Depth

BigMart · Post: # 1178388Post **BigMart** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 12:44pm

Now that the list has taken most of its shape.....

Senior Defenders (6)

Blake, Gilbert, Fisher, Dempster, Clarke, Gram

Senior Mids (9)

McEvoy, Dal Santo, Jones, Hayes, Goddard, Montagna, Steven, Armitage, Peake

Senior Forwards

Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Siposs, Milne, Schnieder, Saad

Subs/Emergancies - competing for senior selection

Ray, Ledger, Cripps

Back Ups....or competing for selection.....in order

Simpkin - Defender......Blake/Gilbert/Fisher
Stanley - Ruck/Fwd......Kosi, McEvoy
Wilkes - Foey Fwd/Def......Blake/Fisher/Riewoldt/Kosi
Polo - Mid....Experience Mid back up
Geary/Winmar - HB..........Clarke/Gram
Ross - Mid.....Inexperience back up mid
Markworth/Milera - HF........in contention with Saad/Siposs

Would require injury to get a game...but could play AFL if needed

Dowler - Back up Def
Archer - Back up fwd
Ferguson - Back up tall utility......Gilbert
Curran - inexperienced back up mid

Still deveoping
Crocker, Webster, Lever, Andreoli....further rookies

Spinner · Post: # 1178397Post **Spinner** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 1:00pm

Crocker to dominate 2012.

BigMart · Post: # 1178403Post **BigMart** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 1:16pm

at 179/72kg Crocker is IMO simply too light too make a significant impact in 2012....

Problem with him was a shoulder injury which cost him developmet in both football and body in 2011....it was a real set back.

I think he will need to develop further yet

awesome_days · Sat 26 Nov 2011 1:52pm

First Choice Players
B: Fisher, Gilbert, Dempster, Gwilt
M: Hayes, Dal Santo, Goddard, Montagna, McEvoy, Steven
F: Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Milne, Schneider

Other Seniors
B: Blake, Clarke, Polo, Wilkes
M: Armitage, Ray, Peake, Gram, Jones
F:

Untried/Rookies/Kids
B: Simpkin, Ferguson, Lever
M: Cripps, Ledger, Crocker, Stanley, Winmar, Ross, Curran, Andreoli, Webster, Milera, Newnes
F: Sipposs, Saad, Archer

I think i have missed a couple on the list, but to me it looks like we have just enough senior players to make a first 22, some kids need to step up.

We have a shortage of genuine ruckman, need to get one this year or next, to me this is not a huge issue as we have a very good #1 so strategy here may be rookie a 25yo for 2 years and draft a genuine prospect next year. This covers both short term and gives a chance to develop a backup/successor to McEvoy.

asiu · Post: # 1178410Post **asiu** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 1:54pm

.wheres the fro , mart ?

Ross who? · Post: # 1178412Post **Ross who?** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 1:59pm

Spinner wrote:Crocker to dominate 2012.

Hope your right

However he was easily the slowest at the time trials the other day at training. Still a ways to go on endurance IMO. Kicking is superb. Saw him in Sandy 2's this year at Franga, kick a goal from inside the Centre square that went through half post high.

bobmurray · Post: # 1178453Post **bobmurray** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 4:41pm

Ross who? wrote:
Spinner wrote:Crocker to dominate 2012.
Hope your right
However he was easily the slowest at the time trials the other day at training. Still a ways to go on endurance IMO. Kicking is superb. Saw him in Sandy 2's this year at Franga, kick a goal from inside the Centre square that went through half post high.

Your post almost made him sound like a perfect draft candidate of the past...

slow and skill-less

BigMart · Post: # 1178460Post **BigMart** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 4:53pm

Recovering from a Knee Reco.....12 month lay off from R15 2011...will see him a long way back next season

AnythingsPossibleSaints · Sat 26 Nov 2011 4:57pm

Wasn't he supposed to be only a couple of weeks behind Lenny, in his progress, about 3 months ago?

Spinner · Post: # 1178468Post **Spinner** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 5:04pm

Ross who? wrote:
Spinner wrote:Crocker to dominate 2012.
Hope your right
However he was easily the slowest at the time trials the other day at training. Still a ways to go on endurance IMO. Kicking is superb. Saw him in Sandy 2's this year at Franga, kick a goal from inside the Centre square that went through half post high.

His kicking is superb for such a little guy!

Zed · Post: # 1178471Post **Zed** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 5:17pm

not sure why, but when you lay the players out like you have, it doesnt look all that convincing in terms of having a team that will finish top 4 and be a genuine chance of playing another GF.

God I hope I am so wrong its not funny

asiu · Post: # 1178479Post **asiu** » Sat 26 Nov 2011 5:37pm

Yep.

Ok , i see how you are filing the data. Ta.

PJ · Post: # 1178490Post PJ » Sat 26 Nov 2011 6:29pm

BigMart wrote:Recovering from a Knee Reco.....12 month lay off from R15 2011...will see him a long way back next season

12 months would seem excessive - have any reports been given on his progress?

Saintersss · Sat 26 Nov 2011 6:37pm

PJ wrote:
BigMart wrote:Recovering from a Knee Reco.....12 month lay off from R15 2011...will see him a long way back next season
12 months would seem excessive - have any reports been given on his progress?

Players don't miss 12 months with knee reco's anymore. Usually 9-11months, especially at Gwilt's age. Hayes at 32 may take the full 12 months though.

Hayes should be back before Round 1 and Gwilt should be ready to play around Round 5 - 10 I'd say. However, it may take a few weeks for him to regain form.

AnythingsPossibleSaints · Sat 26 Nov 2011 7:45pm

The other thing was that Hayes had other problems with his knee, did he not? From memory it wasn't just the ACL that he injured and he also then had further surgery on it a couple of months or so after the reco.
So there would be a very good chance it will take Lenny longer than Jimmy to get over his initial injury and word late in the season was that Jimmy was recovering at a very rapid rate and was only a couple of weeks or so behind Lenny, in terms of being ready to resume running, or training, or whatever. If that was correct and Jimmy continued at the same rate of recovery there's every chance he'll be ready to go pretty early in the season. Fingers crossed!

BigMart · Post: # 1178585Post **BigMart** » Sun 27 Nov 2011 9:08am

I have heard Jimmy state it will be the full 12 month recovery, when asked about why he didnt go for Lars surgery........

Dempster was 11 months....then at Sandy for 4 weeks....

Kruzer took 12 months on the knocker, and longer before he played seniors - but he is 200cm

The norm with and ACL is still the full 12 months.....Ligament has to fully repair and knit.....before running, strength and conditioning, then turning, the contests....

I did my left ACL in 2002 (luckily it was at work so I could afford private rehab through Work Cover)....My knee has never been the same since, even with the lay off and rehab....It is still loose and has about 50% more 'play' than my right knee......and my ability to turn/jump with full power off my left was gone.
Unfortunately my brother did his twice, and it effectively ended his senior career at 21, and even effected his cricket......
This isnt normally the case at AFL level, due to the amount of work going into rehab....but to illustrate that you dont get back to 100% mobility, due to scar tissue in your joint..

PJ · Post: # 1178586Post PJ » Sun 27 Nov 2011 9:16am

BigMart wrote:I have heard Jimmy state it will be the full 12 month recovery, when asked about why he didnt go for Lars surgery........

Dempster was 11 months....then at Sandy for 4 weeks....

Kruzer took 12 months on the knocker, and longer before he played seniors - but he is 200cm

The norm with and ACL is still the full 12 months.....Ligament has to fully repair and knit.....before running, strength and conditioning, then turning, the contests....

I did my left ACL in 2002 (luckily it was at work so I could afford private rehab through Work Cover)....My knee has never been the same since, even with the lay off and rehab....It is still loose and has about 50% more 'play' than my right knee......and my ability to turn/jump with full power off my left was gone.
Unfortunately my brother did his twice, and it effectively ended his senior career at 21, and even effected his cricket......
This isnt normally the case at AFL level, due to the amount of work going into rehab....but to illustrate that you dont get back to 100% mobility, due to scar tissue in your joint..

Jimmy has become more important to the back 6 now Zac has gone and to some extent may have had an influence on whether or not we use Wilkes there. His exclusion changes the whole shape of the front and back half. Let's hope the recovery goes ahead of schedule.

jays · Post: # 1178592Post **jays** » Sun 27 Nov 2011 9:42am

yes we need him back asap

asiu · Post: # 1178597Post **asiu** » Sun 27 Nov 2011 9:49am

Yes ... hopefully with the 'long term' interests of his structural health paramount though.

asiu · Post: # 1178598Post **asiu** » Sun 27 Nov 2011 9:50am

Yes ... hopefully with the 'long term' interests of his structural health paramount though.

Old Mate · Post: # 1178640Post **Old Mate** » Sun 27 Nov 2011 11:30am

No reason to rush him back

BigMart · Post: # 1178644Post **BigMart** » Sun 27 Nov 2011 11:46am

Lenny Hayes wrote in an article on the club website, that he came back after 9 and a half months in 2007 and felt in hindsight it was too early and wont be repeaing that....

If anyone works diligently in rehab and puts themselves in a position to come back its Lenny. I would listen to his experience and not see Jimmy do and Ox Schwartze and push the envelope

ace · Post: # 1178672Post **ace** » Sun 27 Nov 2011 12:54pm

Simple lesson from 2011.

We don't need players back early.

We need to have them back in time to make the finals and be fit and in form during the finals.

At the end of the season only performance in the finals counts.

If you can't make the finals comfortably then there is little point being there.
It would be better to get lower draft picks now that Gold Coast and GWS have nearly finished stuffing themselves.

plugger66 · Sun 27 Nov 2011 12:56pm

ace wrote:Simple lesson from 2011.

We don't need players back early.

We need to have them back in time to make the finals and be fit and in form during the finals.

At the end of the season only performance in the finals counts.

The lesson I learnt from 2011 is you need to win early to set yourself up for a good finals series.

borderbarry · Sun 27 Nov 2011 12:56pm

Getting back to the subject at hand... Depth... areas we have to date done little to cover is key position players and ruckmen.
We had Gardiner retire, and we lost Dawson and Walsh, and took one Lever and Wilkes. Lever appears to be another Stanley, tall enough for a ruckman but too light, and wants to play elsewhere.