This is reality...

[citywest]

Membership figures for 2013 and 2014. Ugly reading if you are a Saint.
This is why we need to make NZ work. By the end of the 2020 season I would hope that we would have at least 5,000 signed up (Kiwi) members by then. (This will only happen if we play 2 games there per year). Then hopefully, however many NZ'ers emigrate to Australia each year would automatically become members (or at the very least supporters), of the St Kilda Football Club.

Collingwood 70,427....................79,273
Hawthorn 63,353.......................68,652
Richmond 60,321.......................66,122
Essendon 56,173........................60,646
West Coast 58,501......................58,426
Adelaide 46,054.........................57,171
Port Adelaide 40,162...................55,508
Fremantle 44,480.......................48,776
Carlton 50,561...........................47,485
Geelong 40,025..........................43,806
Sydney Swans 36,358...................40,123
North Melbourne 34,60.................40,027
Melbourne 33,177.......................35,911
Western Bulldogs 30,209...............31,538
St Kilda 32,710...........................30,738
Brisbane Lions 24,130...................23,930
Gold Coast 12,502.......................13,478
Greater Western Sydney 12,681.......13,047

[Munga]

Are these numbers full season ticket holders? Or do they include all the other stupid stuff like 3 game members and pet memberships? Collingwood having the most animals makes sense.

[spert]

We live in an age of people with a short attention span- basically, if you don't win games and look like a winner, people are not going to get on board, they would rather spend money on a hideous tattoo. We just need to start the 2015 season by winning, including pre-season games. The club needs to get off their backsides and do a whole lot more in selling memberships.

[SainterK]

Try and win back those that left past 3 years, were up to 40K at one stage.

Ring a few and ask why, how can we fix your issue.

[citywest]

Are these numbers full season ticket holders? Or do they include all the other stupid stuff like 3 game members and pet memberships? Collingwood having the most animals makes sense.

It includes every membership including 3 games. Does it really matter though? When you factor in our position on the ladder, our list profile, the uncertainty on our training base/s, our debt (it could be as high as $10Million from all reports), and our lowly membership base, we really are at that fork in the road again just like in the 1980's. What I'm trying to point out here is the importance of New Zealand. We need to make it work big time because it is only a matter of time before the AFL come knocking again for a team to relocate to Tassie. There are really only 4 candidates, and they are Melbourne, North Melbourne, Footscray and St Kilda. Five years ago we were in no danger at all but how quickly things have changed.

[plugger66]

Are these numbers full season ticket holders? Or do they include all the other stupid stuff like 3 game members and pet memberships? Collingwood having the most animals makes sense.

It includes every membership including 3 games. Does it really matter though? When you factor in our position on the ladder, our list profile, the uncertainty on our training base/s, our debt (it could be as high as $10Million from all reports), and our lowly membership base, we really are at that fork in the road again just like in the 1980's. What I'm trying to point out here is the importance of New Zealand. We need to make it work big time because it is only a matter of time before the AFL come knocking again for a team to relocate to Tassie. There are really only 4 candidates, and they are Melbourne, North Melbourne, Footscray and St Kilda. Five years ago we were in no danger at all but how quickly things have changed.

Your last is right. Tassie is years away and as you point out how quickly things can change. Forget NZ. One game is enough there. The NZ government arent going to give us much more money for more games there as the crowd numbers will continue to drop and the AFL wont get ratings in NZ so its not worth much money to them to grow the game.

[citywest]

Hopefully the club aren't thinking along your lines Plugger because if they do we are doomed. I hope, and I reckon they are, going to increase the amount of games we are playing in NZ to 2. One on ANZAC day obviously, and one towards the end of the season (round 18ish). This will enable them to offer membership packages that will make the people who take them up feel like they belong to our club. Two games per year in New Zealand would be awesome in my opinion because it will shove it up Etihad's arse and will put them on notice that if they don't give us a better deal then we will gladly take away further games from them.

[plugger66]

Hopefully the club aren't thinking along your lines Plugger because if they do we are doomed. I hope, and I reckon they are, going to increase the amount of games we are playing in NZ to 2. One on ANZAC day obviously, and one towards the end of the season (round 18ish). This will enable them to offer membership packages that will make the people who take them up feel like they belong to our club. Two games per year in New Zealand would be awesome in my opinion because it will shove it up Etihad's arse and will put them on notice that if they don't give us a better deal then we will gladly take away further games from them.

No it wont at all because Etihad have a contract to have a certain amount of games there a year. No point in playing more in NZ unless the NZ governmwnt offer us money to do so. neither of us know if that will happen or not. And how many people would travel over to NZ if there was a game there next week. Not many I would suggest. As for being doomed well unless the TV contracts change there will always be 18 sides and tassie is many years away so things can change quickly as you pointed out.

[citywest]

I can almost guarantee you that Tassie will enter the AFL sooner rather than later. Gold Coast and Western Sydney should be just about able to stand on their own 2 feet by the end of the next TV deal which is at the end of the 2021 season (I think). Now before you go jumping all over what I just said, I mean they will be well established and probably have won at least 1 premiership each. Financially though, they will probably need assistance for another 20 years just like the Swans. On that reckoning the AFL will want a team in Tassie for the start of the next TV deal which would be around 2026 season. That gives the 4 struggling Victorian teams 12 years to get their s*** in order, and for us it is New Zealand. Get that up and running to its full potential and we will be fine. Keep our heads in the sand like you are suggesting and then suffer the consequences. It's as simple as that really.

[plugger66]

I can almost guarantee you that Tassie will enter the AFL sooner rather than later. Gold Coast and Western Sydney should be just about able to stand on their own 2 feet by the end of the next TV deal which is at the end of the 2021 season (I think). Now before you go jumping all over what I just said, I mean they will be well established and probably have won at least 1 premiership each. Financially though, they will probably need assistance for another 20 years just like the Swans. On that reckoning the AFL will want a team in Tassie for the start of the next TV deal which would be around 2026 season. That gives the 4 struggling Victorian teams 12 years to get their s*** in order, and for us it is New Zealand. Get that up and running to its full potential and we will be fine. Keep our heads in the sand like you are suggesting and then suffer the consequences. It's as simple as that really.

12 years is a long time and it was you who said things can change quickly. If 2 games instead of one saves us from going to Tassie I would be shocked. it will make no difference at all. Get it up and running to its full potential? What does that mean? NZ people couldnt give a stuff about our game. Thats reality. And there is no money in it for TV rights so the AFL also wont really give a stuff either. I doubt Tassie will happen at all IMO but if it did it will be the club in trouble in 10 to 20 years. 2 games in NZ wont matter.

[citywest]

As I said, I'm glad the club are not thinking like you. They are actively looking at ways to grow our club in order to SAVE our club.

1. Two games per year against non Victorian clubs means 2 fewer games at Etihad and the associated losses.
2. The aim would be to have 10,000 kiwi members by 2026.
3. Have our own dedicated Academy in New Zealand.
4. All New Zealanders who emigrate to Australia will already 'barrack' for St Kilda.

Win win win win IMHO but more importantly in the Pelican's opinion.

[plugger66]

As I said, I'm glad the club are not thinking like you. They are actively looking at ways to grow our club in order to SAVE our club.

1. Two games per year against non Victorian clubs means 2 fewer games at Etihad and the associated losses.
2. The aim would be to have 10,000 kiwi members by 2026.
3. Have our own dedicated Academy in New Zealand.
4. All New Zealanders who emigrate to Australia will already 'barrack' for St Kilda.

Win win win win IMHO but more importantly in the Pelican's opinion.

Has Pelchen said that? Sounds impreessive but i suggest its fanciful. NZ people dont care about footy and our club doesnt have enough money to promote the game over there so unless the AFL see benefits then nothing will happen. There is no money in it for TV rights so will the AFL care? I would hope the club are looking at ways to grow and save our club. Hope they arent relying on NZ though. And read my signature below.

[citywest]

so tell me how you would improve the membership table above then Plugger????

[Bunk_Moreland]

so tell me how you would improve the membership table above then Plugger????

Good question and I would go further than two games a year in NZ

I have set out in the past what I think

[plugger66]

so tell me how you would improve the membership table above then Plugger????

Good question and I would go further than two games a year in NZ

I have set out in the past what I think

We need to capitise on the good times which will come. We somehow failed last time which is pathtetic and said that many times. I dont think NZ have any interest in our game

[citywest]

So your answer is quote

capitise on the good times which will come.

Great answer Plugger. Why didn't I think of that?

[citywest]

so tell me how you would improve the membership table above then Plugger????

Good question and I would go further than two games a year in NZ

I have set out in the past what I think

Thanks for your support Joffaboy.

[plugger66]

So your answer is quote

capitise on the good times which will come.

Great answer Plugger. Why didn't I think of that?

Makes a lot more than increasing games in a country that has little or no interest in our game.

[Con Gorozidis]

Or club is in existential danger.

So I agree with most of citywests ideas that radical action is needed. Just going along thinking all is roses and 'well be right mate' wont work.

Where I differ with citywest is I think he/she way over-estimates the potential of NZ.
NZ is green and they have dairy but that is where the comparisons to Tassie end. It is not a 'bigger Tassie'.

NZ will never deliver major financial or membership improvements for any AFL club.

[saint-stu]

The raw numbers make it look worse that it maybe is.


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/a ... zr5tt.html

North Melbourne have more total members than us but they have much more proportion of reduced game memberships and much lower overall revenue from memberships. At least last year.

I wonder if they still have a lot of non-north supporters buying memberships to prop them up.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Or club is in existential danger.

So I agree with most of citywests ideas that radical action is needed. Just going along thinking all is roses and 'well be right mate' wont work.

Where I differ with citywest is I think he/she way over-estimates the potential of NZ.
NZ is green and they have dairy but that is where the comparisons to Tassie end. It is not a 'bigger Tassie'.

NZ will never deliver major financial or membership improvements for any AFL club.

I tend to disagree. We can play 6 home games a year there, get compensation by way of a development zone likeGWS and Sydney and Bris.

We can get compo for 11 and 16 memberships for the 6 games (against Melb teams all at Etihad).

We should also get financial compo.

All of this the AFL can do, and does for GWS and GC.

We are still the St.Klida Saints, play just as many home games in Melb, get compo and an advantage for all NZ kids coming through.

As I said all can be done by the AFL.

And P66 you are correct the Kiwis dont think much of the game. I lived inSydney when the Swans moved up and the Sydneysiders hated aerial ping pong.

The west of Sydney hate aerial ping pong. Like Sydney, GWS will be embraced in 10-20 years.

The Saints will also be embraced in that time frame by Kiwis

[Con Gorozidis]

Or club is in existential danger.

So I agree with most of citywests ideas that radical action is needed. Just going along thinking all is roses and 'well be right mate' wont work.

Where I differ with citywest is I think he/she way over-estimates the potential of NZ.
NZ is green and they have dairy but that is where the comparisons to Tassie end. It is not a 'bigger Tassie'.

NZ will never deliver major financial or membership improvements for any AFL club.

I tend to disagree. We can play 6 home games a year there, get compensation by way of a development zone likeGWS and Sydney and Bris.

We can get compo for 11 and 16 memberships for the 6 games (against Melb teams all at Etihad).

We should also get financial compo.

All of this the AFL can do, and does for GWS and GC.

We are still the St.Klida Saints, play just as many home games in Melb, get compo and an advantage for all NZ kids coming through.

As I said all can be done by the AFL.

And P66 you are correct the Kiwis dont think much of the game. I lived inSydney when the Swans moved up and the Sydneysiders hated aerial ping pong.

The west of Sydney hate aerial ping pong. Like Sydney, GWS will be embraced in 10-20 years.

The Saints will also be embraced in that time frame by Kiwis

You are mistaken. I have lived in Sydney, Brisbane and NZ (Melbourne for 80% of my life and also Perth, London and the US) . You cant compare NZ cities to Australian cities. It is an arrogant and ignorant position to just assume NZ will be colonised like Australian cities. It wont.

Now that doesnt mean I have given up on the NZ idea. I like the one match deal and I think it is all worth pursuing. But relying on it as a saviour will lead to serious disappointment.

[citywest]

Six games per year in New Zealand is pure madness my friend. If we do that then we may as well shut shop right now.

I believe the Saints will eventually extend it to 2 games per year and IMHO that is prefect. Any more than that and we are looking for trouble.

[plugger66]

Six games per year in New Zealand is pure madness my friend. If we do that then we may as well shut shop right now.

I believe the Saints will eventually extend it to 2 games per year and IMHO that is prefect. Any more than that and we are looking for trouble.

Didnt you want 4 or 5 just 2 months ago? Luckily our club dont just change their minds willy nilly.

[bergholt]

We need to capitise on the good times which will come. We somehow failed last time which is pathtetic and said that many times. I dont think NZ have any interest in our game

I don't think "no interest" is going to stop the AFL if they think there's money to be made over there.

I'm in Queensland at the moment. All my rellies here are adamant that no-one cares about Aussie Rules. I'm sure that's true for most of the state. Yet the AFL has put two teams here in the past thirty years.

Commercial reality isn't just about crowds and TV - it's also about having a bigger pool of sponsors to draw on. Not sure if that's the league's justification but I wouldn't rule out an NZ team in the foreseeable future.