Best CHF's of all time according to the "experts"

[Milan Faletic]

Voted by Robert Walls, Luke Darcy, Malcolm Blight and Matthew Lloyd on a 5,4,3,2,1 basis.

20 Carey
13 Brown
10 Brereton
8 Kernahan
5 Riewoldt
4 Hart

Basically, the lack of premierships has kept Roo lower on the list but Walls said if the premiership count changes, he will move up the list. Still in good company.

[Statsman]

As much as I love and admire Roo, it's hard to argue with that assessment. Carey is the best I've seen and Brereton's record speaks for itself. There's not much that separates Roo from Brown and Kernahan other than premierships. If he can lead us to a flag or two, he'll certainly be rated even more highly.

[GrumpyOne]

Carey's career is over. If the poll was taken in five to ten years time, I'd be surprised if Brown wasn't level pegging with Carey.

[Moods]

Could someone please explain to me why Brereton is rated as highly as he is?

Yeah tough. Yeah he kicked 4 goals in a game that was a shootout with broken ribs. PLayed well in some big games. His career was basically over at 27 though. Played less than 200 games for the hawks.

I have never understood this rating of a players ability based on the number of flags he's played in. One's a team thing the other's an individual assessment. Cam Mooney's played in 3 flags. Does that mean he should be in this exulted company?

B&F's and AA and MVP's should be the criteria. Are they saying that if Roo played CHF for the hawks instead of Brereton in the 80's they wouldn't have won all those flags? Brereton was no where near as consistent as Roo was. He also had Dunstall (one of the very best FF ever) to take the heat off him. I saw plenty of finals when Brereton barely got a touch, and was beaten by very average footballers.ie Rod Grinter 1990 elim final. Brereton played in an era taylor made for fwds - Roo always has 2-3 players trying to cover him.

[Legendary]

I have never understood this rating of a players ability based on the number of flags he's played in. One's a team thing the other's an individual assessment. Cam Mooney's played in 3 flags. Does that mean he should be in this exulted company?

Totally agree.

Most people rate Tony Lockett as the best (or one of the best) ever to have played.

He never won a flag. Why on earth would a couple more goals to the Swans in 1996 have changed the way we view Lockett as a player?

If anything, it's a lot easier to be successful in a good team than it is to succeed in a bottom side.

[rexy]

Could someone please explain to me why Brereton is rated as highly as he is?

Yeah tough. Yeah he kicked 4 goals in a game that was a shootout with broken ribs. PLayed well in some big games. His career was basically over at 27 though. Played less than 200 games for the hawks.

I have never understood this rating of a players ability based on the number of flags he's played in. One's a team thing the other's an individual assessment. Cam Mooney's played in 3 flags. Does that mean he should be in this exulted company?

B&F's and AA and MVP's should be the criteria. Are they saying that if Roo played CHF for the hawks instead of Brereton in the 80's they wouldn't have won all those flags? Brereton was no where near as consistent as Roo was. He also had Dunstall (one of the very best FF ever) to take the heat off him. I saw plenty of finals when Brereton barely got a touch, and was beaten by very average footballers.ie Rod Grinter 1990 elim final. Brereton played in an era taylor made for fwds - Roo always has 2-3 players trying to cover him.

I suppose the arguments for would be that he did what he did with Dunstall in the side so got less delivery. The bigger the stage the bigger the performance, it seemed. There was less protection for the forwards in his time. Delivery by foot and game style is a lot cleaner, less contested marking in todays game.

I think when all is said and done Reiwoldt has played 300 (touch wood) with 150 as skipper and at least 6 B&Fs and dare I say it but hopefully a premiership, he may surpass Brereton and Kernahahn at least on that list?

Time will tell, all good players.

Loewe, Tredrae, Grant, Franklin added we have been blessed with CHF in the last 30 years.

[ace]

Could someone please explain to me why Brereton is rated as highly as he is?

Yeah tough. Yeah he kicked 4 goals in a game that was a shootout with broken ribs. PLayed well in some big games. His career was basically over at 27 though. Played less than 200 games for the hawks.

I have never understood this rating of a players ability based on the number of flags he's played in. One's a team thing the other's an individual assessment. Cam Mooney's played in 3 flags. Does that mean he should be in this exulted company?

B&F's and AA and MVP's should be the criteria. Are they saying that if Roo played CHF for the hawks instead of Brereton in the 80's they wouldn't have won all those flags? Brereton was no where near as consistent as Roo was. He also had Dunstall (one of the very best FF ever) to take the heat off him. I saw plenty of finals when Brereton barely got a touch, and was beaten by very average footballers.ie Rod Grinter 1990 elim final. Brereton played in an era taylor made for fwds - Roo always has 2-3 players trying to cover him.

The thing about Grand Finals is not how many you played in but how many you have dominated.
Home and away game performances are like practice matches when compared to grand finals.
That is because winning grand finals is what football is all about.
I have seen Brereton star in grand finals.

Riewoldt has played in only one grand final and for whatever reason, injury, wind and rain he did not dominate.
He will dominate the 2010 grand final and climb to the top of the list.

[Winmarvellous]

Can see him perhaps drawing even to Brereton IF we win 2-3 flags in his lifetime. Definitely better then Kernahan IMO. Could be considered even with Brown if we get the same amount of flags and he has as much influence in the BIG games. Brereton was a star who lifted when it counted the most. All above him are known as big game players. Rooeys finals series last year went a fair way to silencing many, but unfortunately he failed to fire on the day that counted most. Hopefully, he fires on all cylinders in the next couple and brings home a couple of cups and Normies. I think then you'd see him elevated to Browns status.

[Teflon]

Could someone please explain to me why Brereton is rated as highly as he is?

Yeah tough. Yeah he kicked 4 goals in a game that was a shootout with broken ribs. PLayed well in some big games. His career was basically over at 27 though. Played less than 200 games for the hawks.

I have never understood this rating of a players ability based on the number of flags he's played in. One's a team thing the other's an individual assessment. Cam Mooney's played in 3 flags. Does that mean he should be in this exulted company?

B&F's and AA and MVP's should be the criteria. Are they saying that if Roo played CHF for the hawks instead of Brereton in the 80's they wouldn't have won all those flags? Brereton was no where near as consistent as Roo was. He also had Dunstall (one of the very best FF ever) to take the heat off him. I saw plenty of finals when Brereton barely got a touch, and was beaten by very average footballers.ie Rod Grinter 1990 elim final. Brereton played in an era taylor made for fwds - Roo always has 2-3 players trying to cover him.

Totally agree.

Breretons career has gotten better the longer hes been retired....go figure..

Kernahan- WTF? a very good player not much more for mine.

IMHO and yep Im biased - Brown does not have the consistency of Riewoldt.

[meher baba]

The one thing they got right IMO was that Carey was clearly the best of the modern era. I would personally have rated Kernahan, Brown, Riewoldt and Hart fairly close.

Brereton was a quality player in a superb team, but I wouldn't personally put him on the same page as the other 5.
But there you go: it's all a matter of opinion.

[rodgerfox]

I have never understood this rating of a players ability based on the number of flags he's played in. One's a team thing the other's an individual assessment. Cam Mooney's played in 3 flags. Does that mean he should be in this exulted company?

I tend to agree.

You should obviously be rated on the number of flags you had a majot influence on - not just took the field in.


Robert Harvey for example, had 30 touches whilst being tagged heavily by about 3 blokes in a GF.

If we had have won, would it have made his game any better, therefore make him a better player?

The flipside is Roo. He was ordinary in the GF last year. If we had have got up, why does that make him a better player?

[Moods]

WEll this business about Brereton being a 'big game player' - let's analyse it.

83 GF - did nothing significant and his side wins by 80 points.
84GF - PLayed average, team lost by 4 goals.
85 - GF PLayed brilliantly. Team lost by 90 points. Some would argue that he had NO influence over the result.
86GF - Team won. Not sure how he went.
87GF - PLayed terribly and his opponent won Norm Smith.
88GF - PLayed well, but so did the entire team.
89 GF - Signature game. PLayed well under duress helped them to victory.
91 GF - PLayed well and hawks won by 10 goals.

I tell you what, I'd love Roo to be given the opportunity to play in 8 GF's. I'm pretty confident he'd play well in a couple as well!

AS for Carey. Never did anything in the 3 GF's he played. 96 being the most significant for him. He was absolutely woeful in the 98 GF. All 3 GF's were played in brilliant sunshine as well.

[meher baba]

But Carey was an exceptional talent, one of the three best I've ever seen: Matthews and GA Snr being the other two.

GA snr - leaving aside the fact that he is a totally messed up specimen of humanity (to put it as nicely as possible) - is a classic case of a champion player who didn't make a contribution to any GF wins.

But he was an extraordinary talent, who almost single-handedly won a lot of crucial games for the Cats a 1989 PF (? I think it was) particularly comes to mind.

Would he have been any more of an all-time great if Geelong had won 2 or 3 of the GFs he played in?

[stinger]

five best centre half forwards i have seen


....baldock........carey......roo......brown.....hart....

[samoht]

Hart was amazing in that he was very injury prone - virtually always played injured or had his seasons interrupted with injury.

[older saint]

Carey the best i have seen - interestingly had average or worse GF performances.

Brereton a great big game player.

Kernahan never rated him until 1993 GF when he dominated in a losing team. Spud seemed to have his measure so perhaps that is why i underrated him.

Brown - best in this decade
Ross - Catching fast

Hart , Baldock - Too young

Premierships is a poor criteria - performance in big games more important. Using premierships Skilton, Lockett, Gary Ablett Snr would not be rated ..

[samoht]

This guy wasn't bad either - 189 games for 576 goals for Fitzroy as a forward - played mainly as a CHF at Footscray.


Kicked over 800 goals at Footscray and Fitzroy

Won a brownlow too !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Quinlan

[terry smith rules]

It was interesting with Brereton how his body went from been unstoppable to gone in almost no time. At the time it seemed like weeks.

The absolute bash and crash just took too much of a toll, they did not have the knowledge of recovery and injury prevention/ treatment in those days.

It will be interesting to see Brown at 28 (I Think) how long his body will take it.

I think the lst of great players and those just outside it shows just how chf is the KEY position on the field. And why I would still bet against the dogs and pies in a grand final.

Even if the CHF has a poor big game , they can still influence as they draw the best defender and the play still goes through them.

[bergsone]

IMO Baldock was the best player ihave seen,so i would have to rate him best CHF ,yet for his build more suited to a midfield or flank roll nowdays.Feel sorry for those who didnt see him play in the flesh,really a great of the game.Roo,Brown etc all great players,but just got to have the Doc at the head of my list

[meher baba]

This guy wasn't bad either - 189 games for 576 goals for Fitzroy as a forward - played mainly as a CHF at Footscray.


Kicked over 800 goals at Footscray and Fitzroy

Won a brownlow too !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Quinlan

Absolutely useless: no influence whatsoever in Grand Finals!!

[BigMart]

N.Riewoldt has achieved more individually in a successful team than any mentioned....

5xB&F
4 Times AA and Captain
AFLPA MVP
Leading Goalkicker
Rising Star
Captain
Avg Poss per game better
Marks per Game better
Contested Marks per game better
Consistancy better

What more can he actually do????

More consistent than Brown, Brereton
Most influential player in team by far
More mobile than sticks
Not as goodas the King - none are!

My opinion
Carey 95/100
Brown 85/100
Riewoldt 85/100
Hart 80/100
Baldock 80/100
Kernahan 75/100
Brereton 75/100
Tredrea 70/100
Pavlich 70/100
Grant 70/100
Templeton 70/100

Other good CHF's
Van deer Haar, Daniher, Lucas, Rocca, Stoneham, Loewe, Fanning, Bosustow, Merrett and many more.....generally league CHF's could play a bit....
was Hird/Blight considered CHF's at any stage?? great players

I suppose it depends what you mean by CHF....there is NO traditional CHF anymore...just KF's inside 50

[samoht]

Pavlich is way up there too - I reckon he's been overlooked.
He's won 5 best and fairest and was runner up to Sandilands last year.

He didn't kick as many goals last year as he usually does and it wasn't his best and fairest year - but he still averaged nearly 22 possessions per game - which is excellent for a CHF and up there with the very best.

Interestingly Carey averaged about 19 possessions in his very best years !

[older saint]

Pavlich is way up there too - I reckon he's been overlooked.
He's won 5 best and fairest and was runner up to Sandilands last year.

He didn't kick as many goals last year as he usually does and it wasn't his best and fairest year - but he still averaged nearly 22 possessions per game - which is excellent for a CHF and up there with the very best.

Interestingly Carey averaged about 19 possessions in his very best years !

Possessions mean little nowdays it is more about how you influence a game.
Pavlich looks after Pav and does not make people around him better , 5 B&f with that rabble. Good player but not in the class of the 5 or 6 mentioned

[samoht]

Good point - on the other hand can Pavlich flog a dead horse or push sh+t uphill ?

He can only do so much.

[older saint]

true a real measure would have been if he went to Adelaide a few years back buthe chose to be a big fish in a small pond and that will always affect his rating by mugs like us ( no offence)