Sliding Doors - we gave up Aaron Francis

[Bluthy]

We could have got Aaron Francis with our pick 5 that we traded with our second round to get Carlisle and Gresham.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-25/3 ... on-francis

The comparisons with Goddard/Hodge really worry me. A chance to get a versatile guy like that who can be a big unit running through the midfield but also set up play out of the back is something to me we were screaming out for. I really really really hope we don't rue this one.

Oh and here's what he's capable of currently

[Goose is king]

Trading always has risks involved.
I think we will win in the long term on this one.
Gresham may be better than Francis on his own.

[bigcarl]

Might be a win/win Bluthy. Gresh is showing signs of being something special and Carlisle we know is a quality tall.

But I agree we could do with a big-bodied explosive midfielder.

[Scollop]

Very happy with Gresh. Waiting with fingers and toes crossed on Carlisle. If he plays and performs to potential we win on the trade and the outcome

[8856brother]

I think Gresh will be better than Francis. Carlisle will be a handy steak knife. In 5-10 years we will all know the answer.

[ausfatcat]

but yet hasn't made his debut with the bottom team with half it's seniors out

[Bluthy]

People are really into the Gresh. He's defo shown some good signs like maneuverability. Just want to see him start hitting players regularly with his kicking that we were told was one of his strengths. He might have kept slipping to our 2nd rounder anyway - little mids haven't been in vogue much.

Just like the cut of Francis jib. I'm a big fan of going to the draft during the rebuild with high picks. Yes you will have some misses but you can also land superstars for 15 years. You can get too smart with trading out picks thinking you can do some cute stuff to maximise it all. Remember at the start of the rebuild we were all "Lets load up at the draft - best available please". Now suddenly we are all "we need a backmen, we need this, we need that" What happened to our initial ideals?

[Spinner]

People are really into the Gresh. He's defo shown some good signs like maneuverability. Just want to see him start hitting players regularly with his kicking that we were told was one of his strengths. He might have kept slipping to our 2nd rounder anyway - little mids haven't been in vogue much.

Just like the cut of Francis jib. I'm a big fan of going to the draft during the rebuild with high picks. Yes you will have some misses but you can also land superstars for 15 years. You can get too smart with trading out picks thinking you can do some cute stuff to maximise it all. Remember at the start of the rebuild we were all "Lets load up at the draft - best available please". Now suddenly we are all "we need a backmen, we need this, we need that" What happened to our initial ideals?

I'm over this hysteria of trading picks.

Carlisle and Gresham will be damn good.

If you want to pine picks - start with Dangerfield. At least he has played an afl game.

[Griggsy]

Is this a twisted Darcy Parish argument so we can't say he was gone at that pick.

[stevie]

Who is Aaron Francis?

[degruch]

Oh and here's what he's capable of currently

Unfortunately for him, he's not capable of much currently...injured...again.

Despite ex-resident self-appointed guru p66's bleatings, I reckon we could have easily forced the Carlisle trade to the PSD and kept our #5, even with the Hawks throwing their hat in the ring. It might have sounded like a juicy trade for the Dons, but there's no way the Hawks could have matched us.

However, there was a risk, so #5 in return for Carlisle and a bonus got the job done. I think next season we'll look the winner in the Carlisle/Parish/Francis/whoever scenario.

[Legendary]

Chris Fagan has said privately that the Hawks were happy to offer their first-rounder and trade Anderson to North. Carlisle told Clarko that he was happy to go to the Hawks, but wanted to give the Saints first chance to do a deal given we were his preferred option. All parties wanted to see the Bombers compensated with something, so any fantasy that he would have walked to the draft is just that - a fantasy.

Bizarre how people want to judge this trade now. Only about 5 years premature.

[Con Gorozidis]

but yet hasn't made his debut with the bottom team with half it's seniors out

He has been injured. Is going to be a star.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think Gresh will be better than Francis. Carlisle will be a handy steak knife. In 5-10 years we will all know the answer.

If Gresh ends up better than Francis Ill go nude down Bourke St Mall.
Carlisle better be good. That is all I will say on this.

[bigcarl]

If Gresh ends up better than Francis Ill go nude down Bourke St Mall.

Highlighted for posterity

[bigcarl]

. That is all I will say on this.

Also highlighted for posterity

[degruch]

If Gresh ends up better than Francis Ill go nude down Bourke St Mall.

Highlighted for prosperity

Do we really need to follow up on this? Really? If Congo goes down Bourke St Mall in the nude then no-one wins out of this trade.

[degruch]

Carlisle told Clarko that he was happy to go to the Hawks...

...then slammed the hotel door in Clarko's face and complained to the AFLPA about being harassed whilst on leave?

[bigcarl]

If Gresh ends up better than Francis Ill go nude down Bourke St Mall.

Highlighted for prosperity

Do we really need to follow up on this? Really? If Congo goes down Bourke St Mall in the nude then no-one wins out of this trade.

Posterity, not prosperity. Damn spell check

[Darth Vader]

If Gresh ends up better than Francis Ill go nude down Bourke St Mall.

Highlighted for prosperity

Do we really need to follow up on this? Really? If Congo goes down Bourke St Mall in the nude then no-one wins out of this trade.

Prosterity, not prosperity. Damn spell check

Might want to do one more spell check.

[bigcarl]

If Gresh ends up better than Francis Ill go nude down Bourke St Mall.

Highlighted for prosperity

Do we really need to follow up on this? Really? If Congo goes down Bourke St Mall in the nude then no-one wins out of this trade.

Prosterity, not prosperity. Damn spell check

Might want to do one more spell check.

yes, posterity. Good pick up. Piece of s*** iPhone

[Bluthy]

Carlisle and Gresham will be damn good.
.

And Francis and our second rounder wouldn't have been? Its just looking at the opportunity cost of the road we went down. I just hope they did a cold, hard calculation and not go all starry eyed and weak kneed when the 200cm strapping build of Jake Carlisle deigned to look in their direction with all the money falling out of our pockets.

The other advantage of the draft is that it can take several years for freshly drafted players to really start having a huge influence on the field. I don't know if you want to call it tanking or clever list management or deliberate bottoming out or whatever. But a couple more years of top 8 picks to get real elite talent on our books sounds mighty good to me. I know it can frustrating for supporters not to play finals but I'd rather we take a bit more time and do the rebuild right than end up like Port, Richmond or Collingwood. It also might get us out of GWS flag domination zone that is looking more and more likely.

[saintsRrising]

The thing is if the Saints had kept what turned out to be pick 6 that no one knows exactly who we ould have picked. Draft picks are rarely viewed later in life to be worth exactly that pick and will 5 years down the track to be better or worse than that pick.

Just because the Dons picked Francis does not mean that the Saints would have. Ah Chee, Milera, maybe even Gresham who knows?

What we do know is that Gresham at Pick 18 is looking to be excellent value for that pick.

What we hope is that Carlisle will play to the high level that he showed against the Dons. Even with Fisher and Dempster our backline has struggled againts tall forwards. so a player such as he can be is the type of player you can build your defense around. Ignoring Goddard's injury his progress has been slow and so that he can now be the No2 to player like Carlisle, rather than the No1 back looks to comfortaing.

I was certainly nervous about the Carlisle trade at the time. I am still a bit apprehensive of what he will be like when he starts training with us later this season. However if I had to call it right now I would say that the trade looks like a win for us. But yes we still need at least two gun mids if we want to progress.


Indeed from here on in if quality mids and more mids is not our priority I will be most surprised and disappointed as we now seem to have most bases covered:

Rucks: Hickey, Longer and Pierce as an emerging ruck/forward (One can possibly be traded to help gain the mid we need). Carlisle to also provide the No1 with breaks

Forwards: The emergence of Membrey so far this year, that McCartin showing enough that he can at least be solid if not good with what our other forwards have shown prides enough options to take us forward.
= Talls: Bruce, McCartin (and Carlisle to swing ig in trouble)
= Medium: Membrey
= Small/Normals: Lonie, Weller(defensive forward), Billings, Sinclair (these last 2 I see more as mids, but as both are goalkickers both should rotate forward).

Backs:
= Talls: Carlisle, Goddard >>>> And Coughlan is showing some promis
= Medium: Robo, Webster, (Gilbert-utility) >>>> White is showing promise
= Small: Geary , Savage, McKenzie >>>> Rice

Mids: Ok but only to be the new Richmond to finish 9th each year. We need some more top end talent.
= Elite: Steven (One is not enough)
= A Grade: Armo
= Ross, Newnes and Dunstan now look to be solid contributors. Ross keeps improving each year and so may be better than this. His form this year is encouraging.
= Billings: Elite with his kicking, but the rest of his game needs to improve.
= Gresh: Excites with his poise, but too early to call
= Sinclair. Not proven but I believe can bea mid.
= Freeman??? We desperately need his hammys to come good and for him to make it.

[bigcarl]

The thing is if the Saints had kept what turned out to be pick 6 that no one knows exactly who we ould have picked. Draft picks are rarely viewed later in life to be worth exactly that pick and will 5 years down the track to be better or worse than that pick.

Just because the Dons picked Francis does not mean that the Saints would have. Ah Chee, Milera, maybe even Gresham who knows?

What we do know is that Gresham at Pick 18 is looking to be excellent value for that pick.

What we hope is that Carlisle will play to the high level that he showed against the Dons. Even with Fisher and Dempster our backline has struggled againts tall forwards. so a player such as he can be is the type of player you can build your defense around. Ignoring Goddard's injury his progress has been slow and so that he can now be the No2 to player like Carlisle, rather than the No1 back looks to comfortaing.

I was certainly nervous about the Carlisle trade at the time. I am still a bit apprehensive of what he will be like when he starts training with us later this season. However if I had to call it right now I would say that the trade looks like a win for us. But yes we still need at least two gun mids if we want to progress.


Indeed from here on in if quality mids and more mids is not our priority I will be most surprised and disappointed as we now seem to have most bases covered:

Rucks: Hickey, Longer and Pierce as an emerging ruck/forward (One can possibly be traded to help gain the mid we need). Carlisle to also provide the No1 with breaks

Forwards: The emergence of Membrey so far this year, that McCartin showing enough that he can at least be solid if not good with what our other forwards have shown prides enough options to take us forward.
= Talls: Bruce, McCartin (and Carlisle to swing ig in trouble)
= Medium: Membrey
= Small/Normals: Lonie, Weller(defensive forward), Billings, Sinclair (these last 2 I see more as mids, but as both are goalkickers both should rotate forward).

Backs:
= Talls: Carlisle, Goddard >>>> And Coughlan is showing some promis
= Medium: Robo, Webster, (Gilbert-utility) >>>> White is showing promise
= Small: Geary , Savage, McKenzie >>>> Rice

Mids: Ok but only to be the new Richmond to finish 9th each year. We need some more top end talent.
= Elite: Steven (One is not enough)
= A Grade: Armo
= Ross and Dunstan now look to be solid contributors. Ross keeps improving each year and so may be better than this. His form this year is encouraging.
= Billings: Elite with his kicking, but the rest of his game needs to improve.
= Gresh: Excites with his poise, but too early to call
= Sinclair. Not proven but I believe can bea mid.
= Freeman??? We desperately need his hammys to come good and for him to make it.

Acres? What are your thoughts on him?

[To the top]

Thru life we are all confronted with decisions.

What you do is consider all known factors then make the decision - and in terms of what then transpires you always have the knowledge that you made any particular decision based on all available information at that time, so it was the correct decision then and remains the correct decision (including because you do not have the capacity to go back in time and make a different decision).

St Kilda had a very, very glaring deficiency in defence - it had no tall, experienced defender hence other sides were also exposing us by resting their rucks forward.

Carlisle, a 200cm defender with 85 games experience became available - and he was a few steps better than Dawson - so we went for him and constructed the best "deal" we could to ensure he came to St Kilda.

Our most glaring need for a key defender with size and ability was eased - and hopefully in concert with Goddard we have our defensive KPP's covered in primary terms.

So this revision is a nonsense.

Is Fisher, the kid from West Adelaide (noting Sam Fisher also came from West Adelaide) a 200cm key defender able to immediately step into the St Kilda League side and hold his own against the likes of Hogan, Cameron, Franklin et al?

That is the nonsense.