Where is the improvement going to come from?

[saintly_safes]

Just wanting to know what you posters think are going to be the big pluses that will ensure we can be a "genuine" premiership contender this year. I'm really finding it hard to see where the improvement will come from to bridge the gap on the top 3 or even cement ourselves in the 8.I dont want this post to become a sledging session but I would really like to see your veiws of where we are at & how we can get to the next level with our current group of players.cheers " go sainters"

[Armoooo]

The midfield...

In the finals we were missing Ball and had an unfit Hayes running about, chuck those two into the midfield along with Gram and Goddard and we are looking pretty good.

Begley and Raph can play off the back flanks with Fisher playing loose and a fit Max and Maguire would really help our key stocks...

The continued development of our younger players will also play a huge role as we will have quite a bit of youth coming in and out of our 22 IMO...

The key factor IMO is that the list has had another year of fiddling by RL, IMO he has a blueprint of the team he is aiming for and struggled to build his gameplan around a team built for another style...

Another year under Misson and Co. will give the boys more run and allow them to continue to overrun the opponents etc.

The Harvey factor could go either way, the team could go down hill due to his missing prescence and ability to hit a target or they could improve due to less pressure to perform for him and less media coverage about the 'fairy tale' that never was...

IMO Hayes, Riewoldt, Goddard, Fisher, Gram, Milne and Montagna will give you the same stuff week in week out, the question is whether or not Schneider, Dal and some youngsters can get the consistency required to contribue and whether Baker, Maguire, Hudghton, King and Gardiner will be able to get out on the ground...

[S.A Saint]

In response to that i believe that these players need to take the next step.....

BJ if he can play midfield and tear it up it will help us a lot
Ball needs to go up a notch emulate mitchell or someone
Armo if he could have a selwood type season
C.Clarke to continue his good form from finals
X.Clarke need to get on the park and have a solid year
Gilbert Needs to keep improving
Schneider to kick 10 or so more goals
Dal to regain his 06 from

If these players can improve and the rest of the team stayed the same as this season i reckon we are a good chance...imho i don't think we are that far off just need 3 or 4 players to have a break out year who have been struggling a bit.

[sax]

C.Clarke to continue his good form from finals

Who's C. Clarke?

[Armoooo]

C.Clarke to continue his good form from finals

Who's C. Clarke?

It's pretty hard to judge tone online so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a joke...

[WayneJudson42]

The question is where... or if?

We need to sort out our fwd line 1st and foremost.

As for the improvement, it may not be so much as players improving... although that will be a part of it. Hopefully Gilbo and Raph can continue, and Gwilt maybe. I reckon Gwilt will come under pressure from the new recuits as well as a return by players from injury.

Armo will be abonus, and I'd like to think that Dal and Kosi can go the next level.

The bottom line as I see it is the options we now have with Begley and Ray. If both can cement a spot and Dempster gets back, then all of a sudden, guys like Gram, Fosher and BJ become midfield options.

This in turn takes the heat off Dal and Joey.

Bottom line: I reckon depth will be the key. If our recent recruits fromt he last 2 years can hold their spot, we can finally put our "playmekers" in positions where they can be more effective. That in itself would = 20% improvement.

[bigcarl]

We need to sort out our fwd line 1st and foremost.

agree. whether we can kick enough goals to match free-scoring teams like hawthorn, geelong and the dogs is a concern.

If our recent recruits fromt he last 2 years can hold their spot, we can finally put our "playmakers" in positions where they can be more effective. That in itself would be 20% improvement.

if it means guys such as bj, fisher and gram can be freed up to play where they can hurt the opposition most, we're on our way.

that includes the forward line btw.

[WayneJudson42]

We need to sort out our fwd line 1st and foremost.

agree. whether we can kick enough goals to match free-scoring teams like hawthorn, geelong and the dogs is a concern.

If our recent recruits fromt he last 2 years can hold their spot, we can finally put our "playmakers" in positions where they can be more effective. That in itself would be 20% improvement.

if it means guys such as bj, fisher and gram can be freed up to play where they can hurt the opposition most, we're on our way.

that includes the forward line btw.

I was about to reply when your post dissapeared. I assume you edited it?

I was about to replythe same. As far as goals go, if Scneids can kick 30, then some mids kick another 20... big difference.

I honestly don't think we're as bad as some make us out to be.

Interesting news from training about players being leaner, which suggests a more attacking and running game.

[onlooker]

If we are going to be 'genuine' contenders in 09 the improvement must come from those players behind our top echolon group. I understand what others have said about Ball and Dal but these two understand what's got to happen for them to regain their previous impact on the game; its the group behind them that's got to provide the lift. The lift has to be through the midfield and I am not sure who in that 2nd echelon group is there to do it. I don't want discuss individual players who have to provide the lift but I believe this second group has the intensity to contest the hard ball, its the pace and skill level I will be watching to see how we stack up against Geelong and H'thorn in 09. As for BJ in the mid my personal view is that he is more value to the team out of the crush. You need Haye's type reflexes to be in the crush and make a success of it.

[Zed]

If we are going to be 'genuine' contenders in 09 the improvement must come from those players behind our top echolon group. I understand what others have said about Ball and Dal but these two understand what's got to happen for them to regain their previous impact on the game; its the group behind them that's got to provide the lift. The lift has to be through the midfield and I am not sure who in that 2nd echelon group is there to do it. I don't want discuss individual players who have to provide the lift but I believe this second group has the intensity to contest the hard ball, its the pace and skill level I will be watching to see how we stack up against Geelong and H'thorn in 09. As for BJ in the mid my personal view is that he is more value to the team out of the crush. You need Haye's type reflexes to be in the crush and make a success of it.

correct - you wont get much more out of Ball. Reiwoldt , Hayes etc as they already give 110% .. the key is for the next group down to hurt the opposition as much as possible - this may even mean that tags etc get relieved from the top echelon allowing them to become more effective.

Agree the fitness coach will have had another year to work with the group.

Will be interesting to see if Gram & BJ spend more time in the midfield and if the clark boys can stay fit and on the park. I'm hopefull that young Jack Steven will burst onto the scene and Gilbo takes the next step as well.

[WayneJudson42]

If we are going to be 'genuine' contenders in 09 the improvement must come from those players behind our top echolon group. I understand what others have said about Ball and Dal but these two understand what's got to happen for them to regain their previous impact on the game; its the group behind them that's got to provide the lift. The lift has to be through the midfield and I am not sure who in that 2nd echelon group is there to do it. I don't want discuss individual players who have to provide the lift but I believe this second group has the intensity to contest the hard ball, its the pace and skill level I will be watching to see how we stack up against Geelong and H'thorn in 09. As for BJ in the mid my personal view is that he is more value to the team out of the crush. You need Haye's type reflexes to be in the crush and make a success of it.

correct - you wont get much more out of Ball. Reiwoldt , Hayes etc as they already give 110% .. the key is for the next group down to hurt the opposition as much as possible - this may even mean that tags etc get relieved from the top echelon allowing them to become more effective.

Agree the fitness coach will have had another year to work with the group.

Will be interesting to see if Gram & BJ spend more time in the midfield and if the clark boys can stay fit and on the park. I'm hopefull that young Jack Steven will burst onto the scene and Gilbo takes the next step as well.

Dude, it's Clarke with an "e".

For a minute there, I though you said "dark" boys. An was about to unload.

[bobmurray]

I'm still not conviced we have the cattle to make a serious tilt at the flag..

We have players on our list that wouldn't give our opponents strategists too much concern....

you can't win a flag with plodders......

you can't win a flag with a 1 or 2 man forward line..

you can't win a flag with a midfield that doesn't kick many goals...

you can't win a flag with players that have poor disposal......

[WayneJudson42]

I'm still not conviced we have the cattle to make a serious tilt at the flag..

We have players on our list that wouldn't give our opponents strategists too much concern....

you can't win a flag with plodders......

you can't win a flag with a 1 or 2 man forward line..

you can't win a flag with a midfield that doesn't kick many goals...

you can't win a flag with players that have poor disposal......

So what are you trying to say?

[bobmurray]

I'm still not conviced we have the cattle to make a serious tilt at the flag..

We have players on our list that wouldn't give our opponents strategists too much concern....

you can't win a flag with plodders......

you can't win a flag with a 1 or 2 man forward line..

you can't win a flag with a midfield that doesn't kick many goals...

you can't win a flag with players that have poor disposal......

So what are you trying to say?

I have no idea what 2009 has install for the long suffering Saints supporter

I can't get off on all this pre-season optimism...it's usually blinkered and
it always ignores the teams flaws....


One year we will prevail..maybe it will be 2009,maybe it won't...

[WayneJudson42]

I'm still not conviced we have the cattle to make a serious tilt at the flag..

We have players on our list that wouldn't give our opponents strategists too much concern....

you can't win a flag with plodders......

you can't win a flag with a 1 or 2 man forward line..

you can't win a flag with a midfield that doesn't kick many goals...

you can't win a flag with players that have poor disposal......

So what are you trying to say?

I have no idea what 2009 has install for the long suffering Saints supporter

I can't get off on all this pre-season optimism...it's usually blinkered and
it always ignores the teams flaws....


One year we will prevail..maybe it will be 2009,maybe it won't...

One would hope that the plodeders have been axed and replaced with someone of better ability.

[saint66au]

I'm still not conviced we have the cattle to make a serious tilt at the flag..

We have players on our list that wouldn't give our opponents strategists too much concern....

you can't win a flag with plodders......

you can't win a flag with a 1 or 2 man forward line..

you can't win a flag with a midfield that doesn't kick many goals...

you can't win a flag with players that have poor disposal......

So what are you trying to say?

I have no idea what 2009 has install for the long suffering Saints supporter

I can't get off on all this pre-season optimism...it's usually blinkered and
it always ignores the teams flaws....


One year we will prevail..maybe it will be 2009,maybe it won't...

Sheesh..if you cant get a bit optimistic in December, when can you??

Agree with your points, but who's to say that any of them will apply to us in 09? Its not even the end of 08!

Chin up, youll be a basket case by Round 1 otherwise

[BigMart]

X.Clarke, F.Ray, B.McEvoy, L.Fisher, S.Baker, L.Ball, R.Clarke, S.Gilbert, D.Aritage, M.Maguire, J.Steven, R.Eddy, J.Geary.......will all add more this season

[brown-coat]

In the finals we were missing Ball and had an unfit Hayes running about, chuck those two into the midfield along with Gram and Goddard and we are looking pretty good..

I have to disagree, strongly.

We'll look better than last year, but the midfield of Geelong or Hawthorn are still going to rape us back to timbucktoo.

[Armoooo]

If everything else stays as is, you're probably right, we just have to hope that Armitage can develop into a good player and the likes of Ray, Xavier etc. can also add something...

[Saints94]

If everything else stays as is, you're probably right, we just have to hope that Armitage can develop into a good player and the likes of Ray, Xavier etc. can also add something...

Xavier's goal should just to have a full pre-season and stay fit