of finding players and giving them a chance to prove themselves in the seniors. Murray came into the side and showed that he had the talent to make it. Unfortunately he didn't have the attitude and once injuries kicked in he was gone. But he was given every reasonable opportunity to prove himself.

We are talking about blooding players under Lyon yeah?

Yeah

A coach who is 1 yr and 8 games into his tenure. A coach who when he took over was right to consider us a Premiership shot - last year AND thIs year (most experts had us top 4 in 08 FFS) AND STILL people wonder why we have not perhaps started the flood of youth?

What does that have to do with playing hacks who can't get the ball or kick it ahead of young players with talent who are tearing it up in the reserves?

Good teams these days are constantly bringing new players into the team. Often when there are older players who are performing better than them in the reserves, but the kids get preference because they aren't a known quantity. In the past year and a half Geelong have been the dominant side of the competition, yet they have managed to blood Selwood, Hawkins, Stokes, Varcoe, Taylor, West, Mumford and Gamble. I'm sure they are much happier playing them than Gardiner, Playfair, Callan, D.Johnson, Tenace or Byrnes. Those kids started off as nothing and now 5 of them are in the best 22 of the best side in the comp.

I'm sure Collingwood don't regret blooding Brown, Clarke, Goldsack, Reid, Dick, Wellingham, Stanley, Cook, Cox, Anthony, Iles and Toovey in the past two years. They give every draftee a chance in the seniors early on and if they're good enough they stay in the side. And it certainly hasn't hurt them, having kids in the team.

If a young player is strong enough to break through a Jason Gram tackle and has the skill set to make an impact in the seniors then there is no reason for us not to play them right now. We're not going anywhere this year and it isn't like we've got 22 strong contributors every week.

[saintsRrising]

with talent who are tearing it up in the reserves?

.

Out of interest...exactly how many Casey games have you watched this year?

[saintsRrising]

I am all for blooding new talent...but do not see the need to do it all in one week.

[ratismeat]

From memory the Age had us turning over 8 players in the last two years, same as Sydney and 2 less than Geelong. Not sure this is such an important stat

[CURLY]

Surly if your drafting is good enough the need for constant change and blooding . Once Hawthorn have there side settled they would hope to maybe introduce 1 maybe 2 per year for 5 years as there team grows and develops. For argument sake if we had no injuries and Penny Jones and Hamill didnt retire Black didnt return to Freo and Brooks and Watts delivered. How many new players would we need or had to play? Beveridge drafted a strong core of players who are 23 -25 now so barring injury his good recruiting doesnt always mean turnover.