Lyon's not really concerned about loss...

[bigcarl]

if our attack isn't the issue, how is it that our slump coincides almost exactly with the loss of our best forward, main target and leading goal kicker of 2009?

I had a carlton idiot sitting beside me yesterday, who began yelling about 15 minutes into the opening quarter "smash 'em blues. they've got nothing up forward."

he was right. i knew he was right when he said it and he was proved right.

what's more the carlton players knew it.

they knew from the moment they saw us line up that it wouldn't take a cricket score to win. all they had to do was take a few risks and try to rattle on a few goals.

the forward line is an issue. our mids need some quality to kick to, otherwise their best efforts sail straight back past them instead of sailing through the big sticks.

as i said in another thread, i think bj has to play mainly forward during riewoldt's absence and we need someone presenting at chf. i think gilbert or maybe blake. kosi is just not working at ff and should play second ruck.

i think we'll play a lot more direct and confident with something to kick to.

btw, i thought kosi tried his heart out last night but the only time he looked really comfortable was when he was rucking.

[Spinner]

Wow It wasnt the attack to blame?

The midfield?



Looks like those who actually watched the match have the same opinion as the coach....

Had opposition telling - Whats wrong with the forward line..... Watch the match, then speak to me at least. Over it.

[bigcarl]

Watch the match, then speak to me at least. Over it

so how is it that our form slump corresponds almost exactly with the loss of our best forward?

btw, i did watch the match and our midfield was smashed. they lost heart when we couldn't apply any scoreboard pressure. no reward for effort. nothing up forward.

[Spinner]

Watch the match, then speak to me at least. Over it

so how is it that our form slump corresponds almost exactly with the loss of our best forward?

btw, i did watch the match and our midfield was smashed. they lost heart when we couldn't apply any scoreboard pressure. no reward for effort.

We miss Riewoldt no doubt. Every club would miss their CHF. Ours happens to be a freak...Hence a bigger impact.



And to address your last lone - our midfield couldnt win the ball to save themselves....For four quarters.

Saying they lost heart after we couldn't put on scoreboard pressure is an ignorant thing to say.

Do people seriously believe having Riewoldt in that team last night would have made a difference to the overall result? Yes, a reduced margin....But the result? Please - Carltons midfield destroyed us. The possession they got into their forwardline was free flowing - Maybe ask our defenders.....

The only time we got the ball last night was when Carlton turned it over in defense. Can't win a game playing like that.

[SainterK]

Watch the match, then speak to me at least. Over it

so how is it that our form slump corresponds almost exactly with the loss of our best forward?

btw, i did watch the match and our midfield was smashed. they lost heart when we couldn't apply any scoreboard pressure. no reward for effort. nothing up forward.

Lost heart?

Well I'd find that more of a worry than any potential forward line problems

Midfield could always contribute to the scoreboard themselves bigcarl....

[bigcarl]

Saying they lost heart after we couldn't put on scoreboard pressure is an ignorant thing to say.

let's not get abusive.

i thought we did have some opportunities to get back into the game, but with no one presenting at half forward or looking like kicking a goal carlton was able to dictate terms.

we've replaced our best forward with who, exactly?

[fingers]

"I still think we're at where the game has gone, with team defences," Lyon said

Can someone please explain what this means

Why is this so hard?

Overall the game has moved to a team based defence. And that is where the Saints are.

[bigcarl]

Midfield could always contribute to the scoreboard themselves bigcarl.

ours doesn't much. they are too accustomed to looking for riewoldt.

[iwantmeseats]

I think he is payed enough to be friggin concerned. I also think he is WAY smart enough to know exactly what to be concerned about, BUT will he be able to step out of his own stubberness to do something about.

[lewdogs]

I don't think the sky is falling in just yet, but we are definitely in a slump. We have played poorly the last three matches, and lost 2/3 as a result (got out of jail free against the bulldogs).

Some kind of changes are needed, whether it be in attitude or players, or both.

(Seems everyone has their own ideas about who isn't pulling their weight, so maybe it's a complete increase in overall team effort that is required. Seriously, where has our four quarter tackling pressure gone?!!!)

[SainterK]

Midfield could always contribute to the scoreboard themselves bigcarl.

ours doesn't much. they are too accustomed to looking for riewoldt.

Exactly, and he isn't there, so learn and quickly...

[Spinner]

Saying they lost heart after we couldn't put on scoreboard pressure is an ignorant thing to say.

let's not get abusive.

i thought we did have some opportunities to get back into the game, but with no one presenting at half forward or looking like kicking a goal carlton was able to dictate terms.

we've replaced our best forward with who, exactly?

Abusive? I describe your statement as ignorant and you call abuse? Gee wiz.


See some of the kicks that went into the forwardline - Absolutely pathetic. We couldnt hit a target going forward, even when players were under no pressure.

Players can present all they like - but when it comes in slow, or along the ground - well there is only so much some players can do.

[meher baba]

AFAIC Lyon's comments were spot on.

No need to panic. No need to drop Kosi. Just get on with it in our usual way. Beat the Bombers, if we can.

[bigcarl]

Saying they lost heart after we couldn't put on scoreboard pressure is an ignorant thing to say.

let's not get abusive.

i thought we did have some opportunities to get back into the game, but with no one presenting at half forward or looking like kicking a goal carlton was able to dictate terms.

we've replaced our best forward with who, exactly?

Abusive? I describe your statement as ignorant and you call abuse? Gee wiz.


See some of the kicks that went into the forwardline - Absolutely pathetic. We couldnt hit a target going forward, even when players were under no pressure.

Players can present all they like - but when it comes in slow, or along the ground - well there is only so much some players can do.

it wasn't an ignorant statement. quite reasoned actually. i hardly ever get into slanging matches on here nowadays, so let's not is what i am driving at.

truth is, i just see the situation differently to you and think we must commit some quality resources to the forward line to replace one of the best players in the competition.

[spert]

What RL is saying in a roundabout kind of way is that we were slack last night, we thought Carlton would be a walkover (Geelong did the same a couple of weeks back), and got done. I'm sure RL will give the necessary kicks up the bums to a few players who thought they would get the easy possessions last night, and watch out Essendon.

[bigcarl]

Midfield could always contribute to the scoreboard themselves bigcarl.

ours doesn't much. they are too accustomed to looking for riewoldt.

Exactly, and he isn't there, so learn and quickly...

or give them something to kick to. a viable and dangerous target such as goddard, for instance.

[saintsRrising]

AFAIC Lyon's comments were spot on.

No need to panic. No need to drop Kosi. Just get on with it in our usual way. Beat the Bombers, if we can.

We are in unusual agreement this week MB..

While the focus can be on the glory end...the forwards.

In our first loss our midfield got beaten...and against the Blues our midfield got really pumped.

Forwad line was not without fault...but sheez...against the blues we were down all over the park. Just changing who the forwards are would not fix things.


However, yes I do believe we need two marking targets up forward.

[bigcarl]

However, yes I do believe we need two marking targets up forward.

so the forward line is an issue?

[rexy]

Midfield could always contribute to the scoreboard themselves bigcarl.

ours doesn't much. they are too accustomed to looking for riewoldt.

Exactly, and he isn't there, so learn and quickly...

or give them something to kick to. a viable and dangerous target such as goddard, for instance.

Goddard spent periods in the forward line but did nothing, why?

Because we did not win the ball in the middle and we got hemmed in to the back half for long periods.

It does coincide with the loss of Roo and I have no doubt that his loss is an influencing factor, the confidence of the group is being comprimised by worrying about what to do when we get to the wing, however until we stop worrying about that and execute correctly between the back line and the HF line we cannot even asess our forward structure IMO.

Goddard is a fine replacement for Roo in the short term, he unfotunately is one of the only players who is still performing around the ground in the last 3 weeks, in short, when we need Goddard forward more than ever, the rest of the side is not allowing him to play there.

[bigcarl]

Goddard spent periods in the forward line but did nothing

he wasn't really allowed to settle into the role, though, was he. it was like two minute bursts.

when we need Goddard forward more than ever, the rest of the side is not allowing him to play there.

i reckon they're just going to have to lift and cover for him. we need to replace quality (riewoldt) with quality (goddard).

[Saintsfan]

AFAIC Lyon's comments were spot on.

No need to panic. No need to drop Kosi. Just get on with it in our usual way. Beat the Bombers, if we can.

We are in unusual agreement this week MB..

While the focus can be on the glory end...the forwards.

In our first loss our midfield got beaten...and against the Blues our midfield got really pumped.

Forwad line was not without fault...but sheez...against the blues we were down all over the park. Just changing who the forwards are would not fix things.


However, yes I do believe we need two marking targets up forward.

After watching the press conference on foxsports Ross Lyon seemed fine with what happened. It is not usually how we play. It most probably will be one of those games that the playing group just forgets. It was a dirty night and some on here need to stop reading into it.

[bigcarl]

After watching the press conference on foxsports Ross Lyon seemed fine with what happened. It is not usually how we play. It most probably will be one of those games that the playing group just forgets. It was a dirty night and some on here need to stop reading into it.

i hope you are right. geelong also were smashed by carlton and they seem to have come out of it okay.

[rexy]

Goddard spent periods in the forward line but did nothing

he wasn't really allowed to settle into the role, though, was he. it was like two minute bursts.

when we need Goddard forward more than ever, the rest of the side is not allowing him to play there.

i reckon they're just going to have to lift and cover for him. we need to replace quality (riewoldt) with quality (goddard).

They are going to need to lift full stop, but they havent. That is the point. If the run from defense and the midfield improves and the preassure and team defense lifts, Goddard can play long periods forward and kick multiple goals like in the Freo game.

Lets hope we see it. Heaven knows it is obviously Lyons preferred option, the 2 minute bursts he did play there were when we got back to close to striking distance, 2 minutes later when we were 2 more goals down he went back into the middle.

Gary Ablett Jnr could be the best forward pocket in the league, no surprise though that there rise to glory coincided with his rise to a premier midfielder.

[35...LEGEND]

Forward's...Midfield....Defense

All are being blamed on here.

We have problems on all lines.

Just hope Ross and Co. can pull something out of the hat and fast.

IMO we can't keep disrupting the backline......changes need to be in place for a while...need some stability at some stage.

IMO Fish and Gilb are a must down back,along with Bakes..............Blakey,Jimmy and Fish to sort out match ups.

Schnadzo to HBF , nice kick ,ala Guerra type roll.

Plenty of drive off HB and through the middle with Bj,Grammy,Joey,Schnadz,Gilb and Fish........if there ain't enough talent and smarts to get the ball forward from this lot,well,I give up.

think zac should go forward for a while,has shown signs of knowing how to be lead up forward....and lay some havy tackles young fella,like last year.

Farren Ray Ray forward also....can take a good grab for his size,stay as deep as possible,cruise the forward 30-35,side to side,up and back...supposed to have the engine to do it.
If it don't work,swap back with schnadz.

McQ,must play......run around,create another option around HF,defensive pressure.

Peake...get the ball at 70,run for 10-15,hit the leading forward or go for home.................forward pressure also..

Kos,Big Mac and Gardi to rotate through FF and Bench.

Need atleast 1 maybe 2 forwards to stay at home or as close to home(50 M area) as they can to provide options coming forward.

LOL,sounds easy aye........

Blake.....Gwilt...... Baker

Gilbert....Fisher.....Schneider

Gram.....Goddard....Joey

Peake..... Zac....... McQ

Milne...... Kos...... RayRay

Rucks
Gardiner......Dal......Hayes

Int...C.J...McEvoy...Armo....Raph (forward ,Back or Wing)

Out King...Steven ,Geary

In McEvoy...Peake...Armo.

Prob missed someone

[bigcarl]

Gary Ablett Jnr could be the best forward pocket in the league, no surprise though that there rise to glory coincided with his rise to a premier midfielder.

and riewoldt could have been a champion centre half back.

but goals win games, i guess, is the rationale for playing him as a forward.

you can see where i am going with this in regard to goddard.