5 Elite Players Short
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- ace
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5 Elite Players Short
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/m ... 03ade7a068
According to Champion Data St Kilda is 5 elite players short of being contenders.
Elite is top 10% in your position
CHAMPION DATA 2017 LIST ANALYSIS
CLUB, ELITE, ABOVE AVERAGE, TOTAL
Western Bulldogs 6, 13, 19
GWS Giants 6, 11, 17
West Coast 6, 8, 14
Adelaide 4, 10, 14
Sydney 6, 7, 13
St Kilda 1, 11, 12
Collingwood 2, 10, 12
Port Adelaide 3, 7, 10
Melbourne 2, 8, 10
Hawthorn 5, 5, 10
Geelong 5, 4, 9
Fremantle 3, 6, 9
Richmond 3, 6, 9
Gold Coast 3, 5, 8
North Melbourne 1, 6, 7
Essendon 0, 7, 7
Carlton 2, 3, 5
Brisbane Lions 0, 3, 3
According to Champion Data St Kilda is 5 elite players short of being contenders.
Elite is top 10% in your position
CHAMPION DATA 2017 LIST ANALYSIS
CLUB, ELITE, ABOVE AVERAGE, TOTAL
Western Bulldogs 6, 13, 19
GWS Giants 6, 11, 17
West Coast 6, 8, 14
Adelaide 4, 10, 14
Sydney 6, 7, 13
St Kilda 1, 11, 12
Collingwood 2, 10, 12
Port Adelaide 3, 7, 10
Melbourne 2, 8, 10
Hawthorn 5, 5, 10
Geelong 5, 4, 9
Fremantle 3, 6, 9
Richmond 3, 6, 9
Gold Coast 3, 5, 8
North Melbourne 1, 6, 7
Essendon 0, 7, 7
Carlton 2, 3, 5
Brisbane Lions 0, 3, 3
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
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If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
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- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
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If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
- saintsRrising
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
Well what is an elite player?
I don't believe that they are accurate. Doggies did not have 6.
I reckon that we had 2 and not one.
5 more elite players would be nice, but it is unlikley.
If we can gain several more, including from what players we already have, that would be nice.
I don't believe that they are accurate. Doggies did not have 6.
I reckon that we had 2 and not one.
5 more elite players would be nice, but it is unlikley.
If we can gain several more, including from what players we already have, that would be nice.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
I think those numbers are very positive for the saints...saintsRrising wrote:Well what is an elite player?
I don't believe that they are accurate. Doggies did not have 6.
I reckon that we had 2 and not one.
5 more elite players would be nice, but it is unlikley.
If we can gain several more, including from what players we already have, that would be nice.
Firstly, Carlisle could easily slot straight into ``elite", particularly in marking!
Secondly, we have several players developing... Acres, Billings, Steele, Paddy, Gresh: all have a chance to move into elite territory in the next couple of years IMO
I take it with a grain of salt but I do like our position on that table...
Re: 5 Elite Players Short
So Champion Data thinks Jake Stringer is elite but at least one of Jack Steven and Nick Riewoldt is not.
- ace
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
They list 56 elite players that is 3.11 elite per club and another 130 above average players that is 7.22 above average per club.
We have 3.78 extra above average players but we are short 2.11 elite - that still makes us average at the moment.
We have 3.78 extra above average players but we are short 2.11 elite - that still makes us average at the moment.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
- Spinner
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
It's a great measure because it ranks players objectively across their position.
It's not the only measure but it is a consistent and objective view.
Riewoldt would get ranked with the midfielders now - hence prob not elite. And while the result is great with heaps of above average, we need players to make next step.
Who can this be? Gresham and McCartin are chances... And Ross if continues to grow. There'll be heaps of growth into the above average category (Steele, Billings, Acres, Dunstan, McKenzie) need a few to exceed that.
It's not the only measure but it is a consistent and objective view.
Riewoldt would get ranked with the midfielders now - hence prob not elite. And while the result is great with heaps of above average, we need players to make next step.
Who can this be? Gresham and McCartin are chances... And Ross if continues to grow. There'll be heaps of growth into the above average category (Steele, Billings, Acres, Dunstan, McKenzie) need a few to exceed that.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
On last years form Hickey would be well in the top 10% of ruckmen.
One year will be our year
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
The key I think is across the field balance, tenacity, a good level of skill with no weak links/ GOPs.
Elite players could weaken the balance overall by taking up a disproportionate share of the salary cap - which means by necessity a team of 5 or more elites will unavoidably end up with an over-representation of ordinary players.
Elite players could weaken the balance overall by taking up a disproportionate share of the salary cap - which means by necessity a team of 5 or more elites will unavoidably end up with an over-representation of ordinary players.
Last edited by samoht on Tue 01 Nov 2016 10:30am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
And Membrey would be in the top 10% of third tall forwards.longtimesaint wrote:On last years form Hickey would be well in the top 10% of ruckmen.
So there's 4 - Steven, Rooey, Hickey & Membrey
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
St Kilda - At least we have a Crest!
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
St Kilda - At least we have a Crest!
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
Character is important too!
We should aim to be the toughest team with the right mettle and with no weak links/GOPs.
A balanced team of B graders made of the sturdy stuff with no C graders. I'll be happy with that.
We should aim to be the toughest team with the right mettle and with no weak links/GOPs.
A balanced team of B graders made of the sturdy stuff with no C graders. I'll be happy with that.
Last edited by samoht on Tue 01 Nov 2016 2:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
It's November Stevie. Your 6 months of summer has began. Go out and get burnt and knock off your first slab of XXXX for the day and you'll have a laughstevie wrote:can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
Re: 5 Elite Players Short
If 'midfielder' is a position, how do you rank players in it? Centre clearances?Spinner wrote:Riewoldt would get ranked with the midfielders now
But if 'wing' is a position, I'd love to see anyone assert that Riewoldt wasn't the best player in that position in 2016.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
You are only as good as your last game. 21marks, 9 goals, Roo must be the best in the AFL!
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
I'd seriously like to see the 6 Bulldog players that they rank as 'elite'
Off the top of my head I can only think of The Bont. The Doggies were your classic 'team'. No real stars to rely on, just 22 very good footballers having a red hot crack. You could argue that Beveridge didn't do a great job in the H&A season as the doggies finished 6th - yet they apparently have the strongest list in the competition...... Tom Boyd wouldn't even have rated as above average, yet his finals series definitely was. A lot of players in their team played their best ever footy (Clay Smith, Picken) in the finals which is what you want your players doing. It's a credit to them, however unless this Champion data was taken in the finals only, it's a crock
Off the top of my head I can only think of The Bont. The Doggies were your classic 'team'. No real stars to rely on, just 22 very good footballers having a red hot crack. You could argue that Beveridge didn't do a great job in the H&A season as the doggies finished 6th - yet they apparently have the strongest list in the competition...... Tom Boyd wouldn't even have rated as above average, yet his finals series definitely was. A lot of players in their team played their best ever footy (Clay Smith, Picken) in the finals which is what you want your players doing. It's a credit to them, however unless this Champion data was taken in the finals only, it's a crock
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
If Champion Data doesn't rate Riewoldt elite on last season's form, then it has significant flaws.saint3d wrote:So Champion Data thinks Jake Stringer is elite but at least one of Jack Steven and Nick Riewoldt is not.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
What position do they classify him as?Linton Lodger wrote:If Champion Data doesn't rate Riewoldt elite on last season's form, then it has significant flaws.saint3d wrote:So Champion Data thinks Jake Stringer is elite but at least one of Jack Steven and Nick Riewoldt is not.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
saintspremiers wrote:It's November Stevie. Your 6 months of summer has began. Go out and get burnt and knock off your first slab of XXXX for the day and you'll have a laughstevie wrote:can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!
Lol lovely and overcast and hopefull rain here today! We've been lucky in that we had a late winter and skipped spring.
I don't drink (9 years now) but I wouldn't be drinking 'barbed wire' if I did, lol! And yeah i need some more laughs now as the whinging about no daylight saving has diminished!! WOOHOO!!!!
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
I don't know who Champion Data rates as elite, for the record I'll do some ratings.
I've done 2 groups, players on our list that are elite and then the ones that have shown they are potentially elite and could become so at any time from now, including as early as next season.
Currently Elite
Riewoldt, Steven, Montagna, Dempster, Carlisle, Hickey & Weller.
Potentially or Imminently Elite
Gresham, Billings, McCartin, Acres, Dunstan, Newnes, Ross, Webster, Roberton, Bruce, Membrey, White, Steele, K.Stevens, Lonie & Freeman.
I've done 2 groups, players on our list that are elite and then the ones that have shown they are potentially elite and could become so at any time from now, including as early as next season.
Currently Elite
Riewoldt, Steven, Montagna, Dempster, Carlisle, Hickey & Weller.
Potentially or Imminently Elite
Gresham, Billings, McCartin, Acres, Dunstan, Newnes, Ross, Webster, Roberton, Bruce, Membrey, White, Steele, K.Stevens, Lonie & Freeman.
Re: 5 Elite Players Short
Don't get me wrong, I like Weller but to call him elite is the biggest case of Rose Coloured Glasses the world has ever seen.Linton Lodger wrote:I don't know who Champion Data rates as elite, for the record I'll do some ratings.
I've done 2 groups, players on our list that are elite and then the ones that have shown they are potentially elite and could become so at any time from now, including as early as next season.
Currently Elite
Riewoldt, Steven, Montagna, Dempster, Carlisle, Hickey & Weller.
Potentially or Imminently Elite
Gresham, Billings, McCartin, Acres, Dunstan, Newnes, Ross, Webster, Roberton, Bruce, Membrey, White, Steele, K.Stevens, Lonie & Freeman.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
And I haven't checked lately, but I don't think Carlisle got too many possns in 2016
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- ace
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
Champion data use data not their opinion.Linton Lodger wrote:I don't know who Champion Data rates as elite, for the record I'll do some ratings.
They are the official data supplier to the AFL and clubs.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
I think this is a fair measure.
Having 11 above average is a very good sign. That makes us 3rd in the comp for above average players.
Being top 10% in your position is a very hard thing to do which I think is a good measure because commentators throw the word word 'elite' around way too easily for mine.
The good news is we have some potential elites. Carlisle can be elite. Hickey cant be far off it now. Acres, Steele and Ross are potential elite midfielders. Membrey cant be far off for his position either.
Having 11 above average is a very good sign. That makes us 3rd in the comp for above average players.
Being top 10% in your position is a very hard thing to do which I think is a good measure because commentators throw the word word 'elite' around way too easily for mine.
The good news is we have some potential elites. Carlisle can be elite. Hickey cant be far off it now. Acres, Steele and Ross are potential elite midfielders. Membrey cant be far off for his position either.
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Tue 01 Nov 2016 3:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
Elite Bulldogs players: Mitch Wallis, Marcus Bontempelli, Bob Murphy, Matthew Boyd, Jake Stringer, Luke Dahlhaus.stevie wrote:can someone put up the list of players plse? I love a good laugh!
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Re: 5 Elite Players Short
In theory it would be great to end up with 22 elite players.
But in practice a team probably can't afford to keep more than 8 elites in a team on $1 million plus each, without ending up with 8-10 GOPs on $150k each at the other end.
For every elite you'll probably end up with a GOP. ....similar to: for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So the elite-heavy teams (like GWS), once their elite youngsters mature and sign hefty new contracts, will end up with a soft underbelly of ordinary footballers that a team brim-full of good footballers (with only 1 or 2 elite) could exploit.
The elite-heavy teams will therefore not be able to dominate for any sustainable period... unless their elite are persuaded to play for "way unders".
It's never the "x" elite from team A vs the "y" elite from team B (where x and y are variables from 0 to 22 - representing the number of elite on each team) --- it's team A vs team B.
But in practice a team probably can't afford to keep more than 8 elites in a team on $1 million plus each, without ending up with 8-10 GOPs on $150k each at the other end.
For every elite you'll probably end up with a GOP. ....similar to: for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So the elite-heavy teams (like GWS), once their elite youngsters mature and sign hefty new contracts, will end up with a soft underbelly of ordinary footballers that a team brim-full of good footballers (with only 1 or 2 elite) could exploit.
The elite-heavy teams will therefore not be able to dominate for any sustainable period... unless their elite are persuaded to play for "way unders".
It's never the "x" elite from team A vs the "y" elite from team B (where x and y are variables from 0 to 22 - representing the number of elite on each team) --- it's team A vs team B.
Last edited by samoht on Tue 01 Nov 2016 4:03pm, edited 6 times in total.