The Window Has Closed

[asiu]

Closed one millisecond after the final siren in 2010 GF1.

yep.

... and the public denial of that fact by the Club
started at linton st the morning after GF2.

[Scollop]

After 2009 GF we drafted Jesse Smith and Adam Pattison.....After 2010 GF2 I contemplated not renewing my membership when list clogger picks continued with Gamble and Polo.

Why was the club in denial? Because the messiah RL had a contract renewal coming up and he was pulling the strings. That's one of the main reasons I have a dislike for the bloke...faarcken Lyon not only failed to get the chocolates, but his legacy means the club rebuild is two or three years behind.

[plugger66]

After 2009 GF we drafted Jesse Smith and Adam Pattison.....After 2010 GF2 I contemplated not renewing my membership when list clogger picks continued with Gamble and Polo.

Why was the club in denial? Because the messiah RL had a contract renewal coming up and he was pulling the strings. That's one of the main reasons I have a dislike for the bloke...faarcken Lyon not only failed to get the chocolates, but his legacy means the club rebuild is two or three years behind.

How come people with no real allegiance rate RL as one of the top 3 coaches in the AFL and have for the last 5 years? And we got those players but we lost picks that were unlikely to help us now. Lets face it our drafting wasnt great anyway so RL probably thought they were worth the punt.

Maybe we should have got us a coach that didnt get those players and we still drafted crap and we didnt make either GF. Then you would be happy.

[joffaboy]

Closed one millisecond after the final siren in 2010 GF1.

yep.

... and the public denial of that fact by the Club
started at linton st the morning after GF2.

Have to agree.

Thought the moment the siren went - well at least another 5 year wait for a flag.

I KNEW we were spent and the replay would be a no chancer.

I grieved for our lost chances on 2004-2010 during the 2010-2011 summer.

Am getting close to halfway through my five year wait.

2015 is looking the time we may start to look like having a chance, but it may be longer.

[plugger66]

Closed one millisecond after the final siren in 2010 GF1.

yep.

... and the public denial of that fact by the Club
started at linton st the morning after GF2.

Have to agree.

Thought the moment the siren went - well at least another 5 year wait for a flag.

I KNEW we were spent and the replay would be a no chancer.

I grieved for our lost chances on 2004-2010 during the 2010-2011 summer.

Am getting close to halfway through my five year wait.

2015 is looking the time we may start to look like having a chance, but it may be longer.

Id like to think it was that close but by then we are unlikely to have Hayes, Milne, Blake, Rooy, Fisher and a very old Dal, Dempster and Joey. Cant see guys like Armo and Steven being as good as hayes and Dal. Ben will be a real bonus but then Milne, Rooy and Fisher need replacing and it will be tough for Stanley to be as good as Fisher and Saad or Milera to be as good as Milne and we have no one to replace Rooy. All those mentioned apart from Blake have been AA. Does any current mid aged player look like an AA prospect?

[dragit]

Id like to think it was that close but by then we are unlikely to have Hayes, Milne, Blake, Rooy, Fisher and a very old Dal, Dempster and Joey. Cant see guys like Armo and Steven being as good as hayes and Dal. Ben will be a real bonus but then Milne, Rooy and Fisher need replacing and it will be tough for Stanley to be as good as Fisher and Saad or Milera to be as good as Milne and we have no one to replace Rooy. All those mentioned apart from Blake have been AA. Does any current mid aged player look like an AA prospect?

I think we have put the steps in place to replace those guys… whether or not they are as good is yet to be seen, not much you can do about it though, you have to pick the best players available and hope for the best…

I reckon Saad is the best up and coming small forward going around… can't fault that pick-up

White & Lee were picked to replace Roo, both highly rated… though virtually impossible to replace Roo & if they were that good they would have gone at #1. Be nice to have a few very good key forwards instead of one superstar and a couple of hacks either side… we've paid the price of having one target that we monotonously hit up.

Stanley has the kit… his body is a real worry, just can't imagine him playing 22 games straight at this stage.

Replacing the mids is the next task… hopefully if we bottom out, we get some Cotchin, Omeara types into the club.

[Junction Oval]

Let's now focus on the "effort" and less on the "outcome," for this year. It's still nice to know that we "can" win if we play well.

The past 5 or 6 years have been great, compared to the Moorabbin years. What we don't want is 10 years of bottom 4, like Richmond and others. I would not like to be in Melbourne's situation - as a supporter, not even worth turning up to the rubbish that they are delivering.

[Scollop]

How come people with no real allegiance rate RL as one of the top 3 coaches in the AFL and have for the last 5 years?

Why did Essendon get rid of Sheeds even though he was one of the best coaches we've seen in the last 30 years?

Apart from some very valid arguments and everyone has their personal opinions on the reasons Essendon got rid of him, I have my own personal opinion on this....Essendon sacked him because they 'care' about the future.

People "with no real allegiance" for the St Kilda Footy Club couldn't give a toss about our club.

There are St Kilda supporters and even some neutral supporters and commentators who believe that the foundations for a winning team and success onfield were laid long before the messiah RL joined the StKFC. Just because we are in the minority doesn't make us wrong

[3rd generation saint]

One window closes, a new one will open, that has to be the focus now. This is where we will find out how good Pelchen and co are, and hopefully as good as we hope they are, regarding smart recruiting and building the next St.Kilda team to challenge for the prize.
We only have to look at Melbourne to see just how bad and can get, and I can't understand how some people on this forum want to retire some long serving players now after 2 weeks in the season, even if their prospects of senior football is limited in what will be their last year.
Just look at what happened to Melbourne getting rid of all their experienced players, then being betrayed by one of their recruits we the assistance of the governing body, that club has had the heart and soul ripped out of it and it is a long way back for them.
Even now on our way down, we are probably closer to a premiership then they are.

[plugger66]

How come people with no real allegiance rate RL as one of the top 3 coaches in the AFL and have for the last 5 years?

Why did Essendon get rid of Sheeds even though he was one of the best coaches we've seen in the last 30 years?

Apart from some very valid arguments and everyone has their personal opinions on the reasons Essendon got rid of him, I have my own personal opinion on this....Essendon sacked him because they 'care' about the future.

People "with no real allegiance" for the St Kilda Footy Club couldn't give a toss about our club.

There are St Kilda supporters and even some neutral supporters and commentators who believe that the foundations for a winning team and success onfield were laid long before the messiah RL joined the StKFC. Just because we are in the minority doesn't make us wrong

RL went at the right time for sure. RL is one of the best coaches in the AFL. He was part of the reason the Saints made 2 GF's. Both sides we played in the GF those years had more AA than us and certainly had a better bottom 6 but we somehow nearly won both. We lost both and because of that we can blame the coach. Its funny though that a coach that some say made so many mistakes had us in a position to win both GF's with less than 2 minutes to go.

[Scollop]

I agree that he went at the right time. I agree he was a part of the reason we made both GF's.

I don't agree with your last sentence because it implies he was the main reason or that without him we wouldn't have have climbed the heights...Once again, I believe that the foundations for were laid long before the messiah RL joined the StKFC.

REddy and AMcQ and Raph and SKing and Zac Dawson and Sean Dempster were a part of the reasons we made both GF's...could we have done it without them and could somenone else have done their job...Were they replaceable? You betcha!!

[plugger66]

I agree that he went at the right time. I agree he was a part of the reason we made both GF's.

I don't agree with your last sentence because it implies he was the main reason or that without him we wouldn't have have climbed the heights...Once again, I believe that the foundations for were laid long before the messiah RL joined the StKFC.

REddy and AMcQ and Raph and SKing and Zac Dawson and Sean Dempster were a part of the reasons we made both GF's...could we have done it without them and could somenone else have done their job...Were they replaceable? You betcha!!

Have a look at the list in 2005 and compare it to 2009. 2005 was a much better list and by a long way. We were unlucky with injuries but by 2009 our drafting was always going to be harder because of finishing high up for a long period.

And lets see how many who say watters cant coach when we are struggling over the next couple of years. Its our favourite game. Its the blame the coach game.

[Moods]

I'm an optimist.

I recall when Fisher started he looked, well, average. Look what he's turned into. I can see Stanley being as good, and possibly better. He is taller and has better athletic qualities. It's the intangibles like mindset, determination etc that you can't account for.

Armo and Stevens will both be good solid mids. Better than Lenny or Dal? Probably not. Joey was no superstar at the start though. Neither was Jobe Watson.

It's the replacement of Roo which will be a major headache. A quality consistent tall fwd like him is near impossible to replace.

I said last year that we would come to regret letting Zac go and so it has come to be. Finding a quality FB is the other issue.

[Scollop]

It is the players that are the main reason we got there NOT the coach. The coach was a bit player. The coach could have been Longmire or Scott or Hinkley or Sanderson and many other assistant coaches that were looking at a senior coaching role at the same time as Tossco. They might've got the chocolates, where as RL didn't.

I can handle losing the GF's although I would've preferred not to, and I can handle a coach making mistakes...what sh1ts me about Toss Lyon is his reluctance to be accountable and his blaming of his players with each and every interview after the fact. If it's not ok to blame the coach, why the f$%@ is it ok for him to blame the players??

I agree that SW and Pelchen need to be given every opportunity to finish the job. SW has come to us when we are clearly in rebuild mode. If we are not playing finals in 2014, 2015 or 2016 it doesn't necessarily mean that the coach needs to go.

[Junction Oval]

As I said on another thread, Geelong and the Saints have been in parallel positions over the past 6 or so years. Their transition planning and recruiting decisions have made us look like amateurs - they are far better "managed."

I think that our recent choice of Coach has been a good one for the Club. He will manage the team through this.
If you look at the earlier "high profile" coaching appointments of Mark Neeld and Brendan McCartney, I think that Scott can hold his head high. "Recruiting" will again be the crucial factor and is something that I am not so confident about.

[Moods]

"Recruiting" will again be the crucial factor and is something that I am not so confident about.

I'm far more confident about recruiting today than I was 4 years ago. Recent decisions have been good.

[darylcowie]

All this navel gazing and negativity got me thinking about how I felt after walking out of the MCG after the GF Replay and I have to say that two very positive things came to mind:

1. Amidst all of the wailing and weeping and gnashing of teeth that I witnessed in the gents while on my way out (after the siren mind you - yes I did stay until the bitter end), one very elderly Sainter stood proud in the middle of the room and said " Strength Through Loyalty Sainters, Strength Through Loyalty!". If an old-timer could summon up the courage to say that to his fellow Sainters in his darkest hour then it was good enough for me too!

2. After I got off the train full of miserable Sainters I got to thinking, so where can I find the silver lining in this very dark cloud?
Then it came to me like a flash! The filth were in exactly our position 7 years earlier and they were able to summon up the team to get the job done eventually! So I'll keep the last weekend in September 2017 free, just in case!

[8856brother]

All this navel gazing and negativity got me thinking about how I felt after walking out of the MCG after the GF Replay and I have to say that two very positive things came to mind:

1. Amidst all of the wailing and weeping and gnashing of teeth that I witnessed in the gents while on my way out (after the siren mind you - yes I did stay until the bitter end), one very elderly Sainter stood proud in the middle of the room and said " Strength Through Loyalty Sainters, Strength Through Loyalty!". If an old-timer could summon up the courage to say that to his fellow Sainters in his darkest hour then it was good enough for me too!

2. After I got off the train full of miserable Sainters I got to thinking, so where can I find the silver lining in this very dark cloud?
Then it came to me like a flash! The filth were in exactly our position 7 years earlier and they were able to summon up the team to get the job done eventually! So I'll keep the last weekend in September 2017 free, just in case!

That "old timer" most likely saw 66. He's probably content. I know I would be if I'd witnessed one. Us mid to late 40 year olds have done it pretty damn tough. Our first real memories are of the Late 70's and 80's when footy was fun, even though we were terrible and resembled Melbourne of today. We always thought we would win one eventually. Our time would come. I'm not as confidant anymore and I've definately turned into a grumpy old bastard.

[darylcowie]

I'm in my mid-forties too and I have to say that I was far more philosophical about our loss in 2010 (could have won) than 2009 (should have won), probably because we played well enough to win and we were the best team that year.
I still remember watching the 2009 prelim vs the dogs and even though it got mighty close I always thought we would prevail, I was that confident!
I think the older you get you still enjoy watching them play, but there are more things in life to enjoy than there were when we were younger and footy isn't the be-all and end-all that it once was.
I still remember a game we played against north in the late seventies at arden st that we led all day and they pipped us on the siren (I was inconsolable as a 10 year old, but it would be just another game nowadays).

[saintly]

Haven't given up on finals. Still far too much footy left. But happy with any win we nab - one week at a time. If we click at some stage and get a few in a row we're back in the hunt. Only difference is that finals will be a bonus now, rather than an expectation.

I hve given up on us making the finals. in fact. if we play like we did over the past 2 weeks. we just might might be 1 & 7

after GWS

there is essendon, sydney, collingwood, carlton, adelaide

[Teflon]

Surely, no one is surprised by our current situation. However, i think Watters knew where we stood the moment he walked in the door and along with Pelchen is trying to remedy the situation with a clear eye on developing a new group while getting every last drop out of the old guys. We all knew the recruiting and list management under
Lyon was close to the worst in the AFL and that it would bite us on the backside soon enough.

Thankfully, we have a realistic coach who has stated on radio that he will not be chasing 28 year olds during this re-build stage (unlike Melbourne). I'll be happy if he has the same philosophy on recruitment as Grant Thomas. Watters also stated that 1st round picks would be kept and used on the best young talent.


It's not the end of the world, merely the end of a cycle, and it can be turned around with good decisions. A couple of other clubs may find themselves in a similar situation in the next couple of years, notably Hawthorn. Long term success in the AFL is not winning premierships, it's maintaining a good to high level of performance year in, year out that keeps your supporters believing. This is why Collingwood was a success between 1959 and 1989 without winning the flag.

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing some new players in the mix, even if we're not winning as many games. We have no other choice. We must keep evolving. The past is where it belongs.

Good post.

It is an adjustment - just going to the footy knowing youre not really challenging but there to see glimmers of hope of new kids on the rise.

I can remember the buzz around us when Roo, Kosi, Ball, X, Goose, Dal all came and then the huge kick I got when I heard we'd landed Hammil and Gehrig.....I KNEW we were in for some fun and a flag was just a matter of time......and Harvs would get the right send off....

Ahh....tis a cruel game. Im even getting that death look from opposition supporters when they ask who i support....its always followed by .."yeah you guys were so close, had it the bag.....blah blah"........I just smile and inside tell then to get ****.

Yep, back to everyones second favourite team....the poor old Saints who just couldnt get it done when it mattered, unlike Bombers, Pies, Blues, Cats et al.....these guys just deliver cause they are used to success right?....in a weird way...us heading down to the bottom is like the world order being restored......I mean how can the Sainst really expect to deliver multiple flags of a history littered with failure?

Did I mention I was bitter?

[rexy]

You generally only watch through windows, they are tricky and can be time consuming to get through!
Doors are for going through and can be opened quickly!

[lewdogs]

I find this thread to be utter tripe.

There were good signs from our youngsters on Friday night. Yet Saintsational is full of doom and gloom. Boo hoo our window is closed we're such a s*** club etc. Grow a pair and show some faith.

[rexy]

I find this thread to be utter tripe.

There were good signs from our youngsters on Friday night. Yet Saintsational is full of doom and gloom. Boo hoo our window is closed we're such a s*** club etc. Grow a pair and show some faith.

Agreed

[Teflon]

I find this thread to be utter tripe.

There were good signs from our youngsters on Friday night. Yet Saintsational is full of doom and gloom. Boo hoo our window is closed we're such a s*** club etc. Grow a pair and show some faith.

Great post !

I loved that new kid in his 6th years effort - B McEvoy.....is he still a kid?
What about the big blonde kid who kicked 4 with a dodgy knee to keep us in it???.......just wait till he grows into his skin....

And thank god for young Blakey down back!!!

Spare us the mayo...