Training - Friday December 16

[saintsRrising]

Cordy is still recovering from getting completely legless on Mad Monday, it appears. He's going to have to really push himself hard after Christmas to get himself in contention for round one. Ross doesn't entertain playing guys whose fitness is sub-par.

Doesn’t Troy Schwarze know it.

Frankly the fact that he’s getting a second chance is a sign that RTB has mellowed a bit over the years

What has RTB got to do with it? We picked up Cordy, before we gained RTB back.

[Yorkeys]

Bulldogs didn't cut Mr Cordy did they, didn't he shop himself as a free agent because he was dissatisfied with them?
Suggesting he is on the rebound or second chancing seems a bit of a misrepresentation, yes?

[saintsRrising]

Bulldogs didn't cut Mr Cordy did they, didn't he shop himself as a free agent because he was dissatisfied with them?
Suggesting he is on the rebound or second chancing seems a bit of a misrepresentation, yes?

Bottom line is that the Dogs are now loaded with tall key position players. Cordy would have only been depth at the Dogs in 2023 if he had of stayed and he knew it. Whether he jumped, or was pushed, he was going to be on the outer at the Dogs in 2023. So it would seem to me that yes St Kilda is a second chance for him to resurrect his career. Though his lacklustre training form means that he better pull his finger out if he wants to grab it.

Jones 199 will be their FB.

Keath 197 will be the intercepting back

Gardner 197 played 22 games in 2022

Darcy 204 being groomed to play down back.



Up forward Naughton 195, Lobb 207, Ugle 197 and Bruce 198 do not all fit in.

So Cordy at 195 in 2023 at the Dogs was going to be well and truly on the outer if he had of remained at the Dogs..

[Teflon]

Geez scary line up
If they don’t play finals/top 4 something is wrong
Throw in their midfield…

[damienc]

A question. You mentioned a couple of the newbies. Wondering how the rest of them are doing? Mattaes P for example?

[skeptic]

The joke was that in 07, RL walked through the door and sacked the first player that really lagged behind in fitness and that he hasn’t done that this time.

And obviously he couldn’t with contracts etc but I really wasn’t going for a case by case analysis of differences btw now and 07 6 weeks weeks into his regimen

It was meant to be a light hearted prod

Evidently we have a very very serious crowd here

[wally]

Surely Cordy is only depth with us anyway can’t see him as in our best 23

[Yorkeys]

Geez scary line up
If they don’t play finals/top 4 something is wrong
Throw in their midfield…

So what does that mean re Freo who gave Dogs a 5 goal quarter time start in the elimination final and finished 2 in front.

Keith is average. Ugle-Hagen had one good game. Dogs fell into the 8 by luck more than management.

Fair suck, Dogs are not going so well as to be able to give a premiership defender the flick without a care, and they didn't. Don't accept the second chance characterisation and wish him all the best with us.

[B.M]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

[shanegrambeau]

I wanna see Hilly not looking like a beach ball, but I am ignorant and judgmental and stupid. It just looks better and sits well. Or maybe I am a genius. Hilly's running didn't seem to suffer, but if you are rounder, you will be more fumbly bending down - so I will rationalize there. don't get injured please. I would rather a portly skilled player than a guy in the shed.

[Impatient Sainter]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

Perhaps you are right, but I think you are under rating the improvement our midfield will display. Our weakness is our key forward stocks apart from King, we basically have no other proven key forward. I class Membrey as a medium sized forward.

The Dogs have lost their best player this season (Dunkley) and Hunter who was an important outside cog in their list. They do have some good key position players coming through, but their strength in the past has been their midfield. Smith will move into the middle but they will have to replace his outside run. Lobb will be a good 2nd tall/ruckman & Jones will add to their defence, but whether he can return to past form after a year out is yet to be seen.

They have definitely filled their holes in the key tall roles but Dunkley average 25 disposals 4 clearances & Hunter 20 disposals will deplete their mids.

[Saints58]

Mike, who was wearing the No.47 training top ?

Was that Hotton (39) who injured his side or back and went off for treatment and was then seen back on the field talking to Ross ?

I noticed Connolly was consistently at the back of his running group during most of his runs. doesn't appear to be one of his strengths either.

How is Walsh coping with being the No. 2 fitness guy now that Misson is back at the Saints, they were both organising the runner groups at one point.

Was 47 Eyre?
39 is Hotton. I like the look of him. Not saying he’ll get a game round one but he’s got something.
Agree re Connolly. I was surprised as I thought he was a good runner.

Yes

[saintsRrising]

Geez scary line up
If they don’t play finals/top 4 something is wrong
Throw in their midfield…

So what does that mean re Freo who gave Dogs a 5 goal quarter time start in the elimination final and finished 2 in front.

Keith is average. Ugle-Hagen had one good game. Dogs fell into the 8 by luck more than management.

Fair suck, Dogs are not going so well as to be able to give a premiership defender the flick without a care, and they didn't. Don't accept the second chance characterisation and wish him all the best with us.

Main thing holding the Dogs back is their overuse of the ball often going in circles rather than go forward. If Bevo changes their gameplan toa more effective one, they could be a major threat.

Next issue was their tall defenders. Jones will help there. That they did not try hard to keep Cordy says a lot.

Still he is with the Saints now, and so let us hope that he improves. He is only 25 and so he still can. His lack of good aerobic fitness is a worry.

[D.B.Cooper]

Bulldogs didn't cut Mr Cordy did they, didn't he shop himself as a free agent because he was dissatisfied with them?
Suggesting he is on the rebound or second chancing seems a bit of a misrepresentation, yes?

Bottom line is that the Dogs are now loaded with tall key position players. Cordy would have only been depth at the Dogs in 2023 if he had of stayed and he knew it. Whether he jumped, or was pushed, he was going to be on the outer at the Dogs in 2023. So it would seem to me that yes St Kilda is a second chance for him to resurrect his career. Though his lacklustre training form means that he better pull his finger out if he wants to grab it.

Jones 199 will be their FB.

Keath 197 will be the intercepting back

Gardner 197 played 22 games in 2022

Darcy 204 being groomed to play down back.



Up forward Naughton 195, Lobb 207, Ugle 197 and Bruce 198 do not all fit in.

So Cordy at 195 in 2023 at the Dogs was going to be well and truly on the outer if he had of remained at the Dogs..

Agree sRs

Cordy played 14 AFL games and 8 VFL games in 2022.

Add Jones & Lobb to the list, Bruce back from reco and development of Ugle & Darcy and Cordy definitely looks like surplus to their requirements.

[saintsRrising]

A question. You mentioned a couple of the newbies. Wondering how the rest of them are doing? Mattaes P for example?

Whatever the Poo is in 2023, he will be far better in 2024 on.

Reason being, and looking at him up close at training when he was only metres away he still is very boyish in his body. Hardly surprising as he was only 7 days off being in next years draft.

By the time 2024 season starts he will be much strong, and his should etc will have filled out more.

Now he has talent in spades, but in 2023 he will be playing against men. When he has a manlike body he will be even better.

Keeler even more so.

Hotton looks to my eye the most ready to play from a physical viewpoint.

Van Es is already quite the unit physically.

McLennan could be a bit of a smokey and especially if we have injuries with our small defenders.

[Ghost Like]

Do we know when they resume training?

[Teflon]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

Agree
Anyone who can’t see the Dogs line for A grade talent has us covered is blind one eyed and unbalanced…
I think they’ve massively under achieved with that list
Darcy will be a gun
Ugle Hagan only just hitting his straps
Naughton a gun
Even the dwarf guy who didn’t play last year would wal into our side
Would Seb Ross walk into theirs??
Nup

[The Fireman]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

Agree
Anyone who can’t see the Dogs line for A grade talent has us covered is blind one eyed and unbalanced…
I think they’ve massively under achieved with that list
Darcy will be a gun
Ugle Hagan only just hitting his straps
Naughton a gun
Even the dwarf guy who didn’t play last year would wal into our side
Would Seb Ross walk into theirs??
Nup

The skunks are more of a threat

[Teflon]

From George BF Training Report

Interesting read - noticed big standards differences

Okay so have some time to post

Firstly we can probably put to bed the idea that the minority of loons won't renew because of Ross. I've been to a few first open training sessions of pre-seasons and this one probably trumped them all in terms of attendance and atmosphere. I can't remember a bigger turnout than probably the 2010 or 2011 first open session. I reckon we could've easily cracked a few thousand. Saw plenty purchasing memberships and stocking up on merchandise - all in all a solid day for profit I would've thought.

When I got there I walked through the crowd nearest the facility and surprised to see Finnis' assistant there. All the stuff I arranged for people on here over the years was through her so we got talking - general chit-chat and she asked how Neill was doing, told her the unfortunate news and she sends her well wishes to Rabbit58 (Neill) and his family. Said to me that the club knew of BigFooty but never really understood the die-hard nature of the supporters here and hoped everyone was doing well.

I moved over on the far wing and had a decent view. Weather held up alright and the club put on a lunch (well, sausage sizzle lol) for everyone. Walked past Scoops as well - he's a sight to behold.

They ran through a few light drills and there was a clear focus on ball movement and stoppage. Few were doing laps and others not involved at all (not seen either). Immediately a few stood out to me, notably our boy Windhager who has to be probably the most driven, hard working 1st (now 2nd) year player I've ever seen. His workrate is remarkable, the repeat efforts and general pressure around the contest was unbelievable to watch. He showed up a few of the established players too. Cannot wait to see what he does next year - to me is easily best 22 and will probably be one of the main cogs in our midfield.

A lot of them have put on decent size over the break - to me Clark and Owens are the main standouts but even guys like Hill and Ross seem to be moving better, Hill looks to have dropped a few kegs - no puppy fat hanging over his waist line like in previous years. I assume Ross has told him to get in better shape as per the positional move from half back to the wing. Plus I think Hill has a bit of new found energy moving back to his position - seems a lot happier.

His mate NWM was another stand-out. I remember watching Hill in the Hawks pre-season game at Moorabbin a few years ago and everyone 'ooing' and 'ahhing' at every disposal. Was similar here - every time Nas got the ball you knew it wasn't going to be wasted. Probably needs to add a little bit of size and be 'football conditioned' but looks very very good - hard to find anyone with a better kick on them than him.

RTB has put me at ease a bit with how he's managing the group so far. I barely noticed him at all as Enright, Hayes, Goddard, etc helped to run the sessions. RTB strutting around the back and looking on. Can tell the players are afraid of him LOL, the standards have definitely lifted and much more intensity within drills now. Despite the news that it will be a really tough pre-season, they all seem to be enjoying the work.

Another positional change is probably Sinclair into the midfield. Saw him a lot in there. Will say I've seen him in midfield drills in the Ratten era so can't say for cetain he'll end up there but Ross seems to want to maximise everything so Hill to the wing and Sinclair into midfield seems like a logical evolution of both players careers. Sincs was good too, as expected. Very quick in and around the ball, think if he does move into midfield we will be better for it.

Didn't see Keeler or Coffield anywhere and Stocker looked very average to me. Rest of them (bar the obvious injured boys) were all out there though.

Wog boy looks huge for his age - lots of puppy fat but give him a few more summers and he will fill out nicely. There were comparisons to Bontempelli during the draft and I can see why - lots of similar characteristics and didn't look out of place.

Have a feeling that Ross is taking a more common sense approach to the lineup and strategy. Not playing it safe, but making obvious changes that will benefit us IMO. Sinclair in midfield and Hill to the wing seem obvious to me, but the focus on moving the ball at speed and breaking from stoppage was evident. Looks like we're going to be using our physical advantages to build the gameplan from, namely our running capacity and speed. Think we will be exciting to watch if Ross sticks to his word and frees up his style a bit.

Got to say too that they've only been there for a couple months but the cohesion between the assistants was evident. Enright is such a fantastic get, some of our defensive stuff was really high level - he clearly knows the game.

It's early days and I'm naturally pessimistic (especially so after Bassat brought in all his mates) but very early signs are at least positive. There's good camaraderie, the group isn't afraid of hard work, we are taking a more common sense approach (as opposed to Battle on a wing, Hill in defense and Membrey full back) and it's evident that whilst standards will take time to improve, there is clearly a difference as opposed to previous years. It seemed to me like more of a relaxed environment under Ratten - good solid work but a susceptibility to joke around. I didn't really notice that today. When it was time put in the work, they did. Playful afterwards but during the sessions it looked very different.

Got to say too that the facilities are absolutely remarkable, the Frawley stand is beautiful and hope to sit in the stands in future (less busier) sessions. Great turnout despite all the change and s**t we've had piled on us in the media - loyal and passionate bunch of supporters we are, not surprising though.

I'll be in QLD and WA after Christmas so won't be able to get to another session until mid-Jan so can't say much else until then but hopefully a few others are able to get down. Would say to the skeptics - get down there and have a look. Definitely eased a lot of my worries.

If anyone wants a bit on someone specifically let me know and I'll try my best to give you what I saw.

[Saintmike65]

Do we know when they resume training?

They resume training January 9.

[bobmurray]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

Perhaps you are right, but I think you are under rating the improvement our midfield will display. Our weakness is our key forward stocks apart from King, we basically have no other proven key forward. I class Membrey as a medium sized forward.

The Dogs have lost their best player this season (Dunkley) and Hunter who was an important outside cog in their list. They do have some good key position players coming through, but their strength in the past has been their midfield. Smith will move into the middle but they will have to replace his outside run. Lobb will be a good 2nd tall/ruckman & Jones will add to their defence, but whether he can return to past form after a year out is yet to be seen.

They have definitely filled their holes in the key tall roles but Dunkley average 25 disposals 4 clearances & Hunter 20 disposals will deplete their mids.

The Key forward shortage seemed to be the one thing that wasn't a priority in the free agency, trade and draft periods in the off season, quite surprising for me as the club progressed through those stages, now that King is injured it could be a costly oversight. I doubt Eyre is the answer. Ross thinks we only have to cover 2 goals a game until King returns, based on King's early 2022 season returns.

[Saintmike65]

A question. You mentioned a couple of the newbies. Wondering how the rest of them are doing? Mattaes P for example?

I’ll say upfront that I’m an unabashed Phillipou fan.
He’s still only a baby but he’s so impressive with his ground coverage, footskills and quick hands.
He’s also a great mark, so I’m hoping he debuts in round 1 as a forward.
The boss will need to be creative with his forward set up, so he may go with a few hybrid mobile types such as Mattaes, Sharman, Owens, Membrey & Wood..on a rotation.

[B.M]

I have no idea why we didn’t chase Schache or Weideman

It was obvious to me

[Mr Magic]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

Perhaps you are right, but I think you are under rating the improvement our midfield will display. Our weakness is our key forward stocks apart from King, we basically have no other proven key forward. I class Membrey as a medium sized forward.

The Dogs have lost their best player this season (Dunkley) and Hunter who was an important outside cog in their list. They do have some good key position players coming through, but their strength in the past has been their midfield. Smith will move into the middle but they will have to replace his outside run. Lobb will be a good 2nd tall/ruckman & Jones will add to their defence, but whether he can return to past form after a year out is yet to be seen.

They have definitely filled their holes in the key tall roles but Dunkley average 25 disposals 4 clearances & Hunter 20 disposals will deplete their mids.

The Key forward shortage seemed to be the one thing that wasn't a priority in the free agency, trade and draft periods in the off season, quite surprising for me as the club progressed through those stages, now that King is injured it could be a costly oversight. I doubt Eyre is the answer. Ross thinks we only have to cover 2 goals a game until King returns, based on King's early 2022 season returns.

Maybe they think they’ve got one coming in 12 months time?

[B.M]

That a strange way of looking at it

He did average 2.5 goals

But he didn’t kick that every week

He had 4 or so bags of 5/6 which were match winning games

Those are what you have to replace - a key forward who at times can take a game by the scruff of the neck.

Cooper may come in and contribute a goal here and a goal there… but playing on key defenders- can he take a game apart?