Re-Worded!!!! - List strategy for next 3 years.....

[8856brother]

Can someone please phone to confirm legitimacy.

[citywest]

The following 9 players need to be replaced over the next 3 drafts......
Arryn Siposs,Tom Lee, Daniel Markworth, Leigh Montagna, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert, Farren Ray, Sean Dempster, Sam Fisher

We will probably have 3 top 10 picks over the next 3 years. So the question is, how do we trade up to grab another 3 in the top 10 (over the next 3 years) and also 3 more picks under pick 25? Ideally I would want the following added to the current list below (at a minimum)...Picks 1,15 and 20 from 2015's draft. Picks 5, 25 and 30 in 2016's draft. Picks 10, 15 and 25 in 2017's draft.

Will Lewis Pierce improve enough to gain us a pick in the top 20 in 3 years time? What about Armo? If Richmond come again and offer pick 15 should we take it? The obvious one is Steven. If he walks we will get pick 2.

THE LIST BELOW ARE ALL REQUIRED PLAYERS.The question I was trying to ask was which players from the list below can we afford to trade out to improve our draft position over the next 3 years? The reason why I ask this is if we just go to the draft each year without trading I don't believe we have any hope of overtaking GCS and GWS. Especially GWS who are already looking scary.
Tom Hickey
Jack Steven
Eli Templeton
Shane Savage
Sebastian Ross
Luke Dunstan
Blake Acres
Jarryn Geary
Jack Billings
Jack Newnes
Dylan Roberton
Billy Longer
David Armitage
Luke Delaney
Spencer White
Tom Curren
Josh Bruce
Tim Membrey
Jimmy Webster
Brodie Murdoch
Tom Simpkin
Paddy McCartin
Hugh Goddard
Nathan Wright
Josh Saunders
Daniel McKenzie
Jack Lonie
Cameron Shenton
Darren Minchington
Lewis Pierce
Maverick Weller

[plugger66]

The following 9 players need to be replaced over the next 3 drafts......
Arryn Siposs,Tom Lee, Daniel Markworth, Leigh Montagna, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert, Farren Ray, Sean Dempster, Sam Fisher

We will probably have 3 top 10 picks over the next 3 years. So the question is, how do we trade up to grab another 3 in the top 10 (over the next 3 years) and also 3 more picks under pick 25? Ideally I would want the following added to the current list below (at a minimum)...Picks 1,15 and 20 from 2015's draft. Picks 5, 25 and 30 in 2016's draft. Picks 10, 15 and 25 in 2017's draft.

Will Lewis Pierce improve enough to gain us a pick in the top 20 in 3 years time? What about Armo? If Richmond come again and offer pick 15 should we take it? The obvious one is Steven. If he walks we will get pick 2.

THE LIST BELOW ARE ALL REQUIRED PLAYERS.The question I was trying to ask was which players from the list below can we afford to trade out to improve our draft position over the next 3 years? The reason why I ask this is if we just go to the draft each year without trading I don't believe we have any hope of overtaking GCS and GWS. Especially GWS who are already looking scary.
Tom Hickey
Jack Steven
Eli Templeton
Shane Savage
Sebastian Ross
Luke Dunstan
Blake Acres
Jarryn Geary
Jack Billings
Jack Newnes
Dylan Roberton
Billy Longer
David Armitage
Luke Delaney
Spencer White
Tom Curren
Josh Bruce
Tim Membrey
Jimmy Webster
Brodie Murdoch
Tom Simpkin
Paddy McCartin
Hugh Goddard
Nathan Wright
Josh Saunders
Daniel McKenzie
Jack Lonie
Cameron Shenton
Darren Minchington
Lewis Pierce
Maverick Weller

And if we get rid of our best players every year to improve our picks we have even less hope of improving. I have asked you this before but what happens if in 4 years time we are still way off a flag, do we then get rid of more of our better players than? I think your ideas are plainly silly especially as you claim to be a Saints supporter.

[borderbarry]

The query re our four ruckmen is worth thinking about. We have four ruckmen, all young, and all potential 1st ruckmen. If we are to trade anyone this is surely the area we we should be able to spare a player from.

[PJ]

If you get rid of our better players (Steven, Armo, etc) we will look like GWS but without the elite kids and without the development - in other words we wouldn't look AFL standard.

Expect to sit at the bottom of the ladder for the next 10 years and expect that we will probably not be around for much longer.

[Linton Lodger]

Citywest has missed his/her calling. Surely they'd make a List Manager par excellence.

[BackFromUSA]

The following 9 players need to be replaced over the next 3 drafts......
Arryn Siposs,Tom Lee, Daniel Markworth, Leigh Montagna, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Gilbert, Farren Ray, Sean Dempster, Sam Fisher

We will probably have 3 top 10 picks over the next 3 years. So the question is, how do we trade up to grab another 3 in the top 10 (over the next 3 years) and also 3 more picks under pick 25? Ideally I would want the following added to the current list below (at a minimum)...Picks 1,15 and 20 from 2015's draft. Picks 5, 25 and 30 in 2016's draft. Picks 10, 15 and 25 in 2017's draft.

Will Lewis Pierce improve enough to gain us a pick in the top 20 in 3 years time? What about Armo? If Richmond come again and offer pick 15 should we take it? The obvious one is Steven. If he walks we will get pick 2.

THE LIST BELOW ARE ALL REQUIRED PLAYERS.The question I was trying to ask was which players from the list below can we afford to trade out to improve our draft position over the next 3 years? The reason why I ask this is if we just go to the draft each year without trading I don't believe we have any hope of overtaking GCS and GWS. Especially GWS who are already looking scary.
Tom Hickey
Jack Steven
Eli Templeton
Shane Savage
Sebastian Ross
Luke Dunstan
Blake Acres
Jarryn Geary
Jack Billings
Jack Newnes
Dylan Roberton
Billy Longer
David Armitage
Luke Delaney
Spencer White
Tom Curren
Josh Bruce
Tim Membrey
Jimmy Webster
Brodie Murdoch
Tom Simpkin
Paddy McCartin
Hugh Goddard
Nathan Wright
Josh Saunders
Daniel McKenzie
Jack Lonie
Cameron Shenton
Darren Minchington
Lewis Pierce
Maverick Weller

And if we get rid of our best players every year to improve our picks we have even less hope of improving. I have asked you this before but what happens if in 4 years time we are still way off a flag, do we then get rid of more of our better players than? I think your ideas are plainly silly especially as you claim to be a Saints supporter.

Agree 100% especially in a day and age of free agency. Giants and Suns will be weakened by other clubs raids especially when we are in our window which will coincide with free agency for the Suns guns and then the Giants- hopefully we shall get some icing on our cake then.

[BackFromUSA]

The query re our four ruckmen is worth thinking about. We have four ruckmen, all young, and all potential 1st ruckmen. If we are to trade anyone this is surely the area we we should be able to spare a player from.

Only 2 will be trade worthy. Maybe 3. Will want to keep 3 to 4 on the list.

Would be crazy to trade Pierce. Potentially he's of the lot. Lovely hands. True footballer. Needs to keep building his body.

[saynta]

Can't tell if a troll job or dumb as a post

I'd suggest both.

Well, I read his post, then reread it. I've come to the conclusion that you are right.

[skeptic]

I'd still like to hear an actual strategy?

[saintspremiers]

Persoanlly I dont agree with the strategy of the OP however it is his opinion.

Answered by many rationally and reasonably here.

In summary - we have only 1 or 2 players of real trade value and we need to keep them.

We shall get 3 great picks in the next 3 years and 3 low to mid 20s picks + / or trades using pics

And we shall get some 25-28 year olds via free agency - some super stars and some for positional depth

That will get us into apostion in 3 years time where our core list will be 22 to 28 years of age with some top end 18 -21 year olds coming through.

From there on in our drafting should be:

- keep 1st round and pick best available
- trade 2nd round (for needs)
- with 3rd round pick a bottom aged kid that has shown real catch up potential e.g. Jack Stevens
- keep churning over rookies

I actually think with the way our injuries are mounting - and with the possibility of Roo taking extended leave - that we may well struggle to win a game this year - if that happens we might end up getting pick one and a priority pick next year. With these injuries I can see us having a year like 2001 or 1986.

Roo extended leave?

Is that a guess or a report?

I'd be amazed if he's not back for round 1

[cwrcyn]

The reality is that we won't be in a position to move a lot of players on, which restricts our ability to trade. With so many players in that development stage, who do you cut? I can only see us delisting 3 to 4 players each year for the next 5 years. With a requirement to draft a minimum of three players each year, that leaves very little room to trade or take on free agents. Delisteing and retirements may look something like this over the next few years:

2015: Fisher, Siposs, Simpkin
2016: Riewoldt, Ray, Dempster
2017: Montagna, Gilbert, Curren?

There's likely to be one other youngster, maybe two at the most cut in each of those year

[dragit]

The reality is that we won't be in a position to move a lot of players on, which restricts our ability to trade. With so many players in that development stage, who do you cut? I can only see us delisting 3 to 4 players each year for the next 5 years. With a requirement to draft a minimum of three players each year, that leaves very little room to trade or take on free agents. Delisteing and retirements may look something like this over the next few years:

2015: Fisher, Siposs, Simpkin
2016: Riewoldt, Ray, Dempster
2017: Montagna, Gilbert, Curren?

There's likely to be one other youngster, maybe two at the most cut in each of those year

I think you are being pretty generous to our younger players, half of which probably won't make it…

Players also facing the chop in the next 3 years include:
Lee, White, Minchington, Shenton, Roberton, Markworth, Schneider, Saunders, Murdoch even Ross & Weller haven't really proved themselves yet.

Can't see us having all of Hickey, Longer, Pierce & Homes in 4 years time either.

Hopefully some of the above become good AFL footballers, but I would be surprised if we didn't bring in at least 5 new players each year - more likely 6-7 each year, it's not as if we are flush with talent.

[plugger66]

The reality is that we won't be in a position to move a lot of players on, which restricts our ability to trade. With so many players in that development stage, who do you cut? I can only see us delisting 3 to 4 players each year for the next 5 years. With a requirement to draft a minimum of three players each year, that leaves very little room to trade or take on free agents. Delisteing and retirements may look something like this over the next few years:

2015: Fisher, Siposs, Simpkin
2016: Riewoldt, Ray, Dempster
2017: Montagna, Gilbert, Curren?

There's likely to be one other youngster, maybe two at the most cut in each of those year

I think you are being pretty generous to our younger players, half of which probably won't make it…

Players also facing the chop in the next 3 years include:
Lee, White, Minchington, Shenton, Roberton, Markworth, Schneider, Saunders, Murdoch even Ross & Weller haven't really proved themselves yet.

Can't see us having all of Hickey, Longer, Pierce & Homes in 4 years time either.

Hopefully some of the above become good AFL footballers, but I would be surprised if we didn't bring in at least 5 new players each year - more likely 6-7 each year, it's not as if we are flush with talent.

Have to agree. We will have plenty to move on no matter how young they are. You just need to try and pick the right ones.

[gringo]

The reality is that we won't be in a position to move a lot of players on, which restricts our ability to trade. With so many players in that development stage, who do you cut? I can only see us delisting 3 to 4 players each year for the next 5 years. With a requirement to draft a minimum of three players each year, that leaves very little room to trade or take on free agents. Delisteing and retirements may look something like this over the next few years:

2015: Fisher, Siposs, Simpkin
2016: Riewoldt, Ray, Dempster
2017: Montagna, Gilbert, Curren?

There's likely to be one other youngster, maybe two at the most cut in each of those year

I think you are being pretty generous to our younger players, half of which probably won't make it…

Players also facing the chop in the next 3 years include:
Lee, White, Minchington, Shenton, Roberton, Markworth, Schneider, Saunders, Murdoch even Ross & Weller haven't really proved themselves yet.

Can't see us having all of Hickey, Longer, Pierce & Homes in 4 years time either.

Hopefully some of the above become good AFL footballers, but I would be surprised if we didn't bring in at least 5 new players each year - more likely 6-7 each year, it's not as if we are flush with talent.

Have to agree. We will have plenty to move on no matter how young they are. You just need to try and pick the right ones.

It's a minimum of 5 changes every year anyway isn't it?

[Dr Spaceman]

The reality is that we won't be in a position to move a lot of players on, which restricts our ability to trade. With so many players in that development stage, who do you cut? I can only see us delisting 3 to 4 players each year for the next 5 years. With a requirement to draft a minimum of three players each year, that leaves very little room to trade or take on free agents. Delisteing and retirements may look something like this over the next few years:

2015: Fisher, Siposs, Simpkin
2016: Riewoldt, Ray, Dempster
2017: Montagna, Gilbert, Curren?

There's likely to be one other youngster, maybe two at the most cut in each of those year

I think you are being pretty generous to our younger players, half of which probably won't make it…

Players also facing the chop in the next 3 years include:
Lee, White, Minchington, Shenton, Roberton, Markworth, Schneider, Saunders, Murdoch even Ross & Weller haven't really proved themselves yet.

Can't see us having all of Hickey, Longer, Pierce & Homes in 4 years time either.

Hopefully some of the above become good AFL footballers, but I would be surprised if we didn't bring in at least 5 new players each year - more likely 6-7 each year, it's not as if we are flush with talent.

Have to agree. We will have plenty to move on no matter how young they are. You just need to try and pick the right ones.

It's a minimum of 5 changes every year anyway isn't it?

Thought it was 3 and that the 3 could include a Rookie upgrade.

[cwrcyn]

The hard part is picking which of the youngsters get shown the door when so many are in that 50/50 zone and are the same age. It's going to require some very astute assessments by our list managers. I can't see a wholesale clean out until the end of 2017 at the earliest.

of Dragit's list.....

Lee...could go either way
White...could go either way
Minchington....low percentage of success
Shenton...likely to stay
Roberton...likely to stay
Markworth..low percentage of staying
Schneider...not on our main list
Saunders....40% chance of making it
Murdoch... same as Saunders
Ross... likely to stay
Weller..likely to stay, but not be influential

[plugger66]

The reality is that we won't be in a position to move a lot of players on, which restricts our ability to trade. With so many players in that development stage, who do you cut? I can only see us delisting 3 to 4 players each year for the next 5 years. With a requirement to draft a minimum of three players each year, that leaves very little room to trade or take on free agents. Delisteing and retirements may look something like this over the next few years:

2015: Fisher, Siposs, Simpkin
2016: Riewoldt, Ray, Dempster
2017: Montagna, Gilbert, Curren?

There's likely to be one other youngster, maybe two at the most cut in each of those year

I think you are being pretty generous to our younger players, half of which probably won't make it…

Players also facing the chop in the next 3 years include:
Lee, White, Minchington, Shenton, Roberton, Markworth, Schneider, Saunders, Murdoch even Ross & Weller haven't really proved themselves yet.

Can't see us having all of Hickey, Longer, Pierce & Homes in 4 years time either.

Hopefully some of the above become good AFL footballers, but I would be surprised if we didn't bring in at least 5 new players each year - more likely 6-7 each year, it's not as if we are flush with talent.

Have to agree. We will have plenty to move on no matter how young they are. You just need to try and pick the right ones.

It's a minimum of 5 changes every year anyway isn't it?

Its 3 picks including rookie upgrades.

[citywest]

No love for my post but that's ok. Like I said, if we just go to the Draft each year without making smart trades to improve our picks, we will not come within a bulls roar of GWS and GCS. I firmly believe we need to manufacture the same sort of trades/FA's as BJ, Dal, McEvoy and Rhys. The 2 logical ones for me would be to allow Steven to walk as a FA and gleefully accept pick 2 and if Richmond (or any other team) offer pick 15 or better for Armo then take it with both hands. With our list another year older they would be able to absorb these 2 losses. By this I mean we wouldn't be any worse in 2016 because of those 2 players leaving. It may keep us in the bottom 4 for an extra year but that in itself wouldn't be a bad thing either giving us another top 4 pick again in 2017.

Just remember that even though GWS and GCS received all those early picks when they started up, they are still getting more and more high picks even to this day. The last 2 years St Kilda have done really well in the draft but just have a look at what GWS and GCS have also done. I suspect the draft has been even more lucrative for them than us and then when you throw in their start-up picks you will soon realize that when their window opens it will stay open for more than a decade. So when the Saints hit their peak in 2020 we will run smack bang into them.

If anyone can be bothered, please list the players that GWS, GCS and St Kilda have picked up over the last 2 years. Bearing in mind our last 2 years has been exceptional, it will be interesting to see the comparison.

[plugger66]

No love for my post but that's ok. Like I said, if we just go to the Draft each year without making smart trades to improve our picks, we will not come within a bulls roar of GWS and GCS. I firmly believe we need to manufacture the same sort of trades/FA's as BJ, Dal, McEvoy and Rhys. The 2 logical ones for me would be to allow Steven to walk as a FA and gleefully accept pick 2 and if Richmond (or any other team) offer pick 15 or better for Armo then take it with both hands. With our list another year older they would be able to absorb these 2 losses. By this I mean we wouldn't be any worse in 2016 because of those 2 players leaving. It may keep us in the bottom 4 for an extra year but that in itself wouldn't be a bad thing either giving us another top 4 pick again in 2017.

Just remember that even though GWS and GCS received all those early picks when they started up, they are still getting more and more high picks even to this day. The last 2 years St Kilda have done really well in the draft but just have a look at what GWS and GCS have also done. I suspect the draft has been even more lucrative for them than us and then when you throw in their start-up picks you will soon realize that when their window opens it will stay open for more than a decade. So when the Saints hit their peak in 2020 we will run smack bang into them.

If anyone can be bothered, please list the players that GWS, GCS and St Kilda have picked up over the last 2 years. Bearing in mind our last 2 years has been exceptional, it will be interesting to see the comparison.

You list them. Can I just say you have told us this at least 20 times. The only explanation I can come up for why you keep saying it is to bait people. There is no other option unless you have some issues that we don't know about. Get it through you head that Steven needs to stay even if its for the morale of the supporters. Now please run away.

[skeptic]

No love for my post but that's ok. Like I said, if we just go to the Draft each year without making smart trades to improve our picks, we will not come within a bulls roar of GWS and GCS. I firmly believe we need to manufacture the same sort of trades/FA's as BJ, Dal, McEvoy and Rhys. The 2 logical ones for me would be to allow Steven to walk as a FA and gleefully accept pick 2 and if Richmond (or any other team) offer pick 15 or better for Armo then take it with both hands. With our list another year older they would be able to absorb these 2 losses. By this I mean we wouldn't be any worse in 2016 because of those 2 players leaving. It may keep us in the bottom 4 for an extra year but that in itself wouldn't be a bad thing either giving us another top 4 pick again in 2017.

A top 4 pick for what purpose?

To develop into a good player to then trade off for two top picks??

Are you saying that Steven isn't that good a player and we should get what we can for him now?

Sorry CW but I don't get what you're saying.

Is your strategy to have a whole team of top 10 picks?

All you seem to want to do is trade players for picks for players

[dragit]

The 2 logical ones for me would be to allow Steven to walk as a FA and gleefully accept pick 2 and if Richmond (or any other team) offer pick 15 or better for Armo then take it with both hands. With our list another year older they would be able to absorb these 2 losses. By this I mean we wouldn't be any worse in 2016 because of those 2 players leaving.

I should know better than to engage your posts but…

Armo & Steven will be in our best 3-4 players in 2016… logic would suggest that we will be far worse if both players were traded. That's when you go from 80 point floggings to 150 point floggings, but I get the feeling you would kind of like that.

[matrix]

you know someones taking the piss when they quote their own friggin original opening post that started the thread...and then not comment
just a requote

oh but its an opinion says the kind controller
and the forum shakes its head at the troll lover who sees the goody goodness in everyone

[Stephen Theodore]

No love for my post but that's ok. Like I said, if we just go to the Draft each year without making smart trades to improve our picks, we will not come within a bulls roar of GWS and GCS. I firmly believe we need to manufacture the same sort of trades/FA's as BJ, Dal, McEvoy and Rhys. The 2 logical ones for me would be to allow Steven to walk as a FA and gleefully accept pick 2 and if Richmond (or any other team) offer pick 15 or better for Armo then take it with both hands. With our list another year older they would be able to absorb these 2 losses. By this I mean we wouldn't be any worse in 2016 because of those 2 players leaving. It may keep us in the bottom 4 for an extra year but that in itself wouldn't be a bad thing either giving us another top 4 pick again in 2017.

Just remember that even though GWS and GCS received all those early picks when they started up, they are still getting more and more high picks even to this day. The last 2 years St Kilda have done really well in the draft but just have a look at what GWS and GCS have also done. I suspect the draft has been even more lucrative for them than us and then when you throw in their start-up picks you will soon realize that when their window opens it will stay open for more than a decade. So when the Saints hit their peak in 2020 we will run smack bang into them.

If anyone can be bothered, please list the players that GWS, GCS and St Kilda have picked up over the last 2 years. Bearing in mind our last 2 years has been exceptional, it will be interesting to see the comparison.

You list them. Can I just say you have told us this at least 20 times. The only explanation I can come up for why you keep saying it is to bait people. There is no other option unless you have some issues that we don't know about. Get it through you head that Steven needs to stay even if its for the morale of the supporters. Now please run away.

+ 1

Entire post is obvious baiting.

[citywest]

you know someones taking the piss when they quote their own friggin original opening post that started the thread...and then not comment
just a requote

oh but its an opinion says the kind controller
and the forum shakes its head at the troll lover who sees the goody goodness in everyone

Hey matrix, please make sure you get your facts right before commenting. I edited my OP so that is why I quoted it to ensure others knew it was edited. However you would only have known that if you had bothered to read all the other posts instead of just jumping in and accusing me of being a troll and also having a go at the Mods.