If you want to bag individual players, do it in another thread. This thread is for discussing the game with a calm attitude, and discussing what positives we can take away from it.
My feeling is that we couldn't have played much worse today, we have so much room for improvement on today's performance. Collingwood on the other hand, probably played to the best of their ability.
There probably aren't that many positives, it was just that sort of day. I think Jack Steven looked good, and Pattison exceeded expectations with a few really strong marks.
What can we take away from today? RL needs to developed an "attacking plan B". We aren't often in the position of being 7 or 8 goals down, this should have been an opportunity to try breaking the lines, kicking long down the corridor and taking risks. We are a good defensive team, but today it just didn't click - so we need a backup plan that involves a lot of attack so we can get out of holes like the one we were in today. It seems our gameplan is all about maintaining a close contest, and the reason we got over Geelong is because we never let them out of sight. It seemed once the Pies had hit about 5 or 6 goals ahead we didn't have the attacking style required to pull them back.
The positivity thread - leave emotion at the door please
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
The positivity thread - leave emotion at the door please
Feature article: KFC's "Double Down" burger!
TV Ratings: Hey Hey It's Saturday ratings overview
Do you know what C# is? .NET? Then you need to know this: XSD
TV Ratings: Hey Hey It's Saturday ratings overview
Do you know what C# is? .NET? Then you need to know this: XSD
-
Verdun66
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 6:46am
- Location: Dubai, UAE
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 2 times
Was worried during the week when RL stated we were 'very sore' after playing at the Gabba, and were on a modified training program this week.
We just didn't show up, and they sure did.
Roo underdone, Gram looks fat, Kosi and Milne didn't get in the game, Sneids missed a few, as did others.
But we never got on the front foot, and that was the game. Our disposal under pressure, and sometimes not under pressure was poor.
Shouldn't play like that again, but a tough one against the Hawks coming up.
So few positives, but we won't play like that again. That's the positive.
We just didn't show up, and they sure did.
Roo underdone, Gram looks fat, Kosi and Milne didn't get in the game, Sneids missed a few, as did others.
But we never got on the front foot, and that was the game. Our disposal under pressure, and sometimes not under pressure was poor.
Shouldn't play like that again, but a tough one against the Hawks coming up.
So few positives, but we won't play like that again. That's the positive.
Last edited by Verdun66 on Sat 17 Jul 2010 8:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
stkildathunda
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2176
- Joined: Mon 10 Aug 2009 11:03am
- Location: Inside The Circle Of Zen
- Contact:
-
saintnick12
- Club Player
- Posts: 1877
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 2:08pm
Re: The positivity thread - leave emotion at the door please
I think that was just about our worst - so while its bad that we played so badly, the positive is we know we can play so much better and have so much improvement. Everything went wrong. Even the bounce of the ball (eg that one of McQualters), meanwhile Davis is kicking them out of the air.battye wrote:My feeling is that we couldn't have played much worse today, we have so much room for improvement on today's performance. Collingwood on the other hand, probably played to the best of their ability.
As far as I know we had no reports or any new serious injuries so we can take that as a positive.
And if we can win next week, I'll take that...one loss against top teams for the year is not too bad.
"At the end of the day, a coach and a fitness adviser doesn't make a good football team, they're not the only ones who got us to two Grand Finals." Lenny Hayes. 27/9/2011.
-
CeilidhSaint
- Club Player
- Posts: 562
- Joined: Mon 18 Sep 2006 11:00pm
- Location: The Ironically Named Victory Room
* We are tapering
* Didn't want to give away any trade secrets
* Flu and bubonic plague rife
* All part of the plan
* Lulling into false sense of security
* All the good teams lose at this time ofthe year, it's a tradition
* Pies July premiers
* Learnt from last year playing well in the H&A is a mugs game
* McEvoy is dropped only when we don't want to win
Positive enough?
* Didn't want to give away any trade secrets
* Flu and bubonic plague rife
* All part of the plan
* Lulling into false sense of security
* All the good teams lose at this time ofthe year, it's a tradition
* Pies July premiers
* Learnt from last year playing well in the H&A is a mugs game
* McEvoy is dropped only when we don't want to win
Positive enough?
TB 1 - The Brightest Light on the Darkest Night - we miss you.
Think Globally, Act Sainterly
I have Phil Narkle's helmet
Think Globally, Act Sainterly
I have Phil Narkle's helmet
-
Devilhead
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8276
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:56pm
- Has thanked: 135 times
- Been thanked: 1150 times
-
Devilhead
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8276
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:56pm
- Has thanked: 135 times
- Been thanked: 1150 times
-
rodgerfox
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 9:10am
- Has thanked: 425 times
- Been thanked: 327 times
Today showed us nothing new.
We're a very good team - who needs to give 110% effort for 4 quarters to beat good teams, and who needs their 'top 6' to play well to win the games.
That's nothing new. No surprises.
Today we were 'outpressured' and didn't get the required output from our stars.
Simple.
The only problem is, that we've shown twice this year that we can be wallopped. Not a good sign.
We've also shown 3 times that we can be beaten even by the shiit teams when the above areas aren't up to scratch. Again, that's not a good sign.
The good signs though, are that when the above areas are up to scratch, we beat anyone.
So really, nothing new came out of today at all.
We're a very good team - who needs to give 110% effort for 4 quarters to beat good teams, and who needs their 'top 6' to play well to win the games.
That's nothing new. No surprises.
Today we were 'outpressured' and didn't get the required output from our stars.
Simple.
The only problem is, that we've shown twice this year that we can be wallopped. Not a good sign.
We've also shown 3 times that we can be beaten even by the shiit teams when the above areas aren't up to scratch. Again, that's not a good sign.
The good signs though, are that when the above areas are up to scratch, we beat anyone.
So really, nothing new came out of today at all.
I am taking this request seriously... I will only talk about positive stuff. Here ya go.
On a very dirty day, here are some positives:
* While it is easy to look at the scoreboard and think we were absolutely terrible, if you look at all the stats, it doesn't paint such a bad picture. For instance, in today's loss we still had 222 kicks... which is not bad considering that against Brisbane we had 223, against Melbourne 229, against Geelong 245 and against Freo 207. The area where we were probably down a bit was handballs - we had 162 today, and we usually have more. Against Brisbane we had 187, against Melbourne 193, against Geelong 193 and against Freo 171. Today’s handballs often seemed to someone who was themselves under pressure… so we can be more constructive in our use of handball, and I’m sure the team will work on that. We did take the same amount of marks as we have been taking usually – today we took 124, and in the last 4 matches (all wins) we have taken 124, 120, 125, and 122. We were just really bad in terms of disposal efficiency - which has something to do with the pressure, something to do with the personnel, and something to do with having an off day.
* Jack Steven has shown that his goal-kicking efforts against Geelong were not an abberation. He is a mid-fielder who can kick goals (always valuable). He’s only played 6 games, including against Geelong and Collingwood, and he has kicked 9 goals in that time!
* It would be very hard to play that badly again.
* Roo and Gram are getting game time... still underdone, but getting game time in their legs.
* The commentators were saying Roo's shoulder and knee was hurt before half-time, but he played the whole game out and he didn't seem to be TOO bothered by them, by the end of the game.
* Even on a dirty day, Milne still kicked a goal - the only player in the comp who has kicked a goal every match this year.
* We tried Kosi at the ruck at the beginning of the game. People have been saying play Kosi in the ruck, and he got his chance. He kicked a goal in the first minute, so it looked like it had paid off, but it didn't work out. Good to know.
* We have played another game at the MCG, in front of a big crowd. Chalk that up as an experience. It helps to play there, no matter what the result, just because our players get the feel of the ground... which is undoubtedly different to Ethiad.
* We have seen that some of our players are very one-sided, and that is something that other teams are aware of... so it is something that our team will definitely be working on, and working out plans to support those players in such situations (as well as working with them to improve their skills).
* We had more scoring shots than them in the second half, which is something that you wouldn't necessarily recognize at first, but stems from the fact that we kicked badly at goal. (They had 4 scoring shots for 4 goals in the 3rd, we had 7, for 1 goal 6; they had 5 scoring shots in the 4th, for 4 goals 1, we had 7 scoring shots for 2 goals 5).
* The game plan will be worked on, and match-ups will be looked at in future. It would be nice to win every game of the season, but this was not the grand final and it was not the end of the world. (That doesn't mean I like losing, but it happens).
* Although we were down on tackles as a whole team, three of our players made 20 tackles between them: Clint Jones (8), Jarryn Geary (whose defensive work is always under-rated) (6) and Leigh Montagna (6).
* When teams have really dominant ruckmen who are beating us (and they did today – Jolly got a lot more hitouts than Kosi, Gardiner and Patto)… one of our techniques is to use Goddard as 3rd man up. This has worked with limited success in the past. But what if he was injured? Who would do it then? Today we actually experimented with Lenny as 3rd man up, on a number of times. He actually won 6 hitouts! That is an experiment which worked. This is important, because we are averaging 34 hitouts per game for the season, and our opponents average 40… so it’s an area we can improve and it looks like we are taking steps to address that.
* Zac Dawson played his 50th game. Worth acknowledging for two reasons: one, we should celebrate milestones for our players regardless of whether we win or lose; but second, it underscores his relative inexperience.
* For the record, I believe we would have matched up better against them with both Dal and Bakes in the side. And they both will come back.
* Patto's only played 4 games this season, but he had 11 hitouts which is far more than he has in any other game for us and 12 handballs, which is also his best for us.
* Fisher's stats were his best for the season, in terms of total disposals, kicks and marks. In fact, it was his second highest number of disposals ever in a game (the higer one, incidentally, was also against Collingwood).
* Montagna’s stats are still among the best in the AFL. He got 34 possessions today (21 kicks, 13 handballs) and also made 5 marks and 6 tackles. No wonder champion data rates him as a chance for the Brownlow.
* Adam Schneider is leading the competition in goal assists... and even though he kicked 4 points today, he still got 2 goal assists... which is saying something, considering our forward line wasn't really firing.
So, on an individual level, there were some things that weren't so bad, and even on a team level, some of the stats aren't as bad as you might first think.
On a very dirty day, here are some positives:
* While it is easy to look at the scoreboard and think we were absolutely terrible, if you look at all the stats, it doesn't paint such a bad picture. For instance, in today's loss we still had 222 kicks... which is not bad considering that against Brisbane we had 223, against Melbourne 229, against Geelong 245 and against Freo 207. The area where we were probably down a bit was handballs - we had 162 today, and we usually have more. Against Brisbane we had 187, against Melbourne 193, against Geelong 193 and against Freo 171. Today’s handballs often seemed to someone who was themselves under pressure… so we can be more constructive in our use of handball, and I’m sure the team will work on that. We did take the same amount of marks as we have been taking usually – today we took 124, and in the last 4 matches (all wins) we have taken 124, 120, 125, and 122. We were just really bad in terms of disposal efficiency - which has something to do with the pressure, something to do with the personnel, and something to do with having an off day.
* Jack Steven has shown that his goal-kicking efforts against Geelong were not an abberation. He is a mid-fielder who can kick goals (always valuable). He’s only played 6 games, including against Geelong and Collingwood, and he has kicked 9 goals in that time!
* It would be very hard to play that badly again.
* Roo and Gram are getting game time... still underdone, but getting game time in their legs.
* The commentators were saying Roo's shoulder and knee was hurt before half-time, but he played the whole game out and he didn't seem to be TOO bothered by them, by the end of the game.
* Even on a dirty day, Milne still kicked a goal - the only player in the comp who has kicked a goal every match this year.
* We tried Kosi at the ruck at the beginning of the game. People have been saying play Kosi in the ruck, and he got his chance. He kicked a goal in the first minute, so it looked like it had paid off, but it didn't work out. Good to know.
* We have played another game at the MCG, in front of a big crowd. Chalk that up as an experience. It helps to play there, no matter what the result, just because our players get the feel of the ground... which is undoubtedly different to Ethiad.
* We have seen that some of our players are very one-sided, and that is something that other teams are aware of... so it is something that our team will definitely be working on, and working out plans to support those players in such situations (as well as working with them to improve their skills).
* We had more scoring shots than them in the second half, which is something that you wouldn't necessarily recognize at first, but stems from the fact that we kicked badly at goal. (They had 4 scoring shots for 4 goals in the 3rd, we had 7, for 1 goal 6; they had 5 scoring shots in the 4th, for 4 goals 1, we had 7 scoring shots for 2 goals 5).
* The game plan will be worked on, and match-ups will be looked at in future. It would be nice to win every game of the season, but this was not the grand final and it was not the end of the world. (That doesn't mean I like losing, but it happens).
* Although we were down on tackles as a whole team, three of our players made 20 tackles between them: Clint Jones (8), Jarryn Geary (whose defensive work is always under-rated) (6) and Leigh Montagna (6).
* When teams have really dominant ruckmen who are beating us (and they did today – Jolly got a lot more hitouts than Kosi, Gardiner and Patto)… one of our techniques is to use Goddard as 3rd man up. This has worked with limited success in the past. But what if he was injured? Who would do it then? Today we actually experimented with Lenny as 3rd man up, on a number of times. He actually won 6 hitouts! That is an experiment which worked. This is important, because we are averaging 34 hitouts per game for the season, and our opponents average 40… so it’s an area we can improve and it looks like we are taking steps to address that.
* Zac Dawson played his 50th game. Worth acknowledging for two reasons: one, we should celebrate milestones for our players regardless of whether we win or lose; but second, it underscores his relative inexperience.
* For the record, I believe we would have matched up better against them with both Dal and Bakes in the side. And they both will come back.
* Patto's only played 4 games this season, but he had 11 hitouts which is far more than he has in any other game for us and 12 handballs, which is also his best for us.
* Fisher's stats were his best for the season, in terms of total disposals, kicks and marks. In fact, it was his second highest number of disposals ever in a game (the higer one, incidentally, was also against Collingwood).
* Montagna’s stats are still among the best in the AFL. He got 34 possessions today (21 kicks, 13 handballs) and also made 5 marks and 6 tackles. No wonder champion data rates him as a chance for the Brownlow.
* Adam Schneider is leading the competition in goal assists... and even though he kicked 4 points today, he still got 2 goal assists... which is saying something, considering our forward line wasn't really firing.
So, on an individual level, there were some things that weren't so bad, and even on a team level, some of the stats aren't as bad as you might first think.
"Don't give up, never give up" - Robert Harvey.
-
Sainterone
- Club Player
- Posts: 1488
- Joined: Mon 03 May 2004 5:01pm
It's not September.
It would be nice (I'd love it) but we probably can't win every game every week.
We put another game into Roo and Gram which they will be better for.
We are one game closer to getting Bakes back
Dal will be back (hopefully) to take it up to the dawks.
We are only one game from the top of the ladder.
And we haven't hit our straps yet.
It would be nice (I'd love it) but we probably can't win every game every week.
We put another game into Roo and Gram which they will be better for.
We are one game closer to getting Bakes back
Dal will be back (hopefully) to take it up to the dawks.
We are only one game from the top of the ladder.
And we haven't hit our straps yet.
GO SAINTS
NICK RIEWOLDT - 444 GOALS FROM 200 MATCHES
STEPHEN MILNE - 440 GOALS FROM 216 MATCHES
NICK RIEWOLDT - 444 GOALS FROM 200 MATCHES
STEPHEN MILNE - 440 GOALS FROM 216 MATCHES
-
lennyeverywhere
- Club Player
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Sun 27 Sep 2009 11:52pm
- Location: HUGHESDALE
Positives
The biggest positive from me was we played away and didn't have to suffer from 3 hours of grandma and grandpa complaining all day. They complained all year last year (thought we went OK) and I tried to get moved but I wouldn't give up my front row seats and I guess they like the seats too.
Aisle 40 Row A grandma and grandpa you know who you are!!
I have never heard Grandma say a positive word about the saints in 3 years.
Sad when our own supporters annoy you.
Man up Man up, every kick in. UMMMMMM, ZONES grandma!!!!
Aisle 40 Row A grandma and grandpa you know who you are!!
I have never heard Grandma say a positive word about the saints in 3 years.
Sad when our own supporters annoy you.
Man up Man up, every kick in. UMMMMMM, ZONES grandma!!!!
Last edited by lennyeverywhere on Sat 17 Jul 2010 8:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Milan Faletic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6090
- Joined: Fri 11 Mar 2005 9:18pm
Always appreciate posters who research facts to demonstrate a point rather than just venting off the first thing that comes to their head.markinUSA wrote:Thanks dcstkfc. I did take a bit of time to think about the game, and analyse it, to see what positives I could find. I'm glad you appreciated what I wrote.
Cheers, and GO SAINTS!
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
-
Longwayfromhome
- Club Player
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Thu 25 Dec 2008 12:47pm