Clubs Elite- according to Data-is list correct?

[saintbrat]

St Kilda: Lenny Hayes (mid), Sam Fisher (gen def), Nick Riewoldt (key fwd), Leigh Montagna (mid), Nick Dal Santo (mid), Adam Schneider (gen fwd), Brendon Goddard (gen def).

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 6224741457

THE CRITERIA
All players are rated using Champion Data's rankings points against other players in their position type.

Elite: top 10 per cent
Above Average: top 11-35 per cent
Average: top 36-65 per cent
Below Average: top 66-90 per cent
Poor: Bottom 10 per cent

[Furphy]

Gen Def sounds like the name of some heavy metal band, maybe hard-of-hearing gender benders?
But hey, it's good to see we're still up there. Looking forward to next season!

[Gershwin]

Milne not in the top 10% of small forwards ... hmmm

[Gershwin]

Milne not in the top 10% of small forwards ... hmmm

Actually doesn't look like they have the category small forward, only gen fwd and Schneider is rated higher than Milne. Don't agree with that.

[plugger66]

Milne not in the top 10% of small forwards ... hmmm

Actually doesn't look like they have the category small forward, only gen fwd and Schneider is rated higher than Milne. Don't agree with that.

It is a set formula. It has nothing to do with peoples opinion.

[jays]

milne not there is a shock

[meher baba]

Milne not in the top 10% of small forwards ... hmmm

Actually doesn't look like they have the category small forward, only gen fwd and Schneider is rated higher than Milne. Don't agree with that.

It is a set formula. It has nothing to do with peoples opinion.

If it rates Schneider ahead of Milne, it's a dud formula.

[meher baba]

Looking through the list as a whole, the system has clearly underestimated flair and creativity. No out-and-out crumbing forwards, very few indigenous players, no Nick Natanui, etc.

It's interesting, but like dream team and super coach and the rest, it doesn't give the full picture. Thank goodness: what makes AFL great is that it can't be boiled down into things like "metres gained", "time in posession", etc.

[meher baba]

Another way of looking at these things is like this.

Stats enable you to gauge yourself against other players of your type. But, in a game, you don't need to perform all the other players of your type, you need to beat your opponent. And not even beat him the majority of the time, but only when it really matters.

That's our game.

[meher baba]

Another way of looking at these things is like this.

Stats enable you to gauge yourself against other players of your type. But, in a game, you don't need to perform all the other players of your type, you need to beat your opponent. And not even beat him the majority of the time, but only when it really matters.

That's our game.

[matrix]

theres a stat site you can join, last year i think it cost about 35 bucks
id be interested to join it but for the life of me i cant find the link anymore

champion data seem to have the book thing and thats all i can find

if anyone finds it or knows what im talking about sling me a pm

[Rosco]

Looking through the list as a whole, the system has clearly underestimated flair and creativity. No out-and-out crumbing forwards, very few indigenous players, no Nick Natanui, etc.

the system underestimates flair and creativity or the fan overestimates these in terms of a player's actual effectiveness? just a thought.

[Kate]

There's a lot that stats still can't measure. It's the X-factor for the want of a better word. The ability to conjure something from nothing. The freak goal or the smother or run down you just didn't see coming.

[Moccha]

St Kilda: Lenny Hayes (mid), Sam Fisher (gen def), Nick Riewoldt (key fwd), Leigh Montagna (mid), Nick Dal Santo (mid), Adam Schneider (gen fwd), Brendon Goddard (gen def).

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 6224741457

THE CRITERIA
All players are rated using Champion Data's rankings points against other players in their position type.

Elite: top 10 per cent
Above Average: top 11-35 per cent
Average: top 36-65 per cent
Below Average: top 66-90 per cent
Poor: Bottom 10 per cent

You should know!

[gringo]

Stats don't lie but they don't allow for nuance and are using the values placed on them by an individual or group.

[saint6709]

Has anyone bought the report??
Where are the rest of our list ? How many 'above average' and 'average' players do we have?

[Gershwin]

Has anyone bought the report??
Where are the rest of our list ? How many 'above average' and 'average' players do we have?

The Champion Data 2012 AFL Prospectus doesn't come out until approx. Feb next year.

[meher baba]

Looking through the list as a whole, the system has clearly underestimated flair and creativity. No out-and-out crumbing forwards, very few indigenous players, no Nick Natanui, etc.

the system underestimates flair and creativity or the fan overestimates these in terms of a player's actual effectiveness? just a thought.

Hey Rosco. Shouldn't you be busy working on your plans for fitting Zac into your new club's backline?

[Rosco]

Looking through the list as a whole, the system has clearly underestimated flair and creativity. No out-and-out crumbing forwards, very few indigenous players, no Nick Natanui, etc.

the system underestimates flair and creativity or the fan overestimates these in terms of a player's actual effectiveness? just a thought.

Hey Rosco. Shouldn't you be busy working on your plans for fitting Zac into your new club's backline?

Was waiting for someone to make that connection. Answer: No, will play him as a key forward to free Pav into the midfield.

[Middo]

Bachar Houli (gen def),

Ha Ha explains it all with the Bash getting a gig ....

[BackFromUSA]

I could easily justify why Schneider is higher ranked than Milne as a forward.

Although Milne kicks more goals (god love his flair too), Schneider would have more possessions; more effective possessions; more involvements in scoring chains; more direct score involvements (goals; points and direct supply to scorer) and crucially fewer errors and frees against that cause turnovers - which are costly in the modern game.

In fact I think these rankings are spot on except for injury impacted players.

For example Gwilt would have out ranked Goddard as a general defender in my mind in terms of the first half of 2011 given their respective form lines and especially if the ranking included defensive acts like spoils as well as the offensive acts like effective clearances from defensive 50.

However over a 2 or 3 year period Goddard would be ranked higher.

[on the outer]

Dont understand the categories for example Key Defender, if thats the player who plays on the tall (or key) forward. Then as there are nine listed that means accross the AFL there are 90 playing that role or on average 5 at every club. Cant see any club having that many Key defenders Probably need them though to play on the 4 key forwards (again on average) that each club has, as there list suggests.

[meher baba]

I could easily justify why Schneider is higher ranked than Milne as a forward.

Although Milne kicks more goals (god love his flair too), Schneider would have more possessions; more effective possessions; more involvements in scoring chains; more direct score involvements (goals; points and direct supply to scorer) and crucially fewer errors and frees against that cause turnovers - which are costly in the modern game.

Milne scores a lot more goals than Schneider: about 60 per cent more over the past two seasons. His inside 50s and "Goal Assists" are as good or better than Schneider's. Where Schneider clearly comes out ahead is in terms of possessions, tackles and frees against.

Schneider gets more possessions than Milne because he spends a lot more time away from the forward line. He is certainly a better tackler than Milne.

I guess I am looking for my elite forwards to score goals and help to set them up. I'm funny that way.