Milne - Best small Forward in Comp?

[Saint Pete]

While he had a quite game last week I am amazed at the amount of flack the guy gets. For the past 5 or 6 years he has been at the feet of our tall forwards cleaning up the spills. Can anyone name another small forward who has consistantly kicked goals week after week like Milney has done. We need to relise his limitations and appreciate his strengths.

[saint66au]

Over the last 5 years...consistantly the best without question

This year Eddie Betts would probably be up there with him at this stage of the season.

People need to realise that all small opportunisitc forwards will get a touch greedy or get blinkered vision from time to time...theyve all done it and their teams fans go nuts about it. Its not just confined to Milney

[saintjake]

rioli easy.
by a mile.

[clarky449]

I think milne would, by how many goals kicked

[TassieJones]

Yes.

You need to differentiate though between best actual small forward and best player who plays in the forward line and isn't tall.

The latter category:
1. Steve Johnson
2. Alan Didak
3. Paul Chapman
4. Daniel Motlop
5. Paul Medhurst

etc. Milney would probably be in the top 10 just.

However as an actual small forward who is there primarily to support the tall blokes by crumbing and scoring goals Milne is second to none. He may be selfish at times but his goal kicking record speaks for itself.

[bigcarl]

However as an actual small forward who is there primarily to support the tall blokes by crumbing and scoring goals Milne is second to none. He may be selfish at times but his goal kicking record speaks for itself.

yes. his job is to put it on the board and he does it as well as any small forward in the comp.

[benengel14]

Cyril Rioli.

[Armoooo]

If Paul Chapman could still be considered a small forward no chance...

He is the best genuine crumber however...

[Loyal]

Milne - Best Small Forward in Comp?

The Toughest without question.
People just love to hate him because he's good.
If ppl didn't hate him there would be a problem.

[Loyal]

rioli easy.
by a mile.

sorry, how many goals has he kicked in his career?

[InkerSaint]

Cyril Rioli
Games in 2008 = 25
Goals kicked = 24

Stephen Milne
Games in 2008 = 24
Goals kicked = 60

Milney for mine, then Motlop, then Neon Leon.

[vacuous space]

There aren't many guys that are small and play exclusively deep these days. Right now Milne is behind LeCras, Betts and Medhurst in terms of goals, but I wouldn't take too much from that. LeCras and Medhurst play more like more key targets for their teams and take a lot more marks than Milney does. Guys like Chapman and Stokes - even Rioli - tend to push up the ground a lot more and play more as midfielders than Milne does. Milne might just be the best at what he does - kicking goals from crumbs.

[StSteven]

Question is who would you rather have in your side:

Milne or

Rioli
Chapman
Stokes
Didak
Medhurst
Johnosn S
Motlop
Betts?



and would Milne get a game at these other clubs. I doubt he would at Geelong.

[bigcarl]

milne kicked more goals than any other small forward in the competition last year and finished something like 9th in the coleman medal.

he has weaknesses like anyone, but you can't deny his worth when it comes to scoreboard pressure.

plus, he's much improved defensively.

[saintly]

Question is who would you rather have in your side:

Milne or

Rioli
Chapman
Stokes
Didak
Medhurst
Johnosn S
Motlop
Betts?



and would Milne get a game at these other clubs. I doubt he would at Geelong.

would rather have rioli. Only 19, and will get better and better!

[GrumpyOne]

Milney......... Daylight second.

[bergholt]

Question is who would you rather have in your side:

Milne or

Rioli
Chapman
Stokes
Didak
Medhurst
Johnosn S
Motlop
Betts?

i'd have milne ahead of stokes, medhurst and betts. not sure about motlop. rioli, chapman, didak and johnson all have more dimensions than milney so would be preferred in an arbitrary side.

he's great at what he does but doesn't do much else, if you get my meaning.

[spert]

I wouldn't mind knowing how Milne has done in interstate games over the last 5 years. He plays the Dome well, but his record away might be a bit ordinary??

[True Blue Sainter]

I would take Stevie Johnson out of any of the above listed players...

Didak, Chapman, Rioli and Motlop are a very tight bunch as "best of the rest". Milne is distinctly better than Betts and Stokes.

IMO, Medhurst cannot be classed as a "small" forward as he plays the lead-up role for COllingwood, and not a crumbing role like a Leon Davis or Dale Thomas

[ThePunter]

Milne actually made his debut at AAMI v Port Adelaide - Round 4, 2001. He had been elevated from the rookie list for Sean Charles.

2001

Round 4 v PA @ AAMI - 14 kicks, 3 handballs, 7 marks, 2 goals, 1 behind
Round 8 v Kan @ Man - 8 kicks, 3 handballs, 1 mark, 2 behinds
Round 12 v Fre @ Sub - 7 kicks, 2 marks, 3 goals, 1 behind (won the match with his 3 2nd half goals)
Round 14 v Bri @ Gab - 3 kicks, 1 handball
Round 18 v WC @ Sub - 6 kicks, 2 handballs, 3 marks, 2 goals, 1 behind
Round 21 v Syd @ SCG - 5 kicks, 3 handballs, 2 marks, 1 goal, 2 behinds

2002

Round 2 v Fre @ Sub - 10 kicks, 4 marks, 2 goals, 1 behind
Round 11 v Bri @ Gab - 6 kicks, 1 handball, 1 mark, 3 goals
Round 15 v Ade @ AAMI - 3 kicks, 2 handballs, 1 mark, 1 goal
Round 18 v PA @ AAMI - 6 kicks, 1 handball, 1 mark, 2 goals, 1 behind
Round 20 v Syd @ SCG - 1 kick, 3 handballs, 1 mark, 1 goal

2003

Round 3 v WC @ Sub - 3 kicks, 1 goal
Round 8 v Fre @ Sub - 8 kicks, 2 marks, 1 goal, 4 behinds
Round 12 v PA @ YP - 9 kicks, 5 handballs, 6 marks, 1 goal, 3 behinds
Round 15 v Syd @ SCG - 4 kicks, 1 handball, 2 goals
Round 17 v Ade @ AAMI - 3 kicks, 2 handballs, 2 goals

2004

Round 4 v Adel @ AAMI - 3 kicks, 1 handball, 2 marks, 1 goal
Round 7 v Fre @ Sub - 7 kicks, 1 handball, 5 marks, 3 goals
Round 11 v Syd @ SCG - 1 kick
Round 14 v PA @ YP - 2 kicks, 1 handball, 1 mark, 1 goal
PF v PA @ AAMI - 1 kick, 1 mark, 1 behind

2005

Round 1 v Bris @ Gab - 6 kicks, 2 handballs, 2 marks, 3 goals, 1 behind
Round 2 v Fre @ YP - 7 kicks, 2 handballs, 2 marks, 1 goal
Round 8 v WC @ Sub - 6 kicks, 3 marks, 3 goals, 1 behind
Round 11 v PA @ YP - 8 kicks, 7 handballs, 5 marks, 2 goals, 1 behind
Round 21 v Fre @ Sub - 6 kicks, 2 handballs, 3 marks,
QF v Ade @ AAMI - 5 kicks, 4 handballs, 1 mark, 1 goal

2006

Round 1 v WC @ Sub - 12 kicks, 1 handball, 6 marks
Round 4 v PA @ AAMI - 10 kicks, 3 handballs, 2 marks, 2 goals, 2 behinds
Round 5 v Fre @ YP - 5 kicks, 1 mark, 2 goals
Round 11 v Syd @ SCG - 7 kicks, 3 handballs, 2 behinds
Round 16 v PA @ YP - 10 kicks, 4 handballs, 5 marks, 1 goal, 1 behind
Round 20 v Fre @ Sub - 10 kicks, 3 handballs, 6 marks, 3 behinds
Round 22 v Bri @ Gab - 11 kicks, 2 handballs, 2 marks, 2 goals, 2 behinds

2007

Round 2 v Bri @ Gab - 13 kicks, 3 handballs, 7 marks, 1 goal
Round 5 v PA @ AAMI - 9 kicks, 1 handball, 3 marks, 2 goals, 1 behind
Round 9 v Fre @ Sub - 10 kicks, 1 handball, 5 marks, 1 behind
Round 12 v WC @ Sub - 10 kicks, 6 handballs, 4 marks, 2 goals
Round 17 v Syd @ ANZ - 8 kicks, 2 handballs, 4 marks, 2 goals, 1 behind

2008

Round 6 v PA @ AAMI - 9 kicks, 2 handballs, 5 marks, 1 behind
Round 9 v Bri @ Gab - 6 kicks, 4 handballs, 2 marks, 2 goals
Round 12 v Syd @ SCG - 6 kicks, 2 handballs, 3 marks, 1 goal
Round 14 v NM @ Car - 9 kicks, 2 handballs, 2 marks, 4 goals, 2 behinds, 2 Brownlow votes
Round 17 v WC @ Sub - 13 kicks, 2 handballs, 5 marks, 2 goals, 2 behinds
Round 20 v Fre @ Sub - 12 kicks, 4 handballs, 5 marks, 3 goals (played the 2nd half with one eye closed up)

2009

Round 2 v Ade @ AAMI - 10 kicks, 2 handballs, 4 marks, 1 goal, 1 behind

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Yes.

You need to differentiate though between best actual small forward and best player who plays in the forward line and isn't tall.

The latter category:
1. Steve Johnson
2. Alan Didak
3. Paul Chapman
4. Daniel Motlop
5. Paul Medhurst

etc. Milney would probably be in the top 10 just.

However as an actual small forward who is there primarily to support the tall blokes by crumbing and scoring goals Milne is second to none. He may be selfish at times but his goal kicking record speaks for itself.

By my reckoning, of the 5 guys you just listed, the only one who's a "small forward" is Motlop. The others are medium forwards and HFF (and Motlop could be lumped into HFF as well)... but (as you alluded to) therin lies the trouble with trying to pick the best small forward in the comp - defining the role.

As Vacuous Space points out above, few teams have a small who plays exclusively deep anymore. The roles available in the forward line seem to me to be:

Key Forward (Ala Reiwoldt Kosi, can be subdivided to FF and HF, but usually is only done so to try and explain an individual teams forward setup).

Mid size forward/HFF (Johnson's a mid size, and Chappy's a HFF... i.e. Chapman plays more of a midfield role pushing forward a lot, and Johnson really isn't that small, but brings a combination of midfielder and forward skills to the forward 50. On most other teams he'd probably be a midfielder - the guys who play these roles are largely interchangeable, and Rioli's clearly being moved to this role.)

Defensive small (Rioli, Alwyn Davey. These guys are still expected to show some production, but a big part of their role is chase and tackle. It allows their team to play an undermanned forward line without sacrificing forward pressure).

Crumber (Milne, Motlop - there really aren't that many of these around any more. They're there primarily to produce goals.)

While to an extent, it's the job of the modern footballer to be as widely skilled as possible, not all the players from all these roles are necessarily interchangeable.

That interchangability is probably Milne's weakness. Looking at it over 5 years, Milne's productivity is undeniable. From a sheer talent perspective, you'd want Johnson or Chapman. If you were drafting a new team, you'd take Rioli whose proven in the defensive mould, and is moving towards his eventual midfield role with his work as a HFF this year.

But if I had one game I needed to win, and I needed a productive small forward, I'd probably take Milne... provided it was in Victoria

[bigred]

lol Sean Charles. That worked well. Cheers Timwit.

Milne's results speak for themselves. Multiple fifty goal seasons.
Definsive side has been his ultimate weakness though.

But he currently provides the best value out of all the forwards listed on this thread.

Cyril Rioli indeed....Milne kicked almost three times the amount of goals last year.

[StSteven]

Great post Bam.

Milne TAKES the opportunities created by others. The attraction of many forwards today (as above) is that they CREATE the opportunities. For this reason as our game plan evolves into a greater TEAM effort I think Milney may face difficulties.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Great post Bam.

Milne TAKES the opportunities created by others. The attraction of many forwards today (as above) is that they CREATE the opportunities. For this reason as our game plan evolves into a greater TEAM effort I think Milney may face difficulties.

Thanks.

I think your view is a prevelant one given how game plans appear to be evolving. I'm not sure it's necessarily true though.

From a strategic point of view, what a Milne offers is conversion. One of the stats trotted out regularly in post-game press conferences is inside 50s. If you win the inside 50s, it generally means you've won the midfield battle. If you've won the clearances (which correlate highly to midfield goals and assists) AND the I50s, you ought be home.

However, next time you hear a coach lamenting that their team won the inside 50s and lost the game, ask yourself if they have a crumber.

Take Richmond vs St Kilda Round 7 2008, where St Kilda won by 3 and was widely viewed as having been lucky to do so. Richmond won the clearances (don't ahve exact #s), and they won the inside 50s 54 to 40. Yet for the game, they only had 2 more scoring shots, which allowed St Kilda to win via better conversion.

And - no surprise - Milne kicked 7.3 and had an assist.

It becomes horses for courses. Back to strategy, if I need to get more opportunities, I'll drop my crumber and bring in a HFF. If I've got both opportunities and conversion, then I may opt for the defensive small to allow me to bring numbers back and control the flow.If I've got my numbers covered, already got a small of any variety, I may see If I can bring in an extra tall to always have a tactical advantage... We'd all love to have a Stevie J who can do it all, but barring that...

[Thinline]

Milne's defensive work has improved out of sight as well. I firmly believe he's more than a sharp shooting crumber. He does offer an outside midfield option too. Way down the rotation list, of course, but he does go through for the odd few minutes. His field kicking (blemish minute one of Freo game excepted) is pretty handy I reckon.

But all in all it's apples and oranges.

I don't think Milne can be compared to anyone else.

Only one rat...

He either fits your structure or he doesn't. Thankfully he works with ours. Would prob do well at Hawthorn, too.