Jason Gram

[SainterK]

How many score involvements did he have?

Personally, and just my opinion, I reckon that's what's keeping him in.

[WellardSaint]

"Potential" is one of those words heavy with import.
Gawd, Gram has the potential to be a great defender, but taking short steps and being a squib is just denying your teammates and being selfish.
Those of you who want to defend this pretender, can u tell us has he ever taken a courageous mark in defence or made a brave spoil.
Lots of fringe players from Melbourne, Richmond and other lower clubs have stepped up when they were on the spot, and been brave.
This man plays for HIMSELF not the team. NOT a good clubman.

[BigMart]

Teflon

You can have your opinion, but it is incorrect. This is evident by the fact that Gram is being selected weekly, if he was 'weak as piss' as you say.... Is Scott Watters and his team of 7 coaches wrong?! If they are, IMO they are incompetent for,asking a mistake of playing a dud for about 8 straight games now.... Surely there is enough evidence to suggest he should be dropped if he is as hopeless as you say??

Now, cheap kicks in AFL..... Come on, seriously.. A game at that level is not a walk on the park, when a player gets an uncontestested possession, is that 'cheap' or has he worked hard to gt to a position to find the footy in space?

Gram is not a quarter back, and as a rebounder often makes the call whether to attack or defend..... And often has to back his team mates and run off...

He had 10 contested possessions out of 20?? Problem with your argument is that statistically it doesn't stack up.

Question
How do you rate Sam Fisher defensively?? Does he stick many tackles, effect meany spoils, win contested ball???
You'd be surprised statistically

[Moccha]

Teflon

You can have your opinion, but it is incorrect.

Everyone else is wrong except you??

[Teflon]

Teflon

You can have your opinion, but it is incorrect. This is evident by the fact that Gram is being selected weekly, if he was 'weak as piss' as you say.... Is Scott Watters and his team of 7 coaches wrong?! If they are, IMO they are incompetent for,asking a mistake of playing a dud for about 8 straight games now.... Surely there is enough evidence to suggest he should be dropped if he is as hopeless as you say??

Now, cheap kicks in AFL..... Come on, seriously.. A game at that level is not a walk on the park, when a player gets an uncontestested possession, is that 'cheap' or has he worked hard to gt to a position to find the footy in space?

Gram is not a quarter back, and as a rebounder often makes the call whether to attack or defend..... And often has to back his team mates and run off...

He had 10 contested possessions out of 20?? Problem with your argument is that statistically it doesn't stack up.

Question
How do you rate Sam Fisher defensively?? Does he stick many tackles, effect meany spoils, win contested ball???
You'd be surprised statistically

I say this with all respect.... this post is CLEARLY written from the perspective of a guy who sits at home in the lounge room watching the game with only stats and now "but the coach picks him" to justify his opinion.

How bout I give you a tip? Try getting to and watching the game live once in a while, watch the lack of intensity, ability to bend over and pick up a ball or the inability to provide cover for a team mate under pressure?? These won't be on your stats sheet cause they go to effort which Gram IMO is selective with.

But the coach selects him.... So what?? Our last coach selected Rob Eddy in GFs.... what's that telling us now??

Everyone in the game knows the way modern footy has gone with extra defenders and kicks back/ sideways that "cheap kicks" are part if the game... don't compare these guys to you getting a kick out there.... These guys are professional footballers, of course there are cheap kicks and STATS in the game.

I have watched Sam Fisher stand up, take a goal saving mark in front of an oncoming pack countless times..... I can't recall the last time Gram did this can you???

Your argument doesn't stack up on stats, get along to a game FFS

[bergsone]

IMO he isnt showing enough to warrant a game.What is amazing is the love for this guy here.Sure we all have favourites,KOSI being one of mine,but imo isnt doing enough and if not for inj would have him out.

so you pick your fav 22,hope we have no inj,play em all year regardless of form?

[Kernal75]

With Newnes injured we don't have any choice.
Gram has been overrated for the last 3 years not to mention paid well overs. This guy would not be in the starting 22 if we had any real depth.
Move him on, retire him or delist him.....anything. Time for the next generation, not blokes who hang around on good coin just for the saek of it.

[plugger66]

Teflon

You can have your opinion, but it is incorrect. This is evident by the fact that Gram is being selected weekly, if he was 'weak as piss' as you say.... Is Scott Watters and his team of 7 coaches wrong?! If they are, IMO they are incompetent for,asking a mistake of playing a dud for about 8 straight games now.... Surely there is enough evidence to suggest he should be dropped if he is as hopeless as you say??

Now, cheap kicks in AFL..... Come on, seriously.. A game at that level is not a walk on the park, when a player gets an uncontestested possession, is that 'cheap' or has he worked hard to gt to a position to find the footy in space?

Gram is not a quarter back, and as a rebounder often makes the call whether to attack or defend..... And often has to back his team mates and run off...

He had 10 contested possessions out of 20?? Problem with your argument is that statistically it doesn't stack up.

Question
How do you rate Sam Fisher defensively?? Does he stick many tackles, effect meany spoils, win contested ball???
You'd be surprised statistically

I say this with all respect.... this post is CLEARLY written from the perspective of a guy who sits at home in the lounge room watching the game with only stats and now "but the coach picks him" to justify his opinion.

How bout I give you a tip? Try getting to and watching the game live once in a while, watch the lack of intensity, ability to bend over and pick up a ball or the inability to provide cover for a team mate under pressure?? These won't be on your stats sheet cause they go to effort which Gram IMO is selective with.

But the coach selects him.... So what?? Our last coach selected Rob Eddy in GFs.... what's that telling us now??

Everyone in the game knows the way modern footy has gone with extra defenders and kicks back/ sideways that "cheap kicks" are part if the game... don't compare these guys to you getting a kick out there.... These guys are professional footballers, of course there are cheap kicks and STATS in the game.

I have watched Sam Fisher stand up, take a goal saving mark in front of an oncoming pack countless times..... I can't recall the last time Gram did this can you???

Your argument doesn't stack up on stats, get along to a game FFS

Well i get to many games and see other things that are positive. Lets face it if you go into a game and look for the negative you will find it even with a guy like Lenny. Yes one coach can have favourites but has the last 3 coaches had the same favourite. Seems far fetched. Surely all those 3 coaches play the best side to win every game. it isnt as if we have been rebuilding since Grammy started with us so he gets a game because he is in the best side.

[spert]

The midfield have let us down in the last two matches, so drop them

[WellardSaint]

do yourselves a favour and include plugger66 in your "foes",
when he quotes someone's post, it's about as large as a cattle station.
Then along comes one line in response.

[plugger66]

do yourselves a favour and include plugger66 in your "foes",
when he quotes someone's post, it's about as large as a cattle station.
Then along comes one line in response.

i

[BigMart]

Moccha...... You forgot Scott Watters, is he wrong???

I'd love some of you to debate Watters, or Lyon for that matter on this point and watch you recoil and put the tail fair square between the legs..... After they embarrased you. Infact everone at StK FC would laugh off the pathetic s*** written on here about a 10 year 150+ game player, who has proven his ability. It's just ranting really.

Teflon

Do you think I've never been to the footy??
I played Sunday, so I couldnt go, but have gone this year, went last year, and have gone along since arriving in Melbourne in 97.

Can't go every week due to commitments, but go as often as I can.

[WellardSaint]

do yourselves a favour and include plugger66 in your "foes",
when he quotes someone's post, it's about as large as a cattle station.
Then along comes one line in response.

i

[WellardSaint]

BigMart"]Moccha...... You forgot Scott Watters, is he wrong???

Who else can they pick? It's not like we have depth ! Gram knows it...they keep picking him in the hope that he will actually wake up to himself and get the lead out.

[BigMart]

Farren Ray
TomLedger
Nicholas Winmar
Aaron Siposs
Jamie Cripps
Dean Polo
Tom Simpkin
Brett Peake
Jack Newnes

[vacuous space]

I would like to know how somebody as catastrophically soft as Gram supposedly is wins the amount of contested ball Gram actually does. There are only a handful of players at our club that win significantly more contested ball than he does per game. Most of the guys playing a similar role around the league get about the same as he does. If he's shirking contests or even if he's zoning off more than others I don't see how that's possible.

[Moods]

do yourselves a favour and include plugger66 in your "foes",
when he quotes someone's post, it's about as large as a cattle station.
Then along comes one line in response.

Not if he's making sense, which in this instance he is. No need to use a page when a couple of lines will suffice.

[The Craw]

I saw Gram defensively for 2 qtrs on Sunday....... ordinary is a nice way to put it. Had chances to "kill" the ball on numerous occasions by putting his body on the line and took another option.

It seems as though he picks and chooses when and when not to put his body on the line ... where as a player like Geary does it instinctively.

You can argue that both types of behavior results in the same kind of outcome but on this occasion it made Gram look substandard.

[WellardSaint]

Quite often a player is out of favour with the coaching panel, so even if they are doing well, they stay in the two's.
Why can't we be unhappy then, with someone that we think is underperforming ?

[Teflon]

Moccha...... You forgot Scott Watters, is he wrong???

I'd love some of you to debate Watters, or Lyon for that matter on this point and watch you recoil and put the tail fair square between the legs..... After they embarrased you. Infact everone at StK FC would laugh off the pathetic s*** written on here about a 10 year 150+ game player, who has proven his ability. It's just ranting really.

Teflon

Do you think I've never been to the footy??
I played Sunday, so I couldnt go, but have gone this year, went last year, and have gone along since arriving in Melbourne in 97.

Can't go every week due to commitments, but go as often as I can.

At least Id know they were at the ground....

[Teflon]

I saw Gram defensively for 2 qtrs on Sunday....... ordinary is a nice way to put it. Had chances to "kill" the ball on numerous occasions by putting his body on the line and took another option.

It seems as though he picks and chooses when and when not to put his body on the line ... where as a player like Geary does it instinctively.

You can argue that both types of behavior results in the same kind of outcome but on this occasion it made Gram look substandard.

Thats it exactly - enough people see it but apparently some obscure stat says what were seeing (on more than 1 occasion) is not what were really seeing and what we should be seeing is what were not.......

I'll put it this way - in a 1 on 1 , ball coming in , needing to be killed...........I have time and again seen Gram go to spoil....yet somehow either brush the ball or miss it completely. I do not see gram do what Raph Clarke did Sunday and nearly kill himself (not that I want Raph to kill himself) in an attempt to spoil. The same level of urgency just isnt there.

[SainterK]

If he warrants dropping he will be dropped.

Not sure why people think otherwise.

I thought he had a poor game, 3 forced omissions may save him and some others.

So to the disgust of some, I will cheer him on Satdee evening.

(though I reckon he and Schneider looked sore watching the replay)

[Teflon]

If he warrants dropping he will be dropped.

Not sure why people think otherwise.

I thought he had a poor game, 3 forced omissions may save him and some others.

So to the disgust of some, I will cheer him on Satdee evening.

(though I reckon he and Schneider looked sore watching the replay)

could be right and it was cold on sunday.....

[defacto]

I saw Gram defensively for 2 qtrs on Sunday....... ordinary is a nice way to put it. Had chances to "kill" the ball on numerous occasions by putting his body on the line and took another option.

It seems as though he picks and chooses when and when not to put his body on the line ... where as a player like Geary does it instinctively.

You can argue that both types of behavior results in the same kind of outcome but on this occasion it made Gram look substandard.

Thats it exactly - enough people see it but apparently some obscure stat says what were seeing (on more than 1 occasion) is not what were really seeing and what we should be seeing is what were not.......

I'll put it this way - in a 1 on 1 , ball coming in , needing to be killed...........I have time and again seen Gram go to spoil....yet somehow either brush the ball or miss it completely. I do not see gram do what Raph Clarke did Sunday and nearly kill himself (not that I want Raph to kill himself) in an attempt to spoil. The same level of urgency just isnt there.

well said!!!

clarke will kill himself for the team. yet gets bagged more than gram.

i'd rather have a bloke who will do that for the team than a bloke who wouldnt. sets the standard for players coming through!!!

[saintkid]

I say this with all respect.... this post is CLEARLY written from the perspective of a guy who sits at home in the lounge room watching the game with only stats and now "but the coach picks him" to justify his opinion.

How bout I give you a tip? Try getting to and watching the game live once in a while, watch the lack of intensity, ability to bend over and pick up a ball or the inability to provide cover for a team mate under pressure?? These won't be on your stats sheet cause they go to effort which Gram IMO is selective with.

But the coach selects him.... So what?? Our last coach selected Rob Eddy in GFs.... what's that telling us now??

Everyone in the game knows the way modern footy has gone with extra defenders and kicks back/ sideways that "cheap kicks" are part if the game... don't compare these guys to you getting a kick out there.... These guys are professional footballers, of course there are cheap kicks and STATS in the game.

I have watched Sam Fisher stand up, take a goal saving mark in front of an oncoming pack countless times..... I can't recall the last time Gram did this can you???

Your argument doesn't stack up on stats, get along to a game FFS

Exactly what he said about Gram. Watch him closely live. He is a squib and often costs the team goals with his piss poor efforts.