Who are we prepared to trade?

[luckysaint]

if by one dimensional you mean he's 5 weeks back from a year long injury, , can play power defence, can kick long, has pace in straight lines, can monster the biggest defenders, and has an enormous ticker, courage and is a very good mark of the ball, as well as a disciplined punch, can smash packs and fill in the ruck in the HB line then your right.

and what would you trade him for? A CHB?

DER.

Actually Dan i'd trade him for a fullback, a full forward or a draft pick combo.

Btw i did not infer he had pace in straight lines or a disciplined punch. He can monster the biggest defenders, but it doesn't matter much if he can't kick goals from 20m out. I also doubt that 2 HOs per year is that great either.

He is not the only one who can play CHB on the list, but he is the only player who can't seem to play any other position.

[CeilidhSaint]

Fair dinkum.....
People are so quick to forget > and those who talk about Maguire and Fisher getting traded.....
Drafting will win you premierships, not trading. Clubs aren't fools and they won't be giving up any players that are rare eg KPPs.
Traded players often also ask for more money than they are getting from their current club - something we can ill afford.

[Spinner]

To get something good you need to be able to trade something good.

Don't scream blue murder. These are just some possibilities I'm throwing around. Obviously i don't mean trade them all at once either

These are players i can see who would have good value on the market:

Steven Baker: Is good run-with tagger but is soon to be 28. He is also marked by his tribunal record. Would still pull in something decent.

Jason Blake: Might attract some interest, like he did a couple of years ago with the tigers. Will be 27.

Leigh Fisher: Is an effective defender, but is slow, might not suit the game plan going forward.

Sam Fisher: Good defender, but perhaps more suited as a flanker, something we can spare. Would attract a reasonable price.

Matt Maguire: Slowish small CHB, has alot of credits in the bank though, and would be worth a bit.

Stephen Milne: Will be 28 next season, maybe his best is past him?

Wow, that's gutsy.
You would seriously consider trading Sam Fisher, Goose, Bakes??
C'mon. They are all important best 22 players and there is no way we should trade them.
Plus, Leigh has added another demension (tagger) to his game. We don't have another small forward like Milny and Blake is not a bad GOP.

We are better off looking at trading Gwilt, Watts, Brooks etc. Players that have done nothing so far. That is ofcourse Ross Lyon isn't ging to play them next year.

Blake a good ordinary player? OK.....


L Fisher was added 'tagger' as another dimension to his game.....What were his existing dimensions? Errors and Turnovers?

[St. Luke]

i think we have to focus more on drafting good young talent than trading for players

I hope so, some of the trades we've done lately haven't worked too well (re: Clarke and Gardiner) I suppose Clarkies age is a bit of a factor (not everyone should be likened to Harvs) and we haven't seen what Gardiner is capable of yet.....I really want to see what this bloke can do also!

[ausfatcat]

didn't we get clarke with a very late draft pick? I am pretty sure we didn't trade for him.

[luckysaint]

Fair dinkum.....
People are so quick to forget > and those who talk about Maguire and Fisher getting traded.....
Drafting will win you premierships, not trading. Clubs aren't fools and they won't be giving up any players that are rare eg KPPs.
Traded players often also ask for more money than they are getting from their current club - something we can ill afford.

"Fair Dinkum" - has to be one of the most overused and tired sayings going around on this forum... Try something a bit more original and a little less ocka.

I am just playing devil's advocate!!! If we are going to trade this is what we'd need to give up for something good!!!!

Also, trading isn't only for swapping player A for player B, apparently you can swap draft picks if a player is involved as well...

[Statsman]

Sam and Goose do not have the pace to play FB....

Gilbert would have the pace to play FB, but at this stage he lacks the body strength to match up with the gorilla forwards. The way we've seen Gilbert develop this year, I wonder if he's destined for a key defensive position as first thought or whether he's better used as a tall, running wingman.

[bobmurray]

Whilst people on this thread are debating Goose's merits,didn't GT drop a bit of a bucket on Goose early in the year about what the opposition thought of him and what one of his biggest weakness's was......

I cant remember the exact words GT used but in some way they were damning........

[Spinner]

Fair dinkum.....
People are so quick to forget > and those who talk about Maguire and Fisher getting traded.....
Drafting will win you premierships, not trading. Clubs aren't fools and they won't be giving up any players that are rare eg KPPs.
Traded players often also ask for more money than they are getting from their current club - something we can ill afford.

"Fair Dinkum" - has to be one of the most overused and tired sayings going around on this forum... Try something a bit more original and a little less ocka.

I am just playing devil's advocate!!! If we are going to trade this is what we'd need to give up for something good!!!!

Also, trading isn't only for swapping player A for player B, apparently you can swap draft picks if a player is involved as well...

Fair Dinkum.

[fonz_#15]

Blake a good ordinary player? OK.....


L Fisher was added 'tagger' as another dimension to his game.....What were his existing dimensions? Errors and Turnovers?

instead of just disagreeing, how about you give reasons. I think L.FIsher pre injury his season was fantastic.

also if you don't see blake as GOP, what are your views on him. Justify your posts instead of shooting snother posters opinion down without substance.

[vacuous space]

The reason most trades don't work out is that most trades are fringe players for draft picks. Few teams ever trade stars or potential stars unless they demand a trade. Player for player trades don't happen very often. If we're going to pick anyone up, chances are it'll be someone like Birss or someone who wants to move back to Melbourne from interstate.

In other words, don't get your hopes up. I expect us to be reasonably inactive during trade week.

[mad saint guy]

We don't have enough players of any particular type to trade.
Do we have an excess of tall players who can play at this level - No
Do we have exess midfielders who can play at this level? - No
Do we have excess ruckmen who can play at this level? No
Do we have excess marking, medium sized forward at this level? NO

Do we have an excess of medium defenders who can play at this level? Yes

Sam Fisher - Gun, untouchable
Brendon Goddard - Gun, untouchable
Raph Clarke - Very talented player, don't trade unless for a high price
Leigh Fisher - Good player, but expendable
James Gwilt - Good backup, but expendable
Matthew Ferguson - Solid player, not needed

Then Blake, Gram and Attard can also play as a medium defender.

We won't get much for any of those players, but they are all AFL-quality and we only need 3 of L.Fisher, R.Clarke, Gwilt and Ferguson on the list. If we could get a late second round pick for Gwilt or Ferguson we should jump at it.

[saintsRrising]

. If we could get a late second round pick for Gwilt or Ferguson we should jump at it.

I am glad you said IF...as sucha scenario is fantasy stuff..
We actually delsited Ferguson last year and NO OTHER club grabbed him before we took him again witha LATE pick.

Whay after only 2 games this year...and ordinary ones at that...would any club offer any type of draft pick for Ferg...let alone a valuable second round pick??

I do not think any club would trade for Gwilt either....

[mad saint guy]

I do not think any club would trade for Gwilt either....

Gwilty would get a few bites. At the very least we would get a draft pick upgrade. He's a 188cm tank with a beautiful kick and is good in the air. He was extremely stiff to be dropped earlier in the year. He is just unlucky to be on the same list as S.Fisher, Hudghton, Goddard, L.Fisher, Blake and R.Clarke.

[vacuous space]

Gwilty would get a few bites. At the very least we would get a draft pick upgrade. He's a 188cm tank with a beautiful kick and is good in the air. He was extremely stiff to be dropped earlier in the year. He is just unlucky to be on the same list as S.Fisher, Hudghton, Goddard, L.Fisher, Blake and R.Clarke.

I agree. Gwilt would easily be an improvement on some of the players that are getting games at Carlton, Richmond and Melbourne. Carlton were supposedly interested in him the year we drafted him. Carlton's fourth pick would be around the 36 mark. If we trade picks 9 or 27 for help elsewhere it might be a worthwhile trade.

[ausfatcat]

surely we would get fev and the number 3 pick for gwilt surely!!!!!!!!

[ausfatcat]

sorry for above post night shift

[bigcarl]

Matt Maguire: would be worth a bit.

"would be worth a bit" because he is a bloody good player.

people forget just how good.

even though we didn't see the best of him this season it is worth noting that with goose back in the team in the second part of the season we lost only three matches.

a decision to trade him would come back to haunt us, i'm certain of it. we must keep the core of this list together.

[Dan Warna]

if by one dimensional you mean he's 5 weeks back from a year long injury, , can play power defence, can kick long, has pace in straight lines, can monster the biggest defenders, and has an enormous ticker, courage and is a very good mark of the ball, as well as a disciplined punch, can smash packs and fill in the ruck in the HB line then your right.

and what would you trade him for? A CHB?

DER.

Actually Dan i'd trade him for a fullback, a full forward or a draft pick combo.

Btw i did not infer he had pace in straight lines or a disciplined punch. He can monster the biggest defenders, but it doesn't matter much if he can't kick goals from 20m out. I also doubt that 2 HOs per year is that great either.

He is not the only one who can play CHB on the list, but he is the only player who can't seem to play any other position.

well if he's good then we trade a good CHB for a good FB...where is the win there? if he's ordinary and limited we trade an ordinary and limited CHB for an ordinary FB...

folks generally dont trade quality for crap unless they have you over a barrel (PSD or top 3 round 1 draft pick)

or we get a draft pick for Maguire and spend 3 years to 4 years developing a new FB/CHB or whatever we get.

meanwhile if we did trade Maguire for a top 10 draft pick, idiots will be calling for the player to be traded from the minute he arrives (as they did for s. fisher, montagna, reiwoldt, (i remember the posts, who is the reiwoldt, is he as good as kosi etc) goddard (OMG goddard has been here 2 years and he is 20 and he is STILL no good ) ) and we all know some round 1 draft picks dont work out, molan, wiped out with injury, penny wiped out with injury...

meanwhile we have lost a very good CHB for a potential FB that may take 3 to 4 years to develop or a similarly skilled kid of maguires age...unless you are going to trade for someone much older? bolton?

[Dan Warna]

Whilst people on this thread are debating Goose's merits,didn't GT drop a bit of a bucket on Goose early in the year about what the opposition thought of him and what one of his biggest weakness's was......

I cant remember the exact words GT used but in some way they were damning........

GT said Maguire could run in straight lines, and turned very slowly.

if you think about, most really big units turn slowly too.

I've seen Harvey turn glass inside out too with his sidestep...

what we want is a 6foot 6 guy with speed of matera, turning circle of baker, strength of FG, endurance of harvey, kicking ability of anthony rocca, accuracy of tony lockett and marking ability of stewart loewe and if any player fails to meet up with these expectations they are limited...

[spert]

Well you don't win flags with injury-prone players and we have a few too many of those. RL will know that we need to recruit or trade to get more goal-kicking power and more grunt around the packs and centre clearances. Good rucks don't grow on trees, so who knows what will happen there as we do need an EFFECTIVE ruckman

[joffaboy]

Cant add to who to trade or not, but coming from the comments Rl has made throughout the season and on the weekend it would seem pretty clear that we are going for some zip in the middle and at least one crummer to help Milne.

Lyon intimated that in his words "We have a plan". I know that sounds trite, I mean he wouldn't say " We dont have a clue" would he?

Problem is that like the OP says you need to trade quality for quality.

Trading is something that rarely happens to top liners nowdays so RL will have to be ruthless to get what he wants.

In ruthless I mean trading a loved Sainter like a Maguire (not that he will but dont be suprised if we trade a mid ranger).

There will be a hue and cry from the supporters, but Lyon has to put his mark on this team.

We have had a failed year. We have steadily gone backwards since the 2004 PF.

If Lyon doesn't halt this backward movement next season and get us into at least top 8 and realistically top four, the removal of the previous coach will be seen to be a failure.

[Dan Warna]

well JB, through out the early part of the season we had pretty much our midfield and forward line intact and folks were asking why we didn't have more defenders up our sleeve.

Maguire was pretty good for us up until a quite severe injury that was caused in game, as opposed to say a hammy or quad that can be put down to soft tissue management.

nothing to sugest maguire is a 'fragile' player prone to injury.

trading him would leave us even more short staffed in the back line (perhaps max can be described as fragile after a couple of seasons of injuries?)

I think trading maguire would suggest that we would have to flood even more to cover for the shortage of marking power and defencive ability in teh back line.

[RooandKosi]

they are all starting 22 HARDEST TOUGHEST PLAYERS WE HAVE and you want to trade them???

no way you cant buy that kind of toughness.

Blake is so underated!! He goes hard everytime!! Is the FITTEST guy at the club do you guys realise this??? You wanna send the fittest guy packing who is capable of running with ross's plan thats why ross will never rid of blake he is fit enough for his game plan unlike half the team!!!

[Dan Warna]

the thing with blake is if you trade him you will get a late round 2 to round 4 pick. or a player of equivalent ability.

you are not going to trade blake and get anything super in return.