We are not the real deal

[1971]

Precisely my point. He needs time to learn. Others should know better.

[realdeal]

Not at this junction anyway.

To be fair, i created my user name in 2004!

[Teflon]

Of course we aren’t the real deal yet - we are a work in progress that’s why Lyon got 4 years
That aside, wouldn’t want too many 10 goal belting’s
Our “experienced” players are not of the calibre of other teams
Hill - massive front runner again today
Ross - 33% by foot??? Bombs away into 50 ..turnover
Howard - can’t defend 1 out
Crouch - would have least meters gained of all AFL mids
Steele - has to be said….has been average for a year ..not A grade and injured now
Upside? Some kids showing promise
Owens
Pou
Windy (can’t get in the side???)
No one is safe reputations mean squat
Play the kids
Find out if Bytel can play
Owens/Windy to midfield (even rest Ross/Crouch/Steele as needed ….short term pain long term gain)
I ready crazy stat on BF
Crows -2017 GF since then 13 top 30 picks ….their rebuild is on tra k
Saints same time??? 6
Get to the draft get some quality kids in ffs we’ve had this crab midfield way too long
Fix it

[Impatient Sainter]

Not at this junction anyway.

Agreed, but until RTB realises our mids arent getting it done it wont change. We simply need to move Sinclair, Owens, Windhager, Bytel even Stocker into the middle full time. I know Sincs is brilliant across hbf, but he is also our best midfielder when he goes in there.

Hopefully when Webster & Coffield return we can switch up our mids. We need to use Caminiti as the 2nd ruck until Hayes returns, and play Owens as a genuine mid.

In the past weeks its our senior players who have really let us down. Steele & Ross are horribly out of form and Crouch is good at winning the ball nothing more. Hill is playing as a floating mid, but he is simply not hitting the score board enough.

RTB said he wanted to use the season to explore things, lets see what changes he will make to get the midfield chugging again.

[Teflon]

Not at this junction anyway.

Agreed, but until RTB realises our mids arent getting it done it wont change. We simply need to move Sinclair, Owens, Windhager, Bytel even Stocker into the middle full time. I know Sincs is brilliant across hbf, but he is also our best midfielder when he goes in there.

Hopefully when Webster & Coffield return we can switch up our mids. We need to use Caminiti as the 2nd ruck until Hayes returns, and play Owens as a genuine mid.

In the past weeks its our senior players who have really let us down. Steele & Ross are horribly out of form and Crouch is good at winning the ball nothing more. Hill is playing as a floating mid, but he is simply not hitting the score board enough.

RTB said he wanted to use the season to explore things, lets see what changes he will make to get the midfield chugging again.

Great post agree
Ross needs to forget W/L
Explore ffs
Find out now
That sane midfield we had under Ratten/Richo years taking us nowhere
Needs an overhaul of class badly
Crabs

[Saintmike65]

We’re a work in progress..the coaching team have done a remarkable job given injuries and holes in the list.
Hopefully King, Webster and Windhager come in.
We need to add some youth into the midfield starting this week!!

[terry smith rules]

Crouch - would have least meters gained of all AFL mids

He is not in the side for metres gained (which actually is at 301 per game, rated average on the AFL site)

He is in the side for his clearance work which is elite on year to date averages


His year stacks up really well against Lachie Neale (go to AFL site for statistical comparisons)

He (I think) is our most consistent and important midfielder

[Annoyedsaint]

Crouch - would have least meters gained of all AFL mids

He is not in the side for metres gained (which actually is at 301 per game, rated average on the AFL site)

He is in the side for his clearance work which is elite on year to date averages


His year stacks up really well against Lachie Neale (go to AFL site for statistical comparisons)

He (I think) is our most consistent and important midfielder

Finally a bit of common sense.
Couple of down games (along with Ross to a lesser extent).

Perhaps the opposition have worked on reducing their output & strengths combined with a slight drop off in form.
Doesn’t take much. Unfortunately there isn’t anyone else to take up the slack as Steele is clearly not fit & strong from week to week.

The only incoming bull is Windhager is he develops like we want. He’s the only one that I’d like playing even if he struggles at times.

Bytel the jury is well and truely out on.
Is he quick enough, is he hard nosed week after week? I can’t honestly see it at this stage. As I’ve said in previous posts, injuries don’t help him at times but he’s 23.
Before you know it he’s 27 and another Billings. A waste of 10 years.

[Life Long Saint]

Compare us to F1 teams...
Our fight this season is not with Brisbane, Collingwood, Geelong, Melbourne, and Port Adelaide.
We are not Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, or Aston Martin (this season).

We're in the midfield pack of teams. Alpine, McLaren, and Alpha Tauri.
Western Bulldogs, Carlton, Sydney, Richmond, and now Adelaide is who our fight is with.

We've beaten two of those teams and lost to the Crows interstate (like we always seem to do).

We have two very winnable games coming up. It is important that we win them before the bye.
We then face Sydney and Richmond both of which are winnable. Brisbane will be a tough chgallenge, even in Melbourne.
Coming home, we have West Coast, and return games against Gold Coast, North, and Hawthorn. All of which we should win.

We are still well placed to make the finals. A feat very few of would have thought possible at the start of the season!

[Sainternist]

Not at this junction anyway.

[saynta]

Sorry guys. Yesterday's game was a big enough downer for me so I won't be reading any negative threads including this one.

[DJ Higgins]

If you asked me at the start of the season if we would be on the top 8 at this stage with all our injuries I’d have said no chance but here we sit. We have been beaten by better sides and that happens, we are not a top four side yet but we should play finals which will be huge for the young guns even if we get flogged. Keep the faith and first week of September free

[Teflon]

Crouch - would have least meters gained of all AFL mids

He is not in the side for metres gained (which actually is at 301 per game, rated average on the AFL site)

He is in the side for his clearance work which is elite on year to date averages


His year stacks up really well against Lachie Neale (go to AFL site for statistical comparisons)

He (I think) is our most consistent and important midfielder

Finally a bit of common sense.
Couple of down games (along with Ross to a lesser extent).

Perhaps the opposition have worked on reducing their output & strengths combined with a slight drop off in form.
Doesn’t take much. Unfortunately there isn’t anyone else to take up the slack as Steele is clearly not fit & strong from week to week.

The only incoming bull is Windhager is he develops like we want. He’s the only one that I’d like playing even if he struggles at times.

Bytel the jury is well and truely out on.
Is he quick enough, is he hard nosed week after week? I can’t honestly see it at this stage. As I’ve said in previous posts, injuries don’t help him at times but he’s 23.
Before you know it he’s 27 and another Billings. A waste of 10 years.

The point is Crouch Ross Steele in there at sane time has been B shown up against top mids as 1 paced and unable to help in the outside at all
Crouch is a good player but from what you have below you leave out Owens? Or Sinclair??
We simply MUST change the midfield mix now
Bring Owens, Sinclair, Windhager and try Bytel FIND OUT
Ross can go sub/Sandy for all I care he isn’t the future and is more the same

[SydneySainter]

Not at this junction anyway.

Now that is hilarious

[B.M]

The misnomer that Ross is slow is proven factually incorrect by data

He’s had two average games though - he ran with Rory Laird Sunday - not sure how Rory went?

Needs to perform better as a leader

Crouch - has lost a bit of polish - everything from him over the last three games has been a bit untidy

[Brunswicksainter]

Let’s be honest this season is well over in terms of winning the flag. It’s a 2 horse race at this point and the rest of the comp are simply making up the numbers. Not since the 09/10 days have the top 2 or 3 sides been so far ahead of the rest. This year is about development for us.

Ironically it is probably one the best seasons in history to be a bottom 4 side given the immense strength of the draft class and the gap between good and the best. Shame we didn’t keep rats haha.

[Devilhead]

Let’s be honest this season is well over in terms of winning the flag. It’s a 2 horse race at this point and the rest of the comp are simply making up the numbers. Not since the 09/10 days have the top 2 or 3 sides been so far ahead of the rest. This year is about development for us.

Ironically it is probably one the best seasons in history to be a bottom 4 side given the immense strength of the draft class and the gap between good and the best. Shame we didn’t keep rats haha.

I am guessing that one of the horses in your 2 horse race is a team that beat us by a measly 6pts when we had quite a few of our best 22 out?

[Scollop]

The misnomer that Ross is slow is proven factually incorrect by data

He’s had two average games though - he ran with Rory Laird Sunday - not sure how Rory went?

Crouch - has lost a bit of polish - everything from him over the last three games has been a bit untidy

Laird came off in the last and spent a fair bit of time on the bench. He’s been carrying a calf niggle the last 3 weeks

https://www.afl.com.au/news/913293/gun- ... lockbuster

Adelaide were definitely on song Sunday. They played and lost to the Cats in round 8 (down at GMHBA) and lost to Collingwood round 7 so they've been up against good teams.

They didn't capitulate against either and they'd been building in confidence prior to that with some good wins.

So we knew they were going to be hungry and some of our mids just didn't match their intensity. I don't mind if we put in some genuine effort and lose, but our players were not doing the basics and not helping each other. Seb was trying to play like a millionaire and handballing over his head to no one. Crouch was fumbling and missing his targets. I found it disappointing in that first half how many times we looked pedestrian

A couple of times in the first and second quarters after Adelaide got ahead and our mids were clearly getting beaten, guys like Sebby and Jack Sinclair were kicking the footy off the ground instead of putting their head over it to try and get it to a team mate. Those kicks off the ground went to the opposition or to other 50/50 contests (and we were losing most of those all over the ground).

Seb and Brad Crouch were beaten in contests around the ground plus at stoppages. When we did get some ascendency at centre bounces they both turned it over.

But what really frustrates me is people on this forum blaming Byrnes and Paton for the loss...Or blaming Howard in defense or blaming Pou and Membrey in the forward line when Crouch was directly responsible for 3-4 goals to Adelaide from his errors AND that was just in the first half

Watch the last 25 seconds of the seconds quarter for an example of a stat chasing ineffective dribble kick by Crouch that goes directly to an Adelaide player and results in a demoralising goal to them on the half time siren. Jack Steele was boundary side and free just 2 metres away

Seb probably responsible for 2 goals to Adelaide in the first half - that's more than half of Adelaide's goals because these guys were trusted to 'turn' their form around...while Windy and Bytel are raring and hungry and not given opportunities

[Yorkeys]

OK how about: starting mids; Marshall, Steele, Gresham, Clark. Seb sub (has nice illteration). Bench mid Bytel and Sinclair to rotate except on Mother's day. Owens to give Marshall a break. Might that work. Crouch might make a feisty back pocket. Then again his kicking under pressure....

[Scollop]

OK how about: starting mids; Marshall, Steele, Gresham, Clark. Seb sub (has nice illteration). Bench mid Bytel and Sinclair to rotate except on Mother's day. Owens to give Marshall a break. Might that work. Crouch might make a feisty back pocket. Then again his kicking under pressure....

Crouch just needs help and so does Seb. More opportunities and more game time for Windy and others required.

...I wouldn't play Brad Crouch any where but midfield.

Some teams have guys like De Goey or Dustin Martin starting in the middle and then spending most of their time on ground in the forward line. Pou and Owens could do that too

[Otiman]

Fix the clearances (Sincs, Owens, Windy into stoppages, get Marshall working on his tap ruck game)
Fix the F50 entries
Fix the conversion efficiency (King)

Nothing wrong with Ross or Crouch but the kids must be given opportunities to go past them.

[shanegrambeau]

I just watched the Saints Footy review. My ears pricked up at the mistaken selection of Cooper Sharman and the infamous Caminiti bounce. Oh spare me. These two fellas are kids in football terms. Where were the leaders today? No names required but most were poor to say the least. We will probably drop Sharman and let some well-paid experienced players remain. Therein lies a problem.

Yes

The selection table is a quandary.

Wholesale changes are welcomed by us howling fans.

Scapegoats are welcomed

And then they might not make enough changes in order to maintain balance or be reactive

I don’t think Billings blew it out of the park for Sandy

But is he a a rusting BMW being used as a paddock bomb down there? And if so, then what?

I think the only choice we have is to pick another ruckman or ask Josh Battle to be Jadon Blake follower.or dread to say it…recall the Cord. Pull the cords cord!! Gee !! Oucchhh!

[B.M]

Hmm

I don’t think the second ruck is the issue

It’s connection from mid to forward

A bit of that is personnel and a bit is system. We are ok off turnover but ordinary from stoppage.

Phillipou 190 90kg
Owens 190 90kg
Membrey 188 89kg
Sharman 193 86kg
Caminiti 196 85kg

Are not going to get it done!

We have no power forward

[B.M]

We are ranked last for converting i50s to scores!

[Life Long Saint]

Nothing wrong with Ross ...

There is one little thing. He plays like Derek Zoolander!
His first instinct is to run to his right. This is not clever football for a left footer and he's not good enough on his right to make it effective.
Most other on-baller left-footers always get their left foot (think NDS).
If Billings or Clark get caught on the wrong side, then they can generally hit the target...Not Seb.